Transferring/dropping

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theInnerCircle
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Transferring/dropping

Postby theInnerCircle » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:31 am

Hey everybody,

I am an 0L, not super recent undergrad, set to start in a couple of weeks. Now, I have always fancied myself as an artist (been producing music independently for nearly 7 years now, and even received a scholarship to a music school) but I also have an interest in law, psychology, and reading and writing.

That aside, I have decided to attend a law school in the far corner of an unfamiliar state, but with a decent scholarship at least. Yet my lingering concerns are that I won't get along with others (I don't do well in hypercompetitive situations), overall culture of the school, and lack of diversity. If worse comes to worst, I'm thinking of transferring, or dropping out all together. It's the bs that scares me, not the work.

My options for transfer are UO or Lewis & Clark (although the latter seems waaaay overpriced) so that I can be a bit closer to family and friends. I figure if I'm gonna suffer, minus well suffer around familiars. That and any care to comment on NW schools?

And lastly, do you think I will be able to get a true feel for law school in my first semester/year alone? Basically, when was your moment of "oh shit, this is it"? For example, I wish I had chosen linguistics as my major instead of psychology, but I didn't realize this until after I had met and befriended a handful of the students in my senior year.

I feel like I've learned more about law school by my recent poking around on teh internetz than when I spoke to recent grads/younger attorneys. That worries me. Anyway, I look forward to hearing your opinions.

BigZuck
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:39 am

You haven't even started school yet and you're already considering transferring or dropping out?

Dude, don't go to law school right now.

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theInnerCircle
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby theInnerCircle » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:49 am

I guess I should elaborate a bit more, but I'm considering transferring since I was accepted to all the schools I liked most. It's just that I ended up choosing the one with the slightly better financial package.

So I would like to hear from someone who has transferred/been in a similar situation.

lmr
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby lmr » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:59 am

theInnerCircle wrote:I guess I should elaborate a bit more, but I'm considering transferring since I was accepted to all the schools I liked most. It's just that I ended up choosing the one with the slightly better financial package.

So I would like to hear from someone who has transferred/been in a similar situation.


you can't plan on transferring based on the schools you were accepted to. You might bomb your 1L year and be stuck where you are. You can insulate yourself from the bs and competition...it's not that hard. If you are unhappy with your school choice then don't attend and reapply next year to another school. Btw if shouldn't aimlessly enter law school...it's draining and you'll just drop out if you don't have goals to motivate/sustain you.

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theInnerCircle
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby theInnerCircle » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:12 am

lmr wrote:you can't plan on transferring based on the schools you were accepted to. You might bomb your 1L year and be stuck where you are. You can insulate yourself from the bs and competition...it's not that hard. If you are unhappy with your school choice then don't attend and reapply next year to another school. Btw if shouldn't aimlessly enter law school...it's draining and you'll just drop out if you don't have goals to motivate/sustain you.


thanks for your input.

Any other takers on my previous questions? Such as studying in the pacific northfresh? Transfers?

hiima3L
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby hiima3L » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:53 am

Don't go.

If you're not absolutely 100% committed to going, you should not go. It is a life-altering decision to go to law school and you should be all or nothing with it.

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InferenceOptional
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby InferenceOptional » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:05 am

I don't know if enrolling with the intent to drop out is necessarily bad. For instance, I enrolled in a top 14 at sticker (would not have been able to get a scholarship irrespective of LSAT), and intended to drop out if I was below median because I tried to be as logical as possible in this process. However, enrolling with the intent to drop out if you don't like the competitive nature of law school is really bad. I don't really think it is that competitive, and the type of competition (at least at my top 14) is not backstabbing or cut throat. It really is just each person trying to be the best they can, which motivates everyone to work harder. In this economy, even working at McDonalds is competitive, and I think other fields where there's lack of mutual respect have more underhandedness. Law is just less secretive about its competitiveness - you know going in your class rank matters, but if you worked in sales, management and even the arts you are always being ranked relative to your peers. Don't make any mistake about it. When there are not jobs for everyone, competition will always inherently be present.

