Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
rambleon65
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby rambleon65 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:18 pm

Thanks for the responses.
Yeah, I see those points. I suppose it's a matter of asking if it's worth the extra debt.

Follow-Up Q: Would it be dumb to approach the transfer cycle with a Harvard-or-Stay attitude? The thought of uprooting from a city again into a new one just sounds bad, esp when I love the idea of a long term residence in this city?

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patogordo
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby patogordo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:20 pm

rambleon65 wrote:Thanks for the responses.
Yeah, I see those points. I suppose it's a matter of asking if it's worth the extra debt.

Follow-Up Q: Would it be dumb to approach the transfer cycle with a Harvard-or-Stay attitude? The thought of uprooting from a city again into a new one just sounds bad, esp when I love the idea of a long term residence in this city?

where else would you go?

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KD35
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby KD35 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:37 pm

For those who transferred with good schollys at previous school, how did you justify taking out an extra $120k+ in loans? Have near full ride to current school and transferring to say HSCCN would require me to take out tuition loans and have a substantial amount of debt which I don't have as of now.

Also, still struggling with how intense mass-mailing with exceptional grades can't get a 2L SA at a V20.
Last edited by KD35 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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patogordo
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby patogordo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:37 pm

KD35 wrote:For those who transferred with good schollys at previous school, how did you justify taking out an extra $120k+ in loans?

massive regret?

rambleon65
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby rambleon65 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:45 pm

patogordo wrote:
rambleon65 wrote:Thanks for the responses.
Yeah, I see those points. I suppose it's a matter of asking if it's worth the extra debt.

Follow-Up Q: Would it be dumb to approach the transfer cycle with a Harvard-or-Stay attitude? The thought of uprooting from a city again into a new one just sounds bad, esp when I love the idea of a long term residence in this city?

where else would you go?


Wherever worthy.

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northwood
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby northwood » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:03 pm

KD35 wrote:For those who transferred with good schollys at previous school, how did you justify taking out an extra $120k+ in loans? Have near full ride to current school and transferring to say HSCCN would require me to take out tuition loans and have a substantial amount of debt which I don't have as of now.

Also, still struggling with how intense mass-mailing with exceptional grades can't get a 2L SA at a V20.



By now you may ( or should) have a better idea of what you want to do, or more importantly where you want to end up. If your current school may make it more difficult/ or near impossible to get you there, then the extra money is more justifiable to spend. If you are in your ideal location, then you can use an acceptance to increase your negotiation power at your current school, and you should apply even if you don't want to go.

I would look at your debt ratio and your current outlook. If you have bad prospects, and your target transfer school may not provide a substantial boost to reaching your goals, then I would advocate staying ( as its better to end up with no job and no debt, than lots of debt and no job). But since you cant get a 2L SA at a v20, start EXPANDING your APPLICATION NET NOW.

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patogordo
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby patogordo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:09 pm

if you have a substantial scholarship at your current school this is really the wrong place to ask if transferring is worth it. most people who transfer do well at OCI. but your concern isn't "will i get a job if i transfer?" your concern is "will i get a job if i DON'T transfer?" for that you need to be talking to people who stayed at your school, not people who transferred.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby brotherdarkness » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:15 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KD35
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby KD35 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:57 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
KD35 wrote:For those who transferred with good schollys at previous school, how did you justify taking out an extra $120k+ in loans? Have near full ride to current school and transferring to say HSCCN would require me to take out tuition loans and have a substantial amount of debt which I don't have as of now.


It wasn't easy to plunge head-first into six figures of debt, but I knew what I wanted and knew that my current school was standing in the way. I had a chance to get break into my target market at a firm at the top of the Vault rankings and I decided to roll the dice. It was a lot easier knowing that my parents were behind me financially and otherwise, though.



Yea that's the big struggle: How I can accept trying to deal with massive amounts of debt for a sure chance of getting a good SA versus having a chance of getting a 2L SA but not having to take out the debt.

shock259
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby shock259 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:50 pm

That's the hardest question to answer. I think it should come down to the risk aversion of the person.

