Yale 1L Tells All Forum

[Ti Malice]

Also, just to address something bakerymonster said about ideological diversity: Yale may lean pretty heavily left, but my small group of 16 students has seven self-described republicans/libertarians/conservatives. That implies to me there are more than 25 in the class.

Small groups are often unrepresentative of the class as a whole in some aspect or other. Last year there was one small group with seven or eight married people, another with five PhDs and a couple of ABDs, and another that was more than half K-JD (even though K-JDs only make up ~20% of each class).

[ScottRiqui]

Also, just to address something bakerymonster said about ideological diversity: Yale may lean pretty heavily left, but my small group of 16 students has seven self-described republicans/libertarians/conservatives. That implies to me there are more than 25 in the class.

Small groups are often unrepresentative of the class as a whole in some aspect or other. Last year there was one small group with seven or eight married people, another with five PhDs and a couple of ABDs, and another that was more than half K-JD (even though K-JDs only make up ~20% of each class).

Do you think that considerations like that are a factor in deciding who goes in which small group, and that contributes to the artificial "pockets" of similar students?

[LochnerMonster]

Also, just to address something bakerymonster said about ideological diversity: Yale may lean pretty heavily left, but my small group of 16 students has seven self-described republicans/libertarians/conservatives. That implies to me there are more than 25 in the class.

Small groups are often unrepresentative of the class as a whole in some aspect or other. Last year there was one small group with seven or eight married people, another with five PhDs and a couple of ABDs, and another that was more than half K-JD (even though K-JDs only make up ~20% of each class).

Do you think that considerations like that are a factor in deciding who goes in which small group, and that contributes to the artificial "pockets" of similar students?

I really have no idea how they assemble small groups, but here is my wild speculation:

I don't think it's intentional. The groupings seem like they're generally random, except that they try to do a 50/50 split for male/female. I don't think they control for race -- my small group is mostly white and I don't think it has any URM's.

In a random sorting, pockets of similar students probably just happen naturally.

Having talked to certain members of Cicero's conservative-heavy group, for example, it's my impression that at least several of them had nothing in their applications that would suggest their political affiliation.

[Ti Malice]

Also, just to address something bakerymonster said about ideological diversity: Yale may lean pretty heavily left, but my small group of 16 students has seven self-described republicans/libertarians/conservatives. That implies to me there are more than 25 in the class.

Small groups are often unrepresentative of the class as a whole in some aspect or other. Last year there was one small group with seven or eight married people, another with five PhDs and a couple of ABDs, and another that was more than half K-JD (even though K-JDs only make up ~20% of each class).

Do you think that considerations like that are a factor in deciding who goes in which small group, and that contributes to the artificial "pockets" of similar students?

I really have no idea how they assemble small groups, but here is my wild speculation:

I don't think it's intentional. The groupings seem like they're generally random, except that they try to do a 50/50 split for male/female. I don't think they control for race -- my small group is mostly white and I don't think it has any URM's.

In a random sorting, pockets of similar students probably just happen naturally.

Having talked to certain members of Cicero's conservative-heavy group, for example, it's my impression that at least several of them had nothing in their applications that would suggest their political affiliation.

My guess is the same.

[ZVBXRPL]

Can you guys rate the 1L's quality of writing (all types--non legal writing too)?
What did you Yalers write your PS/250 about? (care to PM it?)

[Cicero76]

Can you guys rate the 1L's quality of writing (all types--non legal writing too)?
What did you Yalers write your PS/250 about? (care to PM it?)

Uh that's actually kind of hard. I mean we have published novelists, a world-famous poet, and regular contributors to major media outlets such as the Atlantic and Slate in our class. So there is definitely a high level among at least some in the class. I haven't really read anything by random classmates, however, so I can't tell you the quality in general. My writing is awesome, of course

My 250 is in the Yale Enduring 250s thread

[tirakon]

Can you guys rate the 1L's quality of writing (all types--non legal writing too)?
What did you Yalers write your PS/250 about? (care to PM it?)

