Market with the best net gain

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guano
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby guano » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:51 am

mr.hands wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:I'm not sure the answer is TX, I understand the tax reason but there are a lot of secondary markets where you can start at 125/130 and the cost of living is going to be much lower than in Houston/Dallas.


Yeah. Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh (?).

I'm on my phone so I won't link it but NALP prepares a list every year, and for the past several years Houston and Dallas have come out on top

UMich11
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby UMich11 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:32 am

Tom Joad wrote:Don't be a flake and go work somewhere with the intention of leaving. That's why millenials have the reputation as the worst generation.


It's the new norm.

J. D.
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby J. D. » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:40 am

If net gain includes great tropical weather, surf, fun, low COL with a BL salary, I’d shoot for Miami or a similar Florida market.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:44 am

J. D. wrote:If net gain includes great tropical weather, surf, fun, low COL with a BL salary, I’d shoot for Miami or a similar Florida market.


Miami has low COL?

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cotiger
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby cotiger » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:19 am

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Last edited by cotiger on Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Devlin
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Devlin » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:45 am

utlaw2007 wrote:
Houses inside the city are expensive. And once you get to the million dollar range, there really isn't much difference if at all. Price per square foot might be a little cheaper in Texas at that range. But I don't believe it is a significant difference unless it's a condo, condos being significantly more expensive in New York than in Texas.


Great point. This is a common misconception about Houston. People believe that you can get a (Mc)Mansion in Houston on the cheap. This is true, but you will be driving 40 minutes to Houston everyday for work. Shoot me now.

If you want to live near downtown in the Montrose/ River Oaks / West U area, cost of a home is not cheap.

Regarding drink prices. I once bought a double whiskey 7 down here and it costs $14. That is the most I have ever spent on a non-quality drink.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:55 am

Devlin wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:
Houses inside the city are expensive. And once you get to the million dollar range, there really isn't much difference if at all. Price per square foot might be a little cheaper in Texas at that range. But I don't believe it is a significant difference unless it's a condo, condos being significantly more expensive in New York than in Texas.


Great point. This is a common misconception about Houston. People believe that you can get a (Mc)Mansion in Houston on the cheap. This is true, but you will be driving 40 minutes to Houston everyday for work. Shoot me now.

If you want to live near downtown in the Montrose/ River Oaks / West U area, cost of a home is not cheap.



I don't really understand this. Most of the housing stock in NYC (at least the areas where most biglaw folk would live) is co-ops or condos. Co-ops are cheaper than condos but have higher monthly fees so it evens out. There aren't many "houses" at all unless you go out to queens or southern brooklyn (or have several million to drop on a brownstone). "Once you get into the million dollar range" is a ludicrous thing to even say about New York City, where the MEDIAN APARTMENT PRICE is something like $900K. I think I read somewhere that the price per square foot in NYC is like 5x that of Houston.

J. D.
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby J. D. » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:00 pm

t-14orbust wrote:
J. D. wrote:If net gain includes great tropical weather, surf, fun, low COL with a BL salary, I’d shoot for Miami or a similar Florida market.


Miami has low COL?


For $2K a month a really nice $400K house… there is ample inventory. Plus, there are plenty of foreclosures since Miami way overbuilt before ITE hit. Food and entertainment prices are affordable compared to the NE, or most any metro. Miami is basically the place to go if you’re into a tropical lifestyle. Major sports city too (usually one of their franchisees do very well… recently it has been the Heat).

utlaw2007
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:02 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
Devlin wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:
Houses inside the city are expensive. And once you get to the million dollar range, there really isn't much difference if at all. Price per square foot might be a little cheaper in Texas at that range. But I don't believe it is a significant difference unless it's a condo, condos being significantly more expensive in New York than in Texas.


Great point. This is a common misconception about Houston. People believe that you can get a (Mc)Mansion in Houston on the cheap. This is true, but you will be driving 40 minutes to Houston everyday for work. Shoot me now.

If you want to live near downtown in the Montrose/ River Oaks / West U area, cost of a home is not cheap.



I don't really understand this. Most of the housing stock in NYC (at least the areas where most biglaw folk would live) is co-ops or condos. Co-ops are cheaper than condos but have higher monthly fees so it evens out. There aren't many "houses" at all unless you go out to queens or southern brooklyn (or have several million to drop on a brownstone). "Once you get into the million dollar range" is a ludicrous thing to even say about New York City, where the MEDIAN APARTMENT PRICE is something like $900K. I think I read somewhere that the price per square foot in NYC is like 5x that of Houston.


I don't know the apartment prices in New York. But I have seen the prices and square footage of houses in New York. Where exactly in New York, I do not know. My point is that a house in River Oaks, Memorial, or Tanglewood, the three most expensive areas in Houston, are going to have houses that are just as big and just as expensive as mansions in New York where ever they may be.

utlaw2007
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:08 pm

All of the houses in River Oaks, Tanglewood, and Memorial are SEVERAL millions of dollars. Just about every house in West U and Bellaire is well over a million. Many are a few million. And some are several million. Those neighborhoods are the most centrally located in Houston. Apartments aren't houses. It's not like houses don't exist in New York. I don't know exactly where they are located but I never indicated. I'm comparing those.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:16 pm

My entire point was not to turn this into a pissing contest by saying Houston, Texas has houses just as expensive as New York. My point was saying that the difference for housing is not as much when you get to really expensive ranges for HOUSES. An apartment that you can buy is no different than a condo other than common areas and maintenance fees. And even that may be no different with some. And I already said that condos/apartments in New York are significantly more expensive than in Texas.

