JD ----> Management Consulting

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robotrick
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:53 am

Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby robotrick » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:00 am

igo2northwestern wrote:I'm not sure what exits are like 7-10 years down the line, but I'll give it a shot for the 3-5. A McK engagement manager or BCG project leader might in an exceptional case become the director of X division at a $XX mm startup. The more frequent exit though is into in-house strat positions. These pay well and have lifestyles probably similar to in-house legal positions. People also move in smaller numbers into hedge funds and PE. I'd estimate it at ~10%, compensation is ~2-3x consulting $. The MBB exits are varied, such that I can't really put my finger on what the norm is. You see people becoming managers across lots of industries, including nonprofit, tech, finance, fashion, health, etc.

Since I mentioned some of the positives, here is the other side of the story. The thing I'm told by a lot of alums is that the value of MBB is a bit oversold -- you get knocked for not ever having industry experience, and once you get into a position, it's pretty much all on you. The MBB alum network is koolaid for the most part.

So it doesn't sound too different from V10 other than the obvious law vs. business distinction (suppose you could go from law to business in some cases). You even have the same complaint about lack of real experience.

I guess it makes sense.

Thanks

AllTheLawz
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:20 pm

Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby AllTheLawz » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:37 am

robotrick wrote:
igo2northwestern wrote:I'm not sure what exits are like 7-10 years down the line, but I'll give it a shot for the 3-5. A McK engagement manager or BCG project leader might in an exceptional case become the director of X division at a $XX mm startup. The more frequent exit though is into in-house strat positions. These pay well and have lifestyles probably similar to in-house legal positions. People also move in smaller numbers into hedge funds and PE. I'd estimate it at ~10%, compensation is ~2-3x consulting $. The MBB exits are varied, such that I can't really put my finger on what the norm is. You see people becoming managers across lots of industries, including nonprofit, tech, finance, fashion, health, etc.

Since I mentioned some of the positives, here is the other side of the story. The thing I'm told by a lot of alums is that the value of MBB is a bit oversold -- you get knocked for not ever having industry experience, and once you get into a position, it's pretty much all on you. The MBB alum network is koolaid for the most part.

So it doesn't sound too different from V10 other than the obvious law vs. business distinction (suppose you could go from law to business in some cases). You even have the same complaint about lack of real experience.

I guess it makes sense.

Thanks


Ehh I'll offer some clarification on this. I think what the poster is referring to is the general lack of Profit-Loss (P&L) responsibilities in consulting. As a consultant you don't actually manage a product-line or its accompanying team. As a result, the most natural transition is to an industry job that also lacks P&L responsibilities. This means you will most often be recruited for an industry role in Strategy, Brand Management, Business Development, Business Analytics, Customer Experience, Finance (if you have the background), etc. Essentially, you most likely will be in a group that reports to the SVP of Marketing/Strategy rather than a COO or president of a product division (varies by company structure).

I'm not sure what this really should mean for any given individual but often its really just used as a counterpoint to the "MBB opens all doors" hysteria. You will still have plenty of options if you perform decently but there are some definite limitations that narrow the field somewhat. This is nothing like a V10 corporate dept were really your only exit options are somewhere on the ladder in the GC office of company X. Also, transitions directly from a law firm to a desirable business role in industry pretty much never happen unless the CEO is your uncle or something.

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hellojd
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Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby hellojd » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:31 am

igo2northwestern wrote:If what OP or anyone is interested in is being a career consultant, then none of this perceived prestige stuff really matters because the criteria is completely different from what I thought it would be (compensation is fine, and travel is to be expected).

But the purpose of consulting, in my opinion, really boils down to two things: high(er) compensation and exits. The compensation at the brand consulting firms is usually better from the beginning to any advancement stage (I don't know how your boutique was, but from what I've heard from people who've worked at boutiques, their salaries were usually lower OR slightly higher to justify the cut in prestige), and exits are unparalleled because of perceived prestige. For MBB vs. others, the difference in perceived prestige is significant. And between larger brands and smaller brands, it is also very significant. What supports this is the fact that the exits are vastly better at the name brand firms. This isn't to say that you can't get good exits out of boutiques, but a pay cut + perhaps more time spent is likely to be in the equation.

As for the actual work, operations is operations. But at brand firms, there are more opportunities to work for better clients. This is an important distinction, because while at MBB you do work in no-name-city every now and then, you really really don't want to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere for 6 months. Further, at MBB, there are more opportunities, substance-wise, to work on more challenging strategy engagements.