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hoos89
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:22 am

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Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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theInnerCircle
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby theInnerCircle » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:36 pm

Thanks to the last two posters. I still like law and being studious and hardworking. By your posts, I figure it comes down most to school culture. I may try a transfer only if I dont like where I'm at/it feels too backstabbing.

That being said, anyone able to answer questions about studying in the pac northwest? Thanks.

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MormonChristian
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby MormonChristian » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:51 pm

hoos89 wrote:. To transfer up you need to be towards the top of your class, and to lateral you still usually need to be in the top 1/3 or so. .


I disagree he could probably transfer to Oregon or L&C as long as he/she is in good standing. Especially L&C. You might even be able to transfer after one semester, that seems to be the newest trend.

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MormonChristian
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby MormonChristian » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:08 pm

theInnerCircle wrote:Hey everybody,

I am an 0L, not super recent undergrad, set to start in a couple of weeks. Now, I have always fancied myself as an artist (been producing music independently for nearly 7 years now, and even received a scholarship to a music school) but I also have an interest in law, psychology, and reading and writing.

That aside, I have decided to attend a law school in the far corner of an unfamiliar state, but with a decent scholarship at least. Yet my lingering concerns are that I won't get along with others (I don't do well in hypercompetitive situations), overall culture of the school, and lack of diversity. If worse comes to worst, I'm thinking of transferring, or dropping out all together. It's the bs that scares me, not the work.

My options for transfer are UO or Lewis & Clark (although the latter seems waaaay overpriced) so that I can be a bit closer to family and friends. I figure if I'm gonna suffer, minus well suffer around familiars. That and any care to comment on NW schools?

And lastly, do you think I will be able to get a true feel for law school in my first semester/year alone? Basically, when was your moment of "oh shit, this is it"? For example, I wish I had chosen linguistics as my major instead of psychology, but I didn't realize this until after I had met and befriended a handful of the students in my senior year.

I feel like I've learned more about law school by my recent poking around on teh internetz than when I spoke to recent grads/younger attorneys. That worries me. Anyway, I look forward to hearing your opinions.


You might want to look up "bait and switch" when it comes to scholarships. Find out if your school is one of the worst perpetrators.
I am assuming you are headed to a very low ranked law school. Remember almost everyone there will be wanting to transfer especially as your school's REAL job prospects become known.
Your school will have a pretty good idea that you want to transfer. Thus, their job will be to do everything they can to make sure you don't transfer, while it is your job to do everything you can to transfer. Obviously, the school has more experience and skill then you do in this game.
Some law schools literally have meeting to prevent students from transferring.

To answer your questions. Most law schools are different. Each Prof is looking for something different. I know a Tort Prof. who told all her students not to worry about specifically listing the elements on the tort test because everyone knows them and they will be included in the analysis. The students got the grades back and half the test grade was whether or not you specifically listed the elements before starting the analysis. When questioned she said that she couldn't find any other way to differentiate the grades. The high school went to the guy with severe ADHD who was too busy playing games to listen in class. He never got anything higher than a C on any other test.

I know plenty of people who thought they were the perfect law student until they got their grades back one month after their final exam.

20141023
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby 20141023 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:15 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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InferenceOptional
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby InferenceOptional » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:36 pm

MormonChristian wrote:
theInnerCircle wrote:Hey everybody,

I am an 0L, not super recent undergrad, set to start in a couple of weeks. Now, I have always fancied myself as an artist (been producing music independently for nearly 7 years now, and even received a scholarship to a music school) but I also have an interest in law, psychology, and reading and writing.

That aside, I have decided to attend a law school in the far corner of an unfamiliar state, but with a decent scholarship at least. Yet my lingering concerns are that I won't get along with others (I don't do well in hypercompetitive situations), overall culture of the school, and lack of diversity. If worse comes to worst, I'm thinking of transferring, or dropping out all together. It's the bs that scares me, not the work.