If you want a safer route, transfer. You'll pay more, but you'll basically be guaranteed a biglaw offer. Spend the first few years paying down your debt. Alternatively, if you are feeling lucky, stay at your old school with your big scholly and do your best to get a big firm offer. If you fail, you won't lose as much. But you'll be off the biglaw train forever (probably).

It's a personal opinion thing. But for FWIW, I would probably xfer to Harvard from BC/BU, but probably not to CLS/Chi/NYU/etc.

I will echo the point about mass mailing that was said before, though: it is hilariously ineffective and should not be relied on. I mass mailed after transferring to CLS and I still got almost no responses (out of probably 300 letters to NYC big firms). Radio silence. As the person before me said, the firms can easily fill their classes with OCI people from T14 schools, so many seem hesitant to go to mass mails unless something comes up. It's got to be a lot of work to sift through cover letters/resumes.

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yossarian
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby yossarian » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:00 pm

Thanks so much for this thread BD.

1) Really great information in here on OCI. I've read through it, but if anyone would like to comment more specifically on timing. Lottery. Logistics. Etc. I'd be appreciative. Obviously in terms of just the SA, the t14 name gives you a better shot and the fact that the employers are on your campus help alot. However, because you don't have the t14 grades to compete with your class, how did you feel going into OCI? Were you fighting for scraps? Are you only able to get lottery interviews? How does it work?

2) My main post-law school interest is biglaw in my Midwest secondary market. Assuming my T1 is in the region in which I want to work where my top preferred firms are actually at my schools OCI, I still see transferring as advantageous. Would others agree? We've seen the total # of biglaw SA positions in my city drop from 30-40 to around 15. That said, these ~15 still seem to be more regional than t14.

3) I transferred twice in undergrad. Complicated reasons but good reasons. I'm now in TFA. A good program (that's been great for me professionally), but WE that is unrelated to law. So, I'm worried that my resume already speaks too much to hopping around. From school to school, then 2 years in education, then law. I'm afraid transferring in law school will give employers another reason to worry that I'll jump ship, that I'm non-committal or something. In a long-conversation or a personal statement, I feel that my arc is easy (but a bit time-consuming) to explain. I don't think it speaks to being flighty but speaks to my journey toward knowing and improving myself. I doubt I'll have to show my undergrad transfers to firms. I already have taken them off my resume, leaving just the degree-granting school. So maybe I'm worrying too much, but is there a valid concern in a transfer contributing to employer risk assumption?

NOTE: I'm a 0L. Good scholarship offers at my T1 regionals. Would not go into this year assuming I'll transfer. I know the chance is unlikely. But I'm thinking ahead toward if I find myself in this situation after 1L fall, how do I navigate it.

Thanks again to all contributing.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby brotherdarkness » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:46 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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patogordo
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby patogordo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:23 pm

Fwiw, I transferred in UG and in LS, and had both my UGs on my resume (for somewhat unique reasons), and no one really seemed to care. The only firms where transferring hurt me were firms from my 1L LS region.

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KD35
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby KD35 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Another question for those who have transferred. While I know class rank isn't nearly as important at your school once you have 2L SA/summer jerb, where have you all fallen in rank-wise at the new school? Just curious. I know Arrow mentioned that he thinks most transfers do well, but how have you all done?

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patogordo
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby patogordo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:25 pm

KD35 wrote:Another question for those who have transferred. While I know class rank isn't nearly as important at your school once you have 2L SA/summer jerb, where have you all fallen in rank-wise at the new school? Just curious. I know Arrow mentioned that he thinks most transfers do well, but how have you all done?

probably around median

akg144
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby akg144 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:08 pm

2 questions:

1) How is your cumulative GPA and class rank dealt with at the new school do they combine the two or separate the two?

2) What happens to latin honors with transfer students - are they still eligible for Summa Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude, Order of the Coif at the new school or not?

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northwood
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby northwood » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:12 pm

akg144 wrote:2 questions:

1) How is your cumulative GPA and class rank dealt with at the new school do they combine the two or separate the two?