I agree that Vault doesn't accurately paint a picture of the consulting profession, just as Vault doesn't paint a perfect picture of the legal profession (see Dovel & Luner), but it's a decent starting point for recruitment. Similar to Vault law rankings, except there are no Williams & Connolly/Munger/Irell-type firms that are hidden in the Vault consulting rankings. MBB is a distinct tier. And this is coming from someone who isn't really a prestige whore (after all, igo2northwestern..).


Yeah, this poster explained what I was trying to say in a much better fashion. While there may be smaller boutique consulting firms, they simply don't hit as hard as MBB and the 2nd tier. While obviously every associate at MBB isn't whispering into the ears of F100 CEOs on a regular basis, the quality of the work, the importance of the work, and the type of client is GENERALLY better than what you see at the no-names. And if you care about exits, the type of exit op you get from a place like McKinsey is just unparalleled. I have a family member that is an alum, and 20 years later he swears he gets clients and referrals just on the basis of working there.

Also, sure, if you work for a boutique that services one type of client then maybe you have an easy exit to that client, but similar to the law firm that services only one specific niche or client is that the basket you want to put all your eggs in? MBB opens literally any strategy position up in any type of industry you can demonstrate a fit for.

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jingosaur
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Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby jingosaur » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:01 am

It's not uncommon for consultants at second tier to fall into some awful long term project where they're doing staff aug work or software testing. In the 3 years at my company, I've spent 2 and a half years doing software testing and the other 6 months have been cool strategy projects or strategy training. But because the partners I work for are infamous for selling software testing and staff aug projects and most of my projects get taken over by people in India, there are really no exit options when you get into a shitty project other than going to a lesser known consulting firm.

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t-14orbust
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Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:06 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone. Guess I should start working on my case-interview skills.

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lhanvt13
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Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby lhanvt13 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:13 pm

t-14orbust wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone. Guess I should start working on my case-interview skills.

+1
Any recommendations on how to prep/best prep material would be appreciated.

robotrick
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:53 am

Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby robotrick » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:19 pm

AllTheLawz wrote:
robotrick wrote:
igo2northwestern wrote:I'm not sure what exits are like 7-10 years down the line, but I'll give it a shot for the 3-5. A McK engagement manager or BCG project leader might in an exceptional case become the director of X division at a $XX mm startup. The more frequent exit though is into in-house strat positions. These pay well and have lifestyles probably similar to in-house legal positions. People also move in smaller numbers into hedge funds and PE. I'd estimate it at ~10%, compensation is ~2-3x consulting $. The MBB exits are varied, such that I can't really put my finger on what the norm is. You see people becoming managers across lots of industries, including nonprofit, tech, finance, fashion, health, etc.

Since I mentioned some of the positives, here is the other side of the story. The thing I'm told by a lot of alums is that the value of MBB is a bit oversold -- you get knocked for not ever having industry experience, and once you get into a position, it's pretty much all on you. The MBB alum network is koolaid for the most part.

So it doesn't sound too different from V10 other than the obvious law vs. business distinction (suppose you could go from law to business in some cases). You even have the same complaint about lack of real experience.

I guess it makes sense.

Thanks


Ehh I'll offer some clarification on this. I think what the poster is referring to is the general lack of Profit-Loss (P&L) responsibilities in consulting. As a consultant you don't actually manage a product-line or its accompanying team. As a result, the most natural transition is to an industry job that also lacks P&L responsibilities. This means you will most often be recruited for an industry role in Strategy, Brand Management, Business Development, Business Analytics, Customer Experience, Finance (if you have the background), etc. Essentially, you most likely will be in a group that reports to the SVP of Marketing/Strategy rather than a COO or president of a product division (varies by company structure).

I'm not sure what this really should mean for any given individual but often its really just used as a counterpoint to the "MBB opens all doors" hysteria. You will still have plenty of options if you perform decently but there are some definite limitations that narrow the field somewhat. This is nothing like a V10 corporate dept were really your only exit options are somewhere on the ladder in the GC office of company X. Also, transitions directly from a law firm to a desirable business role in industry pretty much never happen unless the CEO is your uncle or something.

I think I didn't express myself well because I was on mobile, but I understand what you're saying. I do appreciate the clarification.

igo2northwestern
Posts: 255
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:07 am

Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby igo2northwestern » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:06 pm

robotrick wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:
robotrick wrote:
igo2northwestern wrote:I'm not sure what exits are like 7-10 years down the line, but I'll give it a shot for the 3-5. A McK engagement manager or BCG project leader might in an exceptional case become the director of X division at a $XX mm startup. The more frequent exit though is into in-house strat positions. These pay well and have lifestyles probably similar to in-house legal positions. People also move in smaller numbers into hedge funds and PE. I'd estimate it at ~10%, compensation is ~2-3x consulting $. The MBB exits are varied, such that I can't really put my finger on what the norm is. You see people becoming managers across lots of industries, including nonprofit, tech, finance, fashion, health, etc.

Since I mentioned some of the positives, here is the other side of the story. The thing I'm told by a lot of alums is that the value of MBB is a bit oversold -- you get knocked for not ever having industry experience, and once you get into a position, it's pretty much all on you. The MBB alum network is koolaid for the most part.

So it doesn't sound too different from V10 other than the obvious law vs. business distinction (suppose you could go from law to business in some cases). You even have the same complaint about lack of real experience.

I guess it makes sense.

Thanks


Ehh I'll offer some clarification on this. I think what the poster is referring to is the general lack of Profit-Loss (P&L) responsibilities in consulting. As a consultant you don't actually manage a product-line or its accompanying team. As a result, the most natural transition is to an industry job that also lacks P&L responsibilities. This means you will most often be recruited for an industry role in Strategy, Brand Management, Business Development, Business Analytics, Customer Experience, Finance (if you have the background), etc. Essentially, you most likely will be in a group that reports to the SVP of Marketing/Strategy rather than a COO or president of a product division (varies by company structure).

I'm not sure what this really should mean for any given individual but often its really just used as a counterpoint to the "MBB opens all doors" hysteria. You will still have plenty of options if you perform decently but there are some definite limitations that narrow the field somewhat. This is nothing like a V10 corporate dept were really your only exit options are somewhere on the ladder in the GC office of company X. Also, transitions directly from a law firm to a desirable business role in industry pretty much never happen unless the CEO is your uncle or something.

I think I didn't express myself well because I was on mobile, but I understand what you're saying. I do appreciate the clarification.

Sorry about the confusion -- allthelawz is on the money re: difference between actually making managerial decisions vs. making recommendations.

igo2northwestern
Posts: 255
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:07 am

Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby igo2northwestern » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:10 pm

lhanvt13 wrote:
t-14orbust wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone. Guess I should start working on my case-interview skills.

+1
Any recommendations on how to prep/best prep material would be appreciated.

Case in Point (a book) is far too simple for prep, but if you're completely new to case interviews, that would be a very good starting point. Case in point might be sufficient for lower level interviewing - and maybe even MBB if they're lenient with you - but probably not.

Next, I'd recommend caseinterview.com. Some of the guidance here is a bit mechanical, so disregard what you think won't complement your personality/delivery well. Same for case in point.

And after that, make sure you have a lot of practice cases to do prep with people who are also interested in practice case interviews. The way to get these sample cases is through business school consulting clubs. Some LS career centers have these as well, so be sure to ask them; Northwestern had a lot of these kinds of resources.

gtown1212
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:06 pm

Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby gtown1212 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:00 pm

My question is this:

If applying as a 3L, what happens to your firm offer?

2L summer SA--> get offer

Now want to apply for MBB.. what happens? Do folks who accept a MBB position renege on their firm offer acceptance?

Instinctive
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:23 pm

Re: JD ----> Management Consulting

Postby Instinctive » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:03 pm

gtown1212 wrote:My question is this:

If applying as a 3L, what happens to your firm offer?

2L summer SA--> get offer

Now want to apply for MBB.. what happens? Do folks who accept a MBB position renege on their firm offer acceptance?


Well you can't do both jobs at once dude. So...is there really a question here?

Yes, if you accept an offer at one place and then accept one at another, you kind of have to renege on the first. Be aware that means any signing bonus and such is going to have to be returned. It may also have implications for your career. For instance, if you can get an MBB job out of law school, you can likely manage to build the right network and make it in as an "experienced hire" after a couple/few years in biglaw. You'll have a very difficult time going the other way, from MBB to biglaw without any practice experience.

Your school's office of career services is very likely to tell you that you cannot, in no uncertain terms, go back on the first offer you accepted. This is true if your goal is to 100% protect future SA-->offers at your law school, but not necessarily if you want what is best for you personally. Be wary that any administration will tell you that you can't keep looking once you accept one.




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