Uh that's actually kind of hard. I mean we have published novelists, a world-famous poet, and regular contributors to major media outlets such as the Atlantic and Slate in our class. So there is definitely a high level among at least some in the class. I haven't really read anything by random classmates, however, so I can't tell you the quality in general. My writing is awesome, of course

My 250 is in the Yale Enduring 250s thread

+1

[LochnerMonster]

Can you guys rate the 1L's quality of writing (all types--non legal writing too)?
What did you Yalers write your PS/250 about? (care to PM it?)

Uh that's actually kind of hard. I mean we have published novelists, a world-famous poet, and regular contributors to major media outlets such as the Atlantic and Slate in our class. So there is definitely a high level among at least some in the class. I haven't really read anything by random classmates, however, so I can't tell you the quality in general. My writing is awesome, of course

My 250 is in the Yale Enduring 250s thread

Cicero is right. There's no way to rate the 1L class's writing in general, but there are definitely plenty of people who write at the highest level. One of my classmates published a full length essay (not a student note!) in the Harvard Law Review's December issue, before he had taken any of his 1L finals.

That doesn't mean that everyone here writes at the same level. I'm sure there's a range in quality, although I'm sure even the people at the low end of the range write pretty well. For example, it would not surprise me if people who came in with Humanities graduate degrees write better than those with Science graduate degrees.

[LochnerMonster]

Bumping, because it's decision-season.

[achilles470]

Did you take Yale over a full-ride at CCN? If so, why? Any regrets?

[Sally91]

What has your favorite/worst experience of YLS been so far? Thank you!

[cee cee]

How do you get around? Do you have a bike? Do you have a car? Does anyone have a car?

[gottago]

edit

[jbagelboy]

I posted in the other thread but I guess if you're bumping this thread I'll ask here too:

I'm a K-JD. So I'm young and unattached. It's coming down to H/Y.

on the one hand, H is in the boston area and has all those other schools on campus and in boston (Wellesley etc)

on the other, Y is in NH pretty much by itself, 2 hours from NYC and farther from Boston. It's pretty damn hard to walk away from YLS but if I want to have a "fun" 3 years too, do you think YLS will be too limiting because 1. most students not K-JD, most are already married, etc, and 2. there's nowhere to turn to like Tufts BC BU, Boston generally, etc.

I actually talked to someone else from the C/o 16 who got HY+Hamilton and she went to HLS because she thought YLS wouldn't be what she was looking for socially. She was also a K-JD. she went to YUG actually

so yea if I were a 26 year old coming off a Rhodes, have a long-term S/O and everything, then yea YLS is the place to be. but if I'm just 21/22 then YLS doesn't look too promising.

a close analog in undergrad admissions would be Columbia/Penn Engineering vs MIT. Yea MIT is the better school, but Columbia and Penn might be funner places to spend 4 years while the education and career prospects are only slightly worse.

Yea I realize I'm going to LS at all to get a job not to have a good time but in my view (without having visited YLS yet, which I will), HY offer similar enough career prospects that secondary considerations like social scene, Boston, specialty in L&B start to matter.

So I guess I was asking what the YLS scene was. maybe I'll have different thoughts once I visit but I can't imagine it being close to HLS's social calendar/bars

O.o

[Cicero76]

Lol

[gottago]

edit

[LochnerMonster]

Did you take Yale over a full-ride at CCN? If so, why? Any regrets?

I did not. My numbers were solid for YLS, but not high enough to trigger CCN full scholarships.

I probably could have gotten full scholarships from schools lower down the totem pole, but I don't have any regrets about coming here. The opportunities here are really incredible. At least from my vantage point as a 1l, I feel confident the degree will open doors for me down the line. Obviously, though, I'll have to wait and see.

[LochnerMonster]

What has your favorite/worst experience of YLS been so far? Thank you!

Favorite experience: Very hard to pick. I've broken bread many times with various esteemed members of the judiciary. I've gotten photo ops with some super cool people. Mock trial was surprisingly fun.

Worst experience: Also hard to pick, but because my experience thus far has been overwhelmingly positive. I suppose it was disappointing that I didn't get into a very popular professor's small seminar. But a) I was #25 on the wait list and ended up missing it by one person and b) I'm writing a paper independently with the professor anyways and I'm now actually glad I can fully dedicate myself to the paper instead of the seminar.