2) What happens to latin honors with transfer students - are they still eligible for Summa Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude, Order of the Coif at the new school or not?



1) You start back at zero, GPA wise. Your class rank is meaningless, as it cant transfer over, and your classes get noted as Pass-Transfer.( and they only transfer up to their maximum 1L credits)

2) Totally depends on the school. Some let you remain eligible, others do not.

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KD35
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby KD35 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:46 pm

patogordo wrote:
KD35 wrote:Another question for those who have transferred. While I know class rank isn't nearly as important at your school once you have 2L SA/summer jerb, where have you all fallen in rank-wise at the new school? Just curious. I know Arrow mentioned that he thinks most transfers do well, but how have you all done?

probably around median


Thanks for your estimation....
Anyone who actually knows and has something to base it on instead of just a blank prediction want to jump in?

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patogordo
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby patogordo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:15 pm

KD35 wrote:
patogordo wrote:
KD35 wrote:Another question for those who have transferred. While I know class rank isn't nearly as important at your school once you have 2L SA/summer jerb, where have you all fallen in rank-wise at the new school? Just curious. I know Arrow mentioned that he thinks most transfers do well, but how have you all done?

probably around median


Thanks for your estimation....
Anyone who actually knows and has something to base it on instead of just a blank prediction want to jump in?

I'm a 3L who transferred. Don't ask for info and then be a dick about it.

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stillwater
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby stillwater » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:19 pm

the transfers that I know do very well. it actually kind of surprises me.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby brotherdarkness » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:20 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jchance
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby Jchance » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:24 pm

KD35 wrote:
patogordo wrote:
KD35 wrote:Another question for those who have transferred. While I know class rank isn't nearly as important at your school once you have 2L SA/summer jerb, where have you all fallen in rank-wise at the new school? Just curious. I know Arrow mentioned that he thinks most transfers do well, but how have you all done?

probably around median


Thanks for your estimation....
Anyone who actually knows and has something to base it on instead of just a blank prediction want to jump in?


The secret to doing well as a transfer is to take lower workload (think 12-13 credits), pick high-average-gpa class (>3.6), then you can coast as a median student in class and still end up at top 25%. If you feel like gunning, you can get top 15% with some work.

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yossarian
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby yossarian » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:25 am

brotherdarkness wrote:There's a forum here for transfer students. Arrow has a guide which is very good, but it's missing a few things. I'm writing an additional guide which I'll post within the next couple of weeks. You're also welcome to PM me anytime should you have questions about 1L year, transferring, etc.


Wow. Amazing feedback. Thanks so much.

I really appreciate you guys sharing your experience and making yourselves available.

Regarding regional markets viewing leaving regional 1L school poorly: would this really hold true for YHS or just lower14? I want indianapolis. So I have a hard time believing YHS and probably uCHI maybe even NU since they are sort of regional would be problematic. I also have lived here my whole life (except UG which was in state). Am I missing something or might those schools work for my goals as transfer options?

Since I already threw my market out there, I'm looking at ND, WUSTL, or IUB if I go this cycle.
Last edited by yossarian on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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stillwater
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby stillwater » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:26 am

yossarian71 wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:There's a forum here for transfer students. Arrow has a guide which is very good, but it's missing a few things. I'm writing an additional guide which I'll post within the next couple of weeks. You're also welcome to PM me anytime should you have questions about 1L year, transferring, etc.


Wow. Amazing feedback. Thanks so much.

I really appreciate you guys sharing your experience and making yourselves available.

Regarding regional markets viewing regional 1L school poorly: would this really hold true for YHS or just lower14? I want indianapolis. So I have a hard time believing YHS and probably uCHI maybe even NU since they are sort of regional would be problematic. I also have lived here my whole life (except UG which was in state). Am I missing something or might those schools work for my goals as transfer options?

Since I already threw my market out there, I'm looking at ND, WUSTL, or IUB if I go this cycle.


im really unclear on what you are asking or what you just said.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: Transfer Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby brotherdarkness » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:29 am

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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