There is only so much money a rich person can have. If you look at expensive mansions all over the country, the difference in price based on location is not that great if you are talking about a location very near a big metropolitan area. Even mansions way out in Sweetwater, Sugarland, TX are several millions of dollars. And that is way out.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

utlaw2007
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:22 pm

Instead of "million dollar range," I should have said several million dollar range. Because at that range, there is not much difference.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:24 pm

How do you like Texas by the way? Major positives and negatives would be nice. I'm seriously considering looking into that market as well as Florida if anyone has any insight. So far, all the news coming out of florida re politics has not been good lol. I'm just wondering if I would be substantially less happy in these places than in CA.

utlaw2007
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:46 pm

t-14orbust wrote:How do you like Texas by the way? Major positives and negatives would be nice. I'm seriously considering looking into that market as well as Florida if anyone has any insight. So far, all the news coming out of florida re politics has not been good lol. I'm just wondering if I would be substantially less happy in these places than in CA.


I love Texas, but it is home for me so I'm very biased. To be honest, I'm not sure how much you would like it coming from a place like Cali. Even our big major metropolitan cities are rather conservative compared to California except for Austin. Behind Austin, I would go with Houston. And in some ways, Houston is far more progressive than Austin in terms of ethnic diversity for both residential and social activities.

Being from Cali, you should be used to sprawl. I'm used to it, but that seems to be a major complaint from outsiders who relocate here.

As far as Houston is concerned. We have a ton of blue chip fine arts, not like New York, of course, but better than most everywhere else. We're one of the few cities to have all four major performing art troupes, Theater, Opera, Ballet, and Symphony.

Our restaurants are awesome! Some suck. But we always get really good marks for our food. Our BBQ is second to none. Just don't go to any chain places. Their BBQ sucks.

We have three major professional sports franchises in the Texans, Rockets, and Astros.

We have a pretty robust night life. There are things to do. We are no Miami, New York, or Chicago. But we are probably better than everyone else in terms of things to do at night.

We are very ethnically diverse.

Drawbacks.

There are different areas that are not inclusive of everyone. Texas is still race obsessed to a certain degree.

Sprawl. We are way too spread out from what I here. You will be filling up often if you have a car that is not the greatest on gas.

Houston has no zoning laws. As a result, some really great areas are right next to some suspect areas. Where I live is where the most affluent people in the city shop. I see a super car of some sort multiple times a week. Yet, I also see homeless people on street corners every single day. Yes, there are some run down apartments and sections of the city right next to this area. There aren't like Detroit bad or anything like that. But they are bad compared to the area next to it which happens to be Tanglewood and it's surroundings.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:56 pm

Thanks for that, it was actually really helpful. Is the weather as bad as some people make it out to be? I'd much rather be in a warmer climate than a place like chicago or michigan lol

mojangles
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby mojangles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:58 pm

t-14orbust wrote:How do you like Texas by the way? Major positives and negatives would be nice. I'm seriously considering looking into that market as well as Florida if anyone has any insight. So far, all the news coming out of florida re politics has not been good lol. I'm just wondering if I would be substantially less happy in these places than in CA.


As a 0L I am certainly not the most qualified to say anything, but from all of my reading throughout the forums, it sounds like TX and FL are extremely difficult to break into without previous ties. You are from CA, right? I would love to have information on the ease/difficulty of breaking into additional major markets without previous ties, but everything I have read leads me to believe that NYC is the easiest, followed by DC, with Chicago a trailing third, and everywhere else is near impossible - please someone correct me if I am way off base here

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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby 062914123 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:59 pm

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t-14orbust
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:03 pm

bee wrote:
t-14orbust wrote:Thanks for that, it was actually really helpful. Is the weather as bad as some people make it out to be? I'd much rather be in a warmer climate than a place like chicago or michigan lol

Sorry to butt in, but I just wanted to say--I grew up in Los Angeles and lived in Houston for a while, and the weather isn't even a comparison. By far one of the worst things about living in Houston was the intense humidity. What specifically has you hesitant about TX? Might be able to answer some things about moving from CA to TX if you have any q's :)


lol damn, I guess we're just spoiled here in CA. I'm mainly worried about it just not being a good cultural fit, but I imagine that the bigger cities are pretty diverse. It's so hard to tell what may be attractive to me in other states, since I've lived in SoCal all my life. I did do a cross-country road trip which gave me a feel of VA and NOLA though. NOLA is the shit, btw. We did go when the weather was relatively nice though, not sure how bad it can get aside from hurricanes(too soon? lol).

blsingindisguise
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:10 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:All of the houses in River Oaks, Tanglewood, and Memorial are SEVERAL millions of dollars. Just about every house in West U and Bellaire is well over a million. Many are a few million. And some are several million. Those neighborhoods are the most centrally located in Houston. Apartments aren't houses. It's not like houses don't exist in New York. I don't know exactly where they are located but I never indicated. I'm comparing those.


