Law school difficulty

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
scifiguy
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:41 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby scifiguy » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:24 pm

hichvichwoh wrote:3. The take-home issue spotter (casual): just like an in-class issue spotter but the professor gives you more time (maybe 8 hours) to think about and write out your answers. This increases the quality of all the exams submitted, so really it benefits people who can produce quality work but don't work well under a tight time restraint.

4. The take-home issue spotter (butt-fucking): just like the in-class issue spotter, except the content and duration of the exam is much longer. These suck, and can be a major endurance test.


How much more time is given and how much longer is the exam in the anal coitus take-home issue spotter versus the casual take-home issue spotter?

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby spleenworship » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:54 pm

scifiguy wrote:
hichvichwoh wrote:3. The take-home issue spotter (casual): just like an in-class issue spotter but the professor gives you more time (maybe 8 hours) to think about and write out your answers. This increases the quality of all the exams submitted, so really it benefits people who can produce quality work but don't work well under a tight time restraint.

4. The take-home issue spotter (butt-fucking): just like the in-class issue spotter, except the content and duration of the exam is much longer. These suck, and can be a major endurance test.


How much more time is given and how much longer is the exam in the anal coitus take-home issue spotter versus the casual take-home issue spotter?


A prof at our school gave his class 23 hours and 59 minutes to do a 34 page single spaced hypo.

I think one person reported over 50 different issues.

User avatar
hichvichwoh
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:21 am

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby hichvichwoh » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:00 pm

scifiguy wrote:
hichvichwoh wrote:3. The take-home issue spotter (casual): just like an in-class issue spotter but the professor gives you more time (maybe 8 hours) to think about and write out your answers. This increases the quality of all the exams submitted, so really it benefits people who can produce quality work but don't work well under a tight time restraint.

4. The take-home issue spotter (butt-fucking): just like the in-class issue spotter, except the content and duration of the exam is much longer. These suck, and can be a major endurance test.


How much more time is given and how much longer is the exam in the anal coitus take-home issue spotter versus the casual take-home issue spotter?


at our school, you get the same time for any take-home exam (8 hours), it's just that some professors go the "this gives everyone more time to write a great exam!" route and others go the "more time means more suffering!" route. Realistically it's a spectrum, but there was one take-home exam that only took me maybe 4 of the 8 hours at a very relaxed pace, and another one where I only took breaks to use the bathroom, ate lunch at my computer, typed frantically the whole time, and STILL didn't have time to write everything I wanted to.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:47 pm

PatriotP74 wrote:
kalvano wrote:Texas requires one portion be handwritten, but it's a small portion.


How is SMU? Its actually where I'd like to go!


What would you like to know? Feel free to PM me any questions so as not to clutter up this thread.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:48 pm

scifiguy wrote:Someone said earlier in thread that their prof. found A finals easy to distinguish from the rest, but found the differences between B/B- ...C+/C, etc. more arbitrary.

Would anyone possibly have a copy of what an A versus B+ or C+ versus C final would look like?

Curious about the quality difference being talked about.


You can Google sample exam answers. But at this point, you won't know what you're looking at.
Last edited by kalvano on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
cinephile
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby cinephile » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:40 pm

scifiguy wrote:Someone said earlier in thread that their prof. found A finals easy to distinguish from the rest, but found the differences between B/B- ...C+/C, etc. more arbitrary.

Would anyone possibly have a copy of what an A versus B+ or C+ versus C final would look like?

Curious about the quality difference being talked about.


I think it would really depend on the class, professor, etc. For example, in my section, nearly everyone understood property and had a very good idea about what the professor expected because we regularly did practice problems in class that were taken directly from his previous exams. So that curve was really tight with little difference between the high and low grades because we all wrote the same thing after having had all that practice. And our same section also took a legislation course with a brand new professor and had no access to prior exams from which to practice, so that exam probably had more divergent answers and showed a difference between an A and B, etc.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby spleenworship » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:54 pm

cinephile wrote:
scifiguy wrote:Someone said earlier in thread that their prof. found A finals easy to distinguish from the rest, but found the differences between B/B- ...C+/C, etc. more arbitrary.

Would anyone possibly have a copy of what an A versus B+ or C+ versus C final would look like?

Curious about the quality difference being talked about.


I think it would really depend on the class, professor, etc. For example, in my section, nearly everyone understood property and had a very good idea about what the professor expected because we regularly did practice problems in class that were taken directly from his previous exams. So that curve was really tight with little difference between the high and low grades because we all wrote the same thing after having had all that practice. And our same section also took a legislation course with a brand new professor and had no access to prior exams from which to practice, so that exam probably had more divergent answers and showed a difference between an A and B, etc.


This. My A in Contracts was a matter of 2 points because the professor just hammered us with examples from his test. Conversely in Torts where the professor taught nothing and we all had to learn it ourselves my B was 11 points from a C+, 9 from a B-, and 8 points from a B+.

JDot
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:41 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby JDot » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:05 pm

with regards to these take home tests, hypothetically speaking...if you had a relative/friend who was a successful attorney or law student, couldn't you just meet up with them and do the test together aka giving you a significant advantage...obviously, you would be cheating, but I find it would be pretty hard to get caught....am I missing something here?