[LochnerMonster]

I posted in the other thread but I guess if you're bumping this thread I'll ask here too:

I'm a K-JD. So I'm young and unattached. It's coming down to H/Y.

on the one hand, H is in the boston area and has all those other schools on campus and in boston (Wellesley etc)

on the other, Y is in NH pretty much by itself, 2 hours from NYC and farther from Boston. It's pretty damn hard to walk away from YLS but if I want to have a "fun" 3 years too, do you think YLS will be too limiting because 1. most students not K-JD, most are already married, etc, and 2. there's nowhere to turn to like Tufts BC BU, Boston generally, etc.

I actually talked to someone else from the C/o 16 who got HY+Hamilton and she went to HLS because she thought YLS wouldn't be what she was looking for socially. She was also a K-JD. she went to YUG actually

so yea if I were a 26 year old coming off a Rhodes, have a long-term S/O and everything, then yea YLS is the place to be. but if I'm just 21/22 then YLS doesn't look too promising.

a close analog in undergrad admissions would be Columbia/Penn Engineering vs MIT. Yea MIT is the better school, but Columbia and Penn might be funner places to spend 4 years while the education and career prospects are only slightly worse.

Yea I realize I'm going to LS at all to get a job not to have a good time but in my view (without having visited YLS yet, which I will), HY offer similar enough career prospects that secondary considerations like social scene, Boston, specialty in L&B start to matter.

So I guess I was asking what the YLS scene was. maybe I'll have different thoughts once I visit but I can't imagine it being close to HLS's social calendar/bars

I highly recommend you read my post on the previous page about my decision (as a K-JD) between Yale and Harvard. I believe that Yale offers significant advantages over Harvard in terms of employment opportunities and outcomes, and I also think that Harvard's "better location" is over-hyped. I say that as someone who has spent many years in New York, and strongly prefers a large metropolitan area. I'm also very skeptical that students at HLS hang out with students from other schools (either at Harvard or at other universities).

There is plenty going on at Yale socially (small group hang outs, bar review, etc), so I'm sure you'd be able to have a good time here. Additionally, grades are either non-existent or far less important at Yale, which makes life much less stressful.

Although this is certainly not the norm, I do have a couple of friends who don't do any work for class and instead concentrate on maintaining robust social lives. If that's what you're looking for, I doubt you could pull it off anywhere else without tanking your employment prospects.

I've had no issues making friends with people as a K-JD. Some of my friends came straight through like me, some have PhD's and are married with children. There is no divide.

[LochnerMonster]

How do you get around? Do you have a bike? Do you have a car? Does anyone have a car?

I walk everywhere. I don't have a bike, but some of my friends do. There are also some students who have cars, but they are often people with a spouse and/or kids.

New Haven is totally walkable.

Additionally, there are a variety of shuttle services that are very helpful for getting around.

[gottago]

edit

[SnakySalmon]

I'm hoping someone else offers their view on this too, but:

Since by OCI (or whatever it's called), YLS will have only 1 semester of grades, and even then the grades don't really distinguish anyone besides the top 10% who collects all the HPs, doesn't this just mean that getting a job is more reliant on good interviewing skills @ YLS than at anywhere else?

I'm a K-JD so it's not like I've survived McKinsey's 50-round interview. Not a master interviewer.
Would I be better served distinguishing myself via HLS's abundantly clear and unambiguous grading system?

or do interviewers give YLS kids a "pass" on this too?

YLS either makes it easier for me because it can get me to a callback that I'd need 6Hs @ HLS to get but then it's all up to my interviewing skills, or it may make it harder because then it's all up to my interviewing skills--once YLS takes me to the callback stage, I'm on my own.

Actually, the first semester at Yale is solely P/F, so you won't have any grade distinctions at all unless you fail a class. This means you can't distinguish yourself with grades, but I'm not sure you should assume you'd do that at Harvard either. Everyone at both schools is pretty smart and good at taking tests bro.

[Howl]

Hi LochnerMonster and Cicero!