Wrong. Even the high-end in NYC is going to be much, much more expensive than its counterpart in Houston, or much, much smaller.

utlaw2007
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:13 pm

t-14orbust wrote:Thanks for that, it was actually really helpful. Is the weather as bad as some people make it out to be? I'd much rather be in a warmer climate than a place like chicago or michigan lol


I went to undergrad up north. And I will tell you that Houston, Texas weather is absolutely terrible. It literally is like a sauna here in the summer. It's just ridiculously humid. August is just brutal every year. We're hot all year round except for late fall and all of winter.

But as hot as it gets down here, I'd much rather be down here than up in Chicago or Michigan. That cold weather freakin hurts.

Houston has a subtropical climate. I believe in the early days of Texas, the capitol used to be here. But they moved it to Austin because Houston was basically a swamp. The biggest problem with Houston is our humidity. And with that humidity comes with it tons of bugs. The flying tree roaches are the worst. There huge and they fly. They are the nastiest bugs in the animal kingdom as far as I'm concerned. They are mostly a problem at night. If you live around a bunch of trees, you have to be super aggressive about exterminating them. Otherwise, they will be paying you for a visit often.

We also have a really bad mosquito problem at different times of the year.

We get Thunderstorms often and we have bad flooding from time to time. But it's nothing that should factor into a decision on whether to live here or not. Just make sure you don't live right near the Gulf Coast if you want to keep your house from being blown away by a hurricane. I still do not understad why people buy beach houses on Galveston Island. Every 15 years, many of those houses are wiped out. Areas near the Gulf Coast like Friendswood, Kemah, League City, Clear Lake where NASA is are bad but not as bad. These are al suburbs of Houston. But there is still a small gamble.

utlaw2007
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:All of the houses in River Oaks, Tanglewood, and Memorial are SEVERAL millions of dollars. Just about every house in West U and Bellaire is well over a million. Many are a few million. And some are several million. Those neighborhoods are the most centrally located in Houston. Apartments aren't houses. It's not like houses don't exist in New York. I don't know exactly where they are located but I never indicated. I'm comparing those.


Wrong. Even the high-end in NYC is going to be much, much more expensive than its counterpart in Houston, or much, much smaller.


Dude, it's not that serious. If I'm wrong, I am wrong. The whole point was to say that renting or buying in New York was way more expensive, but the difference was not as drastic as it is n the low end. That's all I was trying to say.

I will concede. I am not concerned with trying to win a debate on a forum of current, prospective, and former law students. I'm just trying to throw in my two cents about cost of living. As far as being wrong, I don't give a sh&%$#. I have big boy lawyer debates to be concerned about where the stakes are actually high. I'm trying to help where I can and don't appreciate someone policing me in the process. So you need to dial down your tone, dude. Again. It's not that serious.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:39 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:
t-14orbust wrote:Thanks for that, it was actually really helpful. Is the weather as bad as some people make it out to be? I'd much rather be in a warmer climate than a place like chicago or michigan lol


I went to undergrad up north. And I will tell you that Houston, Texas weather is absolutely terrible. It literally is like a sauna here in the summer. It's just ridiculously humid. August is just brutal every year. We're hot all year round except for late fall and all of winter.

But as hot as it gets down here, I'd much rather be down here than up in Chicago or Michigan. That cold weather freakin hurts.

Houston has a subtropical climate. I believe in the early days of Texas, the capitol used to be here. But they moved it to Austin because Houston was basically a swamp. The biggest problem with Houston is our humidity. And with that humidity comes with it tons of bugs. The flying tree roaches are the worst. There huge and they fly. They are the nastiest bugs in the animal kingdom as far as I'm concerned. They are mostly a problem at night. If you live around a bunch of trees, you have to be super aggressive about exterminating them. Otherwise, they will be paying you for a visit often.

We also have a really bad mosquito problem at different times of the year.

We get Thunderstorms often and we have bad flooding from time to time. But it's nothing that should factor into a decision on whether to live here or not. Just make sure you don't live right near the Gulf Coast if you want to keep your house from being blown away by a hurricane. I still do not understad why people buy beach houses on Galveston Island. Every 15 years, many of those houses are wiped out. Areas near the Gulf Coast like Friendswood, Kemah, League City, Clear Lake where NASA is are bad but not as bad. These are al suburbs of Houston. But there is still a small gamble.


:shock: Having a higher COL doesn't sound so bad anymore

utlaw2007
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:59 pm

Haha. Yeah. If you were coming from Nebraska or something like that, then I'd say yes, do it. But coming from Cali where you have lived all of your life? I'm not sure you could make the adjustment. But it is possible and something you still might want to consider. I have known some people who have moved to Houston from Cali and they like it. Each person is different.

utlaw2007
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:00 pm

I just saw that you bolded the tree roach description. Haha! That is too funny!




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