Market with the best net gain

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beautyistruth
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Market with the best net gain

Postby beautyistruth » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:40 pm

Going off a point made in the thread about biglaw salaries in other countries, which markets have the best net gain after factoring in cost of living*, total taxes, and salaries? For example, it seems like other markets pay less than New York, but require far less money to sustain a reasonable lifestyle (obviously, people will vary in their lifestyle expectations). I've heard that's it's not impossible to have a fairly comfortable life in Texas with $40,000/year, but it sounds like that would be a pretty frugal life in NYC. Another thing I'd be interested in is factoring various tax rates, particularly in states like Texas (and Washington), where there's no income tax.

All in, which market would yield the best net gain?

*cost of living should include quality, though this could be tricky because I know definition of "quality" varies from person-to-person. Some people love the big city experience, some hate it, etc.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Tom Joad » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:40 pm

Probably just depends on the person.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:44 pm

statistically, it's Texas and not even close.

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Balthy
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Balthy » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:52 pm

I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000

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t-14orbust
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby t-14orbust » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:02 pm

. 0L post

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unlicensedpotato
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby unlicensedpotato » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:04 pm

Texas. BB and V&E pay basically identical as NY firms (It's a little weird because BB has levels instead of years but it works out to be essentially equal).

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:06 pm

Yea VE just updated their pay scale this year to match NYC, so the scale tops out at 280. I believe that's higher than most Texas firms.

NYstate
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:08 pm

But don't overlook the point that many people end up in New York because New York has the most jobs. And not everyone has ties to Texas.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:13 pm

NYstate wrote:But don't overlook the point that many people end up in New York because New York has the most jobs. And not everyone has ties to Texas.


The ties thing is a little overrated for the big 3 in TX. I worked with quite a few people this summer who lacked ties. It seems that the better the school, the fewer ties needed.

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jtabustos
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby jtabustos » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:23 pm

beautyistruth wrote:
*cost of living should include quality, though this could be tricky because I know definition of "quality" varies from person-to-person. Some people love the big city experience, some hate it, etc.


In strictly financial terms, I'd bet Texas is best. But, of course, less biglaw jobs.

I wouldn't mind living in NYC for a few years. But spending my life there, buying a home, and building a family...I'm not sure.

From CA...where we have grass. :mrgreen: Lived in Houston for 1 year as well for middle-school and Virginia for 3.5 years in elementary.

I enjoy being able to walk in a suburb vs. bumping into people in shoulder-to-shoulder walking traffic the moment I leave the door in NYC. Enjoy relaxing at the beach, walking outdoors in open spaces, having "space" in my house.......I have a friend from SoCal who hates it here and would love to live in NYC, so it's just person dependant.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:08 pm

superdingle2000 wrote:I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000

Vinson

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Balthy
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Balthy » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:19 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000

Vinson



Thanks. 0L mistake.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:24 pm

superdingle2000 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000

Vinson



Thanks. 0L mistake.


As long as we're pointing out his mistakes...

VE Houston isn't the only VE office that starts at 160.

VE isnt the only firm in TX that starts at 160. Texas market is 160.

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Balthy
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Balthy » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:37 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000

Vinson



Thanks. 0L mistake.


As long as we're pointing out his mistakes...

VE Houston isn't the only VE office that starts at 160.

VE isnt the only firm in TX that starts at 160. Texas market is 160.


Lesson in humility.. I didn't know that either. I could have sworn reading somewhere that VE is the only firm in Houston to pay 160. In any case, I'm years away from having to actually research this stuff myself.

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danquayle
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby danquayle » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:57 pm

I believe someone tracked average lawyer salary by cost of living as compared to NYC. I believe DC came out the clear winner. But the Texas cities did well too. Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Here

http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2010


I was wrong. It apparently is Dallas now. Maybe I looked at an older one. The slow down in Federal spending has hurt DC a little.

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scifiguy
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby scifiguy » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:05 am

danquayle wrote:I believe someone tracked average lawyer salary by cost of living as compared to NYC. I believe DC came out the clear winner. But the Texas cities did well too. Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Here

http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2010


I was wrong. It apparently is Dallas now. Maybe I looked at an older one. The slow down in Federal spending has hurt DC a little.


Does anyone know what % of biglaw jobs are located in which cities? ...Like.....is it 35%NYC, 15% DC, 10% Los Angeles, etc. etc. ?

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:53 am

superdingle2000 wrote:I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000

Those cost of living calculators don't really deal well with NYC because the proportions of your income that go to different areas are so different. Rent will be much higher obviously, but then your transportation is only maybe $150 a month, depending on how many cabs you take, which is a lot cheaper than owning a car in Texas. And when you're just out of school, one of your biggest expenses will probably be student loans, which cost the same no matter where you live. Having said that, you still get way more for your money in Houston, no doubt. I'm just skeptical it's like having more than twice the income.

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Devlin
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Devlin » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:36 am

superdingle2000 wrote:I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000


For someone who cannot get something as simple as Vinson down, your opinion on Texas does not matter.


Houston's and Dallas' legal markets have done better than most lately and there are quite a bit of firms here that pay market. Market in Texas goes a long, long way. Also, no state income tax.

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danquayle
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby danquayle » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:48 pm

Devlin wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000


For someone who cannot get something as simple as Vinson down, your opinion on Texas does not matter.


Houston's and Dallas' legal markets have done better than most lately and there are quite a bit of firms here that pay market. Market in Texas goes a long, long way. Also, no state income tax.


Market in Austin would probably be the best possible situation for a young lawyer. Cool city, cheap living and a booming new economy market.

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SWEDE LAW
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby SWEDE LAW » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:51 pm

All major big law firms in TX are on NY lockstep scale as of this year: BB, VE, Bracewell, AK, etc. It's a boom town in Houston.

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Balthy
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Balthy » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:55 pm

Devlin wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:I think Vincent and Elkins in Houston starts associates off at the NYC rate, so if you land that you'll be livin the dream. Well, actually, I guess it'll still suck since you're in Texas.

According to this site, 160k in Houston would be equivalent to 340k in NYC. If that's accurate, holy shit.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-livin ... -ny/160000


For someone who cannot get something as simple as Vinson down, your opinion on Texas does not matter.


Houston's and Dallas' legal markets have done better than most lately and there are quite a bit of firms here that pay market. Market in Texas goes a long, long way. Also, no state income tax.



As you would have seen in the later posts, I'm a 0L. I've literally read the name VE in one article over three years ago (and maybe heard it when I was 10 years old and Enron was goin down)... I hope your eidetic memory serves you well, douche bag.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby t-14orbust » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:27 pm

Anyone know how hard it might be to move from biglaw in texas to california big law as a former california resident and HYSCCN student? I'd love to pay off my loans in Texas and move to California lol

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ArtistOfManliness
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:31 pm

t-14orbust wrote:Anyone know how hard it might be to move from biglaw in texas to california big law as a former california resident and HYSCCN student? I'd love to pay off my loans in Texas and move to California lol


wouldn't we all?

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Balthy
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Balthy » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:39 pm

t-14orbust wrote:Anyone know how hard it might be to move from biglaw in texas to california big law as a former california resident and HYSCCN student? I'd love to pay off my loans in Texas and move to California lol


I'd like to do the same but have another worry: Would it be hard for a Texas resident to work in Houston/Dal/Aus for 3-5 yrs and then move to Cali/NY? How about moving to a smaller market like Seattle?

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Tom Joad
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Re: Market with the best net gain

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:48 pm

Don't be a flake and go work somewhere with the intention of leaving. That's why millenials have the reputation as the worst generation.




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