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:08 pm

JDot wrote:with regards to these take home tests, hypothetically speaking...if you had a relative/friend who was a successful attorney or law student, couldn't you just meet up with them and do the test together aka giving you a significant advantage...obviously, you would be cheating, but I find it would be pretty hard to get caught....am I missing something here?



I actually don't think a practicing attorney would be much help. Law school exams bear very little relationship to actual practice, and you'd likely miss a lot by having someone who is used to going from point A to point G look at it, because your professor wants you to go from A to B to C to D to E to F to G.

User avatar
hoos89
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby hoos89 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:15 pm

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22846
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:19 pm

hoos89 wrote:
JDot wrote:with regards to these take home tests, hypothetically speaking...if you had a relative/friend who was a successful attorney or law student, couldn't you just meet up with them and do the test together aka giving you a significant advantage...obviously, you would be cheating, but I find it would be pretty hard to get caught....am I missing something here?


This would be more or less useless, and potentially a disadvantage (particularly if there was non-zero time pressure). Essentially, anyone who hasn't had that class from that professor isn't going to be a ton of help. If they haven't also been drilling for that exam in the last couple of weeks, they also aren't going to be sharp enough to give you much of an advantage.

I agree. I mean, you can just get outlines from 2Ls and 3Ls who've taken the class and learn those, you'll benefit from their knowledge and it's totally kosher.

(plus honor codes yada yada yada)

User avatar
cinephile
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby cinephile » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:33 pm

Besides, professors often want you to use their own wording. If someone is helping you out who didn't have that specific professor, they're not going to be able to lay thing out in the manner this professor wants.

Just accept that this is not 100% in your control and you can't predict beforehand how you'll do. If you can't accept that, you'll just drive yourself crazy. Study hard and study smart and don't worry about cheating or other ways of beating the system.
Last edited by cinephile on Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
scifiguy
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:41 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby scifiguy » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:34 pm

How do you go about approaching 2L and 3Ls to get these materials and advice when you're only a 1L (esp. first semester)?

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby spleenworship » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:45 pm

hoos89 wrote:
JDot wrote:with regards to these take home tests, hypothetically speaking...if you had a relative/friend who was a successful attorney or law student, couldn't you just meet up with them and do the test together aka giving you a significant advantage...obviously, you would be cheating, but I find it would be pretty hard to get caught....am I missing something here?


This would be more or less useless, and potentially a disadvantage (particularly if there was non-zero time pressure). Essentially, anyone who hasn't had that class from that professor isn't going to be a ton of help. If they haven't also been drilling for that exam in the last couple of weeks, they also aren't going to be sharp enough to give you much of an advantage.


Not to mention if you get caught you could be expelled. Honor codes and whatnot.

scifiguy wrote:How do you go about approaching 2L and 3Ls to get these materials and advice when you're only a 1L (esp. first semester)?



You talk to them. What you do is you go up to some 2L you've met and you say "Hey, did you have [Professor Y] for Contracts? Yeah? Let me buy you a beer or a coffee! Hey, so now that you are drinking the beer/coffee I bought you, can you tell me what he likes on his exam? And do you have an outline for his class? You do? The one you got from some person who is now a 3L and that you modified very slightly? And you'll email that to me? SWEET."

User avatar
scifiguy
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:41 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby scifiguy » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:48 pm

To follow-up, how would you know that 2/3L's outlines and advice are any good (what if he/she's like bottom of the class)?

User avatar
hichvichwoh
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:21 am

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby hichvichwoh » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:55 pm

scifiguy wrote:To follow-up, how would you know that 2/3L's outlines and advice are any good (what if he/she's like bottom of the class)?


If you're getting them from a bank, the answer is you don't know. If you're getting them from a person, usually it's ok to ask what grade they got in the class if they're already willing to share their outline.

User avatar
hichvichwoh
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:21 am

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby hichvichwoh » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:57 pm

JDot wrote:with regards to these take home tests, hypothetically speaking...if you had a relative/friend who was a successful attorney or law student, couldn't you just meet up with them and do the test together aka giving you a significant advantage...obviously, you would be cheating, but I find it would be pretty hard to get caught....am I missing something here?


One of my professors this year actually "caught" one of her students doing that. Basically she just read the exam, thought to herself that it seemed like a lawyer wrote it, the school conducted an investigation (comparing the exam to the student's other writings) and the student was expelled/never ever going to be a lawyer ever.

User avatar
hoos89
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby hoos89 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:02 am

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby kalvano » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:03 am

If I give an outline to someone, I always qualified it with my grade for the course, or at least expected to be asked.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby spleenworship » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:18 am

kalvano wrote:If I give an outline to someone, I always qualified it with my grade for the course, or at least expected to be asked.


This.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Law school difficulty

Postby spleenworship » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:19 am

hichvichwoh wrote:
JDot wrote:with regards to these take home tests, hypothetically speaking...if you had a relative/friend who was a successful attorney or law student, couldn't you just meet up with them and do the test together aka giving you a significant advantage...obviously, you would be cheating, but I find it would be pretty hard to get caught....am I missing something here?


One of my professors this year actually "caught" one of her students doing that. Basically she just read the exam, thought to herself that it seemed like a lawyer wrote it, the school conducted an investigation (comparing the exam to the student's other writings) and the student was expelled/never ever going to be a lawyer ever.


This happened at my school with like 5 of the students working together on the take-home. They all got in serious serious trouble.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests