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A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
ralph
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Postby ralph » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:20 am

Thanks!
Last edited by ralph on Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bronte
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby Bronte » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:23 am

Prepare to be mocked for this. Anyway, hopefully you get into Stanford and then you can plan to do a firm in California that is big into tech stuff. Cybersecurity law sounds a little too niche.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:26 pm

You could go into cybercrime - I had a prof who worked for DOJ doing that.

legalmindedfella
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby legalmindedfella » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:35 pm

Ralph, obviously with your stats you could be going to HYS, which tends to settle the matter. But if you want, pm me.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:39 pm

Just an FYI. This is actually a growing area. Firms, the DOJ, think tanks, and companies are hiring for it right now. It has potential to be what the FCPA was a couple years ago when the SEC and DOJ started unpredictable enforcement.

TooOld4This
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby TooOld4This » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:18 pm

Bronte wrote:Prepare to be mocked for this. Anyway, hopefully you get into Stanford and then you can plan to do a firm in California that is big into tech stuff. Cybersecurity law sounds a little too niche.


Anyone mocking should be mocked.

This is a rapidly developing area and not really that niche. You have consumer protection issues (CFPB/FTC), criminal issues (DOJ), securities issues (SEC) on the federal side. Then you can have private litigation following breaches. In M&A and contract work, there can be a lot of issues related to data security (and clients are becoming increasingly aware of potential liability). You can layer in international issues, both in enforcement and private litigation. Many states like to get in on the act as well.

Coming from HYS with background in the area, you could develop a research agenda that crosses a number of more traditional areas of law and wind up going the academic route as well.

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sinfiery
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:02 pm

A good amount of room in cyber privacy laws for research/academia and will be an important aspect of government policies going forward.

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LFH_intheflesh
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby LFH_intheflesh » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:27 pm

FYI, law students don't specialize. Lawyers do, by becoming part of a specific practice group within a firm and/or by developing relationships with clients who need that kind of work.

If you know you want to be a lawyer, I'd try to go to Stanford or maybe Cal w/ $$$ and worry about the specific area of law later.

TooOld4This
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby TooOld4This » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:40 pm

LFH_intheflesh wrote:FYI, law students don't specialize. Lawyers do, by becoming part of a specific practice group within a firm and/or by developing relationships with clients who need that kind of work.

If you know you want to be a lawyer, I'd try to go to Stanford or maybe Cal w/ $$$ and worry about the specific area of law later.


FYI, the OP specifically asked about 3-4 years out, which would indicate s/he is concerned with specializing as a practitioner. Also, FYI, law students can, and do, specialize and doing so can help both employment prospects and one's ability to avoid the doc review/scut work death spiral once hired. Expressing a legitimate interest in a field that is a match to a firm can give you an edge in hiring. Spending 2L/3L taking courses/research/writing in an area can increase the chances that a particular practice group will go to bat for you in hiring and then, once you start full time, pluck you out of general first-year assignments. Also, FYI, OP's stats are high enough that s/he will likely have their pick of schools. When choosing between peers, it absolutely makes sense to look at the ciriculumn.

Specialization is not required, but it is certainly possible and is often helpful.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:56 am

TooOld4This wrote:
LFH_intheflesh wrote:FYI, law students don't specialize. Lawyers do, by becoming part of a specific practice group within a firm and/or by developing relationships with clients who need that kind of work.

If you know you want to be a lawyer, I'd try to go to Stanford or maybe Cal w/ $$$ and worry about the specific area of law later.


FYI, the OP specifically asked about 3-4 years out, which would indicate s/he is concerned with specializing as a practitioner. Also, FYI, law students can, and do, specialize and doing so can help both employment prospects and one's ability to avoid the doc review/scut work death spiral once hired. Expressing a legitimate interest in a field that is a match to a firm can give you an edge in hiring. Spending 2L/3L taking courses/research/writing in an area can increase the chances that a particular practice group will go to bat for you in hiring and then, once you start full time, pluck you out of general first-year assignments. Also, FYI, OP's stats are high enough that s/he will likely have their pick of schools. When choosing between peers, it absolutely makes sense to look at the ciriculumn.

Specialization is not required, but it is certainly possible and is often helpful.


This.

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dj_spin
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby dj_spin » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:26 am

I would recommend highlighting this interest in your Yale application as Yale has a very robust and active academic cohort pushing the boundaries of cybersecurity law, policy and regulation. It's called the Information Society Project. Google it.

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LFH_intheflesh
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby LFH_intheflesh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:39 am

TooOld4This wrote:
LFH_intheflesh wrote:FYI, law students don't specialize. Lawyers do, by becoming part of a specific practice group within a firm and/or by developing relationships with clients who need that kind of work.

If you know you want to be a lawyer, I'd try to go to Stanford or maybe Cal w/ $$$ and worry about the specific area of law later.


FYI, the OP specifically asked about 3-4 years out, which would indicate s/he is concerned with specializing as a practitioner. Also, FYI, law students can, and do, specialize and doing so can help both employment prospects and one's ability to avoid the doc review/scut work death spiral once hired. Expressing a legitimate interest in a field that is a match to a firm can give you an edge in hiring. Spending 2L/3L taking courses/research/writing in an area can increase the chances that a particular practice group will go to bat for you in hiring and then, once you start full time, pluck you out of general first-year assignments. Also, FYI, OP's stats are high enough that s/he will likely have their pick of schools. When choosing between peers, it absolutely makes sense to look at the ciriculumn.

Specialization is not required, but it is certainly possible and is often helpful.


That's not specialization bro.

It's one of the most common misconceptions among 0Ls that lawyers specialize in school the same way engineers and doctors do. There is no cybersecurity residency. The ABA doesn't certify you for cybersecurity practice. Everything you mentioned is just stuff to impress a hiring committee with, if the school he chooses itself isn't enough. I don't think he needs too many fancy resume lines to "give him an edge in hiring" if goes to Stanford like I suggest. (FYI).

And I'd wager he could achieve everything you have in mind by ignoring cybersecurity entirely during his entire time at Harvard, Stanford, or Yale except when choosing firms for OCI.

ETA: To clarify what I mean by that last statement: I'd be willing to wager that 3-4 years in a large firm's tech practice area, the firm he gets from OCI, would have equal or greater effect than whatever other crap you suggest he do.

treeey86
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby treeey86 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:39 am

This is a legit field. I have friends that are 2nd year attorneys who work in this field. One is at a big law firm and recently just joined the small but growing department for cyber security. The other is an assistant attorney general prosecuting cyber crime. So opportunities exist at both the state and private level. Note that both went to T30 schools and were not top of the class. The field is indeed growing, and it is possible to break in without the best grades - However, they both did have a demonstrated interest in the field and applicable intern experience during law school.

TooOld4This
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby TooOld4This » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:23 pm

LFH_intheflesh wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
LFH_intheflesh wrote:FYI, law students don't specialize. Lawyers do, by becoming part of a specific practice group within a firm and/or by developing relationships with clients who need that kind of work.

If you know you want to be a lawyer, I'd try to go to Stanford or maybe Cal w/ $$$ and worry about the specific area of law later.


FYI, the OP specifically asked about 3-4 years out, which would indicate s/he is concerned with specializing as a practitioner. Also, FYI, law students can, and do, specialize and doing so can help both employment prospects and one's ability to avoid the doc review/scut work death spiral once hired. Expressing a legitimate interest in a field that is a match to a firm can give you an edge in hiring. Spending 2L/3L taking courses/research/writing in an area can increase the chances that a particular practice group will go to bat for you in hiring and then, once you start full time, pluck you out of general first-year assignments. Also, FYI, OP's stats are high enough that s/he will likely have their pick of schools. When choosing between peers, it absolutely makes sense to look at the ciriculumn.

Specialization is not required, but it is certainly possible and is often helpful.


That's not specialization bro.

It's one of the most common misconceptions among 0Ls that lawyers specialize in school the same way engineers and doctors do. There is no cybersecurity residency. The ABA doesn't certify you for cybersecurity practice. Everything you mentioned is just stuff to impress a hiring committee with, if the school he chooses itself isn't enough. I don't think he needs too many fancy resume lines to "give him an edge in hiring" if goes to Stanford like I suggest. (FYI).

And I'd wager he could achieve everything you have in mind by ignoring cybersecurity entirely during his entire time at Harvard, Stanford, or Yale except when choosing firms for OCI.

ETA: To clarify what I mean by that last statement: I'd be willing to wager that 3-4 years in a large firm's tech practice area, the firm he gets from OCI, would have equal or greater effect than whatever other crap you suggest he do.


Not an 0L, bro. Also not a law student who hasn't even been through OCI, but is "willing to wager" on how to get hired into a particular field or to maximize employment options.

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LFH_intheflesh
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby LFH_intheflesh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:30 pm

jesus i was explaining why I said what I did to the OP not calling you a 0l.

Whaaaatever dude.

TooOld4This
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby TooOld4This » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:31 pm

LFH_intheflesh wrote:jesus i was explaining why I said what I did to the OP not calling you a 0l.

Whaaaatever dude.


[sincerely trying to be helpful here, since you seem to be about to jump onto OCI. Maybe none of this applies to you, but it might give you some things to think about as you start figuring out what you want to do]

1. OP's post is ambiguous as to whether he meant "specialize" in law school or to aim to "specialize" as a practitioner, so your fixation on the term seems very misplaced.

2. People do "specialize" in law school all the time, using that term generally and not attaching the heightened meaning you seem to give it.

3. People at HYS may be even more likely to specialize (again using that term in the general sense) than at other schools, since they don't need to worry as much having a resume that is too (whatever) and these schools are filled with people following their bliss.

4. When you are interested in very specific practice areas it is helpful to be able to demonstrate interest and knowledge about the field. Specialzed practice areas generally have steep learning curves, have a limited number of people in them, and don't take on junior associates regularly (or take on very few each year).

5. Getting an SA with a firm that has a practice group you are interested in is not a golden ticket to the type of work you want to do. Yes, if you go to a boutique that only does that kind of law, you are pretty much guaranteed a spot, but there can be a lot of politics and luck in navigating your way to your preferred practice group.

6. Having a demonstrated interest at OCI can get you callbacks scheduled with the practice group you are interested in. This can help both your chances of getting an offer and set you up to get real interaction with the group as an SA.

7. Having picked courses in your eventual desired "specialty" during 2L can also help you during your SA. Like I mentioned before, some practice groups don't bring on a ton of new associates. Cybersecurity is the type of area that is not likely to be wanting to pull more than one or two new associates in. (if it is a group, or have more than a few juniors given that type of work within a larger practice group) The group may give out a bunch of beauty contest assignments over the summer, but very few summers will be seriously considered for joining its ranks.

8. Firms have different ways of treating first years. Generally speaking, though, it is much easier to come in with a group already waiting for your arrival than it is to swim out of wherever you initially get dumped.

9. Going to HYS will undoubtably help in getting hired, but it doesn't do much to get you where you want to go within the firm. "The firm" cares about saying it was able to hire X number of elite law school grads. Practice groups care about getting good people to do their work. What you know and what you've done matter a whole lot more than where you went to school. The more specialized the practice group, the more this is true. Hopping into a specialty down the road is often difficult, because you won't have the experience to justify your billable rate.

10. OP has the scores for HYS. If there is even a hint of wanting academia down the line, developing a research/writing agenda early is immensely valuable.

If you want general corporate or general lit, the courses you take don't matter much. However, when you are looking at a specialized practice, they become much more important. These groups are not generally as highly leveraged as others and the skills are not as easily transferable. Getting partners willing to invest in you, and getting them to invest in you early is important.

As general advice, when you get your SA offer, get as much information as you can about your firm before you start. If there is a practice area you want try out, reach out to partners when you get there (after you've gotten a general sense of the "right" way to do this). If you find a group you like, let the people you work with know this and that you like the work. Seek 3L guidance from them. You want to come back as a first year with people that want to work with you. It is not a pretty sight to see new associates show up on their first day and find they have been dumped on project y or group x because they need warm bodies and as many of the people that have been around for awhile as possible have found refuge elsewhere.

letsdoit
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby letsdoit » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:52 pm

My DC firm has a top-ranked privacy/cybersecurity practice, its definitely a thing.

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guano
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Re: Cybersecurity law?

Postby guano » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:42 pm

LFH_intheflesh wrote:FYI, law students don't specialize. Lawyers do, by becoming part of a specific practice group within a firm and/or by developing relationships with clients who need that kind of work.

If you know you want to be a lawyer, I'd try to go to Stanford or maybe Cal w/ $$$ and worry about the specific area of law later.
if you know exactly what you want, it can help. Some firms hire specific to their needs, and would rather pick someone interested in an area where they have a need, than some kid who doesn't know what s/he wants. It's also a great excuse for contacting partners at firms, which again is helpful.

Again, firm specific, but, if OP knows what s/he wants, that too is a plus




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