My options for transfer are UO or Lewis & Clark (although the latter seems waaaay overpriced) so that I can be a bit closer to family and friends. I figure if I'm gonna suffer, minus well suffer around familiars. That and any care to comment on NW schools?

And lastly, do you think I will be able to get a true feel for law school in my first semester/year alone? Basically, when was your moment of "oh shit, this is it"? For example, I wish I had chosen linguistics as my major instead of psychology, but I didn't realize this until after I had met and befriended a handful of the students in my senior year.

I feel like I've learned more about law school by my recent poking around on teh internetz than when I spoke to recent grads/younger attorneys. That worries me. Anyway, I look forward to hearing your opinions.


You might want to look up "bait and switch" when it comes to scholarships. Find out if your school is one of the worst perpetrators.
I am assuming you are headed to a very low ranked law school. Remember almost everyone there will be wanting to transfer especially as your school's REAL job prospects become known.
Your school will have a pretty good idea that you want to transfer. Thus, their job will be to do everything they can to make sure you don't transfer, while it is your job to do everything you can to transfer. Obviously, the school has more experience and skill then you do in this game.
Some law schools literally have meeting to prevent students from transferring.

To answer your questions. Most law schools are different. Each Prof is looking for something different. I know a Tort Prof. who told all her students not to worry about specifically listing the elements on the tort test because everyone knows them and they will be included in the analysis. The students got the grades back and half the test grade was whether or not you specifically listed the elements before starting the analysis. When questioned she said that she couldn't find any other way to differentiate the grades. The high school went to the guy with severe ADHD who was too busy playing games to listen in class. He never got anything higher than a C on any other test.

I know plenty of people who thought they were the perfect law student until they got their grades back one month after their final exam.

I'd say this is rare. Normally 1L professors are experienced, and know what they want. Ignoring their instructions about how to do well on their test is probably the single stupidest thing you can do. Kid playing video games sounds badass.

Ti Malice
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby Ti Malice » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:31 am

theInnerCircle wrote:
lmr wrote:you can't plan on transferring based on the schools you were accepted to. You might bomb your 1L year and be stuck where you are. You can insulate yourself from the bs and competition...it's not that hard. If you are unhappy with your school choice then don't attend and reapply next year to another school. Btw if shouldn't aimlessly enter law school...it's draining and you'll just drop out if you don't have goals to motivate/sustain you.


thanks for your input.

Any other takers on my previous questions? Such as studying in the pacific northfresh? Transfers?


You've gotten the only good advice possible. Never go to law school hoping or planning to transfer. Never go to a law school that you would be unhappy to graduate from, because the odds of your being able to transfer up are pretty strongly against you. So if you're unhappy with your choice, absolutely don't go. If you don't plan to live and work very close to this school (which appears to be a TTT), don't go. I assure you that this degree will not travel.

Were your numbers (or at least your LSAT) above the medians at your preferred schools? People this cycle and last have asked schools from which they had withdrawn to reinstate the original offer with some success. It's obviously very late in the game, but schools are desperate to maintain their medians. The worst the other schools could say is no.

And if they do say no, wait until next year at the very least.

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theInnerCircle
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby theInnerCircle » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:20 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
MormonChristian wrote:You might want to look up "bait and switch" when it comes to scholarships. Find out if your school is one of the worst perpetrators.

I was going to say the same thing. In case you aren't sure what MormonChristian is talking about, there are a lot of schools (mostly lower-ranked ones) that will offer great-sounding scholarships, but they will come with a bunch of strings attached. If you don't meet the conditions, your scholarship may either be reduced or eliminated. If you're at such a school, this means that you're really fucked because your grades aren't good enough to transfer out, nor are they good enough for you to get a decent job, so you're left with the options of dropping out or continuing to pay for a worthless degree. Many lower-ranked schools use techniques like "section stacking" to ensure that not all of those who entered with scholarships keep them.

We could provide more advice if we knew specifically which school you are planning on attending, but if you want to keep that to yourself, schools are now required by the ABA to post information about scholarship retention on their sites.


Thanks for this info! @Mormonchristian as well. I believe I have to maintain between a 2.5 and 2.9. Could you or anyone else elaborate on section stacking? Experience with it, etc?

I received an o.k. scholarship from UO; not a full ride (can't remember if it was bait & switch). What sorta stopped me from going there was that I wasn't going to qualify for residency (wish I did; that's another story). Practicing/living in the NW/West Coast/anywhere west of the Rockies is preferred. Anywhere between Seattle and Eugene is greatly preferred on the west coast. I hope ya'll understand that I would like to remain a bit more anon on here so that's all I will say. :)

Again, I appreciate the introductions to all these new terms, etc. Also, if theres still anyone out there who has been to a NW school (especially UO, L&C, Seattle U, UW), your comments/opinion will be greatly appreciated as well.

Also, to further help your understanding, I'm not the biglaw type of person (in case you didn't get that from my first post). I'm not looking to make partner/schmooze in a firm. I may even end up enjoying where I'm at, but I always want to keep abreast of my options and such.

20141023
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby 20141023 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:13 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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theInnerCircle
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby theInnerCircle » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:16 am

Nice with the links, kappycaft1! Much appreciated.

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anacharsis
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby anacharsis » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:20 am


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sap
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby sap » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:11 pm

If the reason you didn't go to UO was no residency, but you might consider transferring there in the future, you should probably ask them if they might reinstate. I don't know about UO, but often you can get some retention scholarships after your first year if you do well. You also may be able to meet residency requirements in 2/3 year, reducing your attendance cost.

If you end up at the current school, (a) transfer is not guaranteed, as many people have said (b) scholarship retention isn't guaranteed, and (c) your best transfer case will involve no scholarships at your 2L/3L school, and probably no residency during 2L either. When planning to transfer after first year (which isn't guaranteed), the cummulative cost of attendance for you could very well be higher accepting just a first-year scholarship at a lower ranked school. You're not guaranteed a transfer, may well lose your scholarships if you can't transfer, and even if you do transfer, you're essentially guaranteed to pay sticker at the new school.

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theInnerCircle
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby theInnerCircle » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:41 pm

thanks for your reply! ^^

in reassessing my UO option, theres a possibility that I could get residency because of immediate family paying taxes and becoming an OR homeowner this year. If thats the case, even if I dont get that same scholly they first offered, if i study hard and am able to make the transfer, 2L will be cheaper (than it currently would be).

The plan so far is to study my ass off, and continue my options research in the meantime.

20141023
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby 20141023 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:20 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cinephile
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby cinephile » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:58 pm

If you didn't get a financial package you liked at UO or L&C, then retake the LSAT and try again next year. Getting into those schools as a 1L is not the same as getting in as a 2L. And like others said, if you're thinking of transferring right now, you definitely shouldn't go.

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theInnerCircle
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby theInnerCircle » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:03 pm

Right, I realize that last statement makes it sound like Im dying to leave my school, but im not. If I do feel so, Im pretty sure i will try for UO. That requires further investigating whether i will qualify for in state.

Its not like any of the schools Im lookin at are phenomenal. Theyre just suited for where I would like to live (sea or pdx).

i would think that there are a lot of ppl who are just happy they even got into a lower tier. my friend is at LC and she said she met a lot of ppl from out of state like from cali and tx. cant imagine they were dying to go to LC, but im sure they were just happy they got in and will probably sit tight where they are. :| i dont think 99% are tryin to leave.

@cinephile, LC gave a crap financial pkg, but like i said, im longer thinkin about there.

20141023
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby 20141023 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:21 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Transferring/dropping

Postby BigZuck » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:36 pm

You're doing it wrong. Do it right. Retake/reapply.




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