First, thanks so much for offering to answer questions!! I was just admitted Yale and am also trying to choose between HYS so your replies have been very helpful!

A couple of quick questions:

1) What are the living options like, and what would you estimate is the COL in New Haven? Is it close to the 17k listed on the website, or do you think it runs over/under?
2) On ATL, one alum commented that once the second semester starts, everyone becomes more gunnery. In your experience, is this true? Or does the collaborative atmosphere continue into the second semester and beyond?

Again, thanks a bunch! Your thoughtful answers are really making Yale more and more appealing as my final choice

[LochnerMonster]

Hi LochnerMonster and Cicero!

First, thanks so much for offering to answer questions!! I was just admitted Yale and am also trying to choose between HYS so your replies have been very helpful!

A couple of quick questions:

1) What are the living options like, and what would you estimate is the COL in New Haven? Is it close to the 17k listed on the website, or do you think it runs over/under?
2) On ATL, one alum commented that once the second semester starts, everyone becomes more gunnery. In your experience, is this true? Or does the collaborative atmosphere continue into the second semester and beyond?

Again, thanks a bunch! Your thoughtful answers are really making Yale more and more appealing as my final choice

1. Living options are pretty varied here. Some people live in apartments, others rent houses. I'm reluctant to give you an exact COL here, because I think it depends on how frugally you choose to live. Housing will run you anywhere from $450 - $1000 a month, depending on a) where you want to live and b) how picky you are about living with roommates. I live about a nine minute walk from the law school and my rent is on the low end of the spectrum. As for food, during the week you never need to buy lunch here (there are multiple free lunch lectures every day) and you often don't need to buy dinner either (for the same reason). Unless you bring a car, there are probably no transportation costs. So again, I think the COL can be very low here, but obviously that depends on you. If you insist on living alone in down town, and buying your own lunch/dinner every day, you'll be looking at a very different figure.

2. I haven't found my second semester to be more gunnery, but obviously the twin looming menaces of grades and clerkship applications make life less carefree. People are busier and have less free time, but seem just as friendly and collaborative as last semester -- at least, in my experience.

[LochnerMonster]

I'm hoping someone else offers their view on this too, but:

Since by OCI (or whatever it's called), YLS will have only 1 semester of grades, and even then the grades don't really distinguish anyone besides the top 10% who collects all the HPs, doesn't this just mean that getting a job is more reliant on good interviewing skills @ YLS than at anywhere else?

I'm a K-JD so it's not like I've survived McKinsey's 50-round interview. Not a master interviewer.
Would I be better served distinguishing myself via HLS's abundantly clear and unambiguous grading system?

or do interviewers give YLS kids a "pass" on this too?

YLS either makes it easier for me because it can get me to a callback that I'd need 6Hs @ HLS to get but then it's all up to my interviewing skills, or it may make it harder because then it's all up to my interviewing skills--once YLS takes me to the callback stage, I'm on my own.

(Disclaimer: I'm a 1L so I haven't yet personally gone through FIP or the clerkship process. I do believe I have a good understanding of these processes based on many conversations with 2L's and 3L's, but I encourage you to ask people like Elston Gunn who have more experience than me.)

As you suggest, law school meritocracies are hydraulic. If you squeeze one part of the system, another part bulges. Grades matter less here, so things like interview skills (and professor recommendations for clerkships) matter more.

But here's the thing: It's really, really easy to get a law firm job out of Yale. Because there are so few Yalies, even people with straight P's can get an SA at a V10 or V15 at the very worst. Seriously. If you take a look at the Harvard OCI treads, this is simply not the case there. So yes, interviewing skills matter "more" here relative to other schools. But they don't matter much.

I am a K-JD who has not gone through any McKinsey-type interviews before, and I have talked with many 2L and 3L K-JD's. None of them had any trouble whatsoever getting jobs at the very best firms, and they didn't feel they needed to be interview ninjas to get Big Law.

I also want to emphasize to you that there is no way you can predict how you will do on law school exams. One of the smartest and most impressive people I've met here has terrible grades (although not to this person's detriment -- this person is so impressive that he/she was literally approached unsolicited by a feeder judge with a clerkship offer).