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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:54 pm
by sam_tx
Hi,
How are the job prospects for a non US citizen LL.M. candidate from UT?
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:13 pm
by poptart123
Accepted into UT and very excited. Can somebody speak to the ability to grab big law from median? Is this rare/50-50/common?
I'm also curious about opportunities with different government agencies from UT, particularly the OAG in Austin. Can one jump on board after school or do they look for more experienced attorneys?
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:21 pm
by rnoodles
poptart123 wrote:Accepted into UT and very excited. Can somebody speak to the ability to grab big law from median? Is this rare/50-50/common?
I'm also curious about opportunities with different government agencies from UT, particularly the OAG in Austin. Can one jump on board after school or do they look for more experienced attorneys?
From what I've heard, harder than you'd think.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:37 pm
by TLS_Dreamer
Hi all! I have a question about Texas ties.
I'm a native Californian who wishes he could have chosen to be born in Texas. I went to a prestigious UG on the east coast and worked for a Texan member of Congress for a couple years. Now I work in government relations on agriculture policy so I get to work with Texans a good bit. I have an uncle and a few cousins who live in Austin (I'm not that all that close with them though), and a ton of friends in San Antonio, Austin, and Dallas. I visit Dallas and the Hill Country pretty regularly for fun and work.
I know I don't have great ties to Texas, so I'm wondering if I go to UT and get median grades will it be very difficult for me to get into Texas biglaw? Would it be easier than if I went to Michigan or UVA and got median grades there?
Thanks so much for your help!
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:43 pm
by cannibal ox
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:37 pm
by ellewoods817
rnoodles wrote:poptart123 wrote:Accepted into UT and very excited. Can somebody speak to the ability to grab big law from median? Is this rare/50-50/common?
I'm also curious about opportunities with different government agencies from UT, particularly the OAG in Austin. Can one jump on board after school or do they look for more experienced attorneys?
From what I've heard, harder than you'd think.
I'd say that biglaw from median is 50-50, wholly dependent on your interviewing skills or demonstrated interest in an area of law where the firm is looking to hire.
I received multiple biglaw offers from just above median, but I think having a demonstrated area of interest may have helped. I've been told that I'm a good interviewer, but am a generally introverted person and am dubious that my interviewing skills are much above average.
Can't speak to OAG hiring, but other agencies do hire straight out. You're more likely to get an agency gig straight out if you have interned for them during the summer/school year or do the long-career-launch program after 3L with your desired agency.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:46 pm
by ellewoods817
TLS_Dreamer wrote:Hi all! I have a question about Texas ties.
I'm a native Californian who wishes he could have chosen to be born in Texas. I went to a prestigious UG on the east coast and worked for a Texan member of Congress for a couple years. Now I work in government relations on agriculture policy so I get to work with Texans a good bit. I have an uncle and a few cousins who live in Austin (I'm not that all that close with them though), and a ton of friends in San Antonio, Austin, and Dallas. I visit Dallas and the Hill Country pretty regularly for fun and work.
I know I don't have great ties to Texas, so I'm wondering if I go to UT and get median grades will it be very difficult for me to get into Texas biglaw? Would it be easier than if I went to Michigan or UVA and got median grades there?
Thanks so much for your help!
Your ties are plenty, I know people with fewer ties that got biglaw from median and people with better ties that struck out from median. Just focus on grades/interviewing skills. It will be easier to get Texas biglaw (as a person who didn't do undergrad in Texas) from UT than Michigan or UVA. Going to UT will be one think that you can point to when you're telling people that you are dedicated to staying in Texas. Going to Michigan or UVA could make interviewers think that you're just applying to all large markets and then claiming that you want to move to whatever market you are interviewing for.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:16 pm
by cannibal ox
I don't totally agree with the above. I have a more cynical view about getting biglaw from median, and definitely a more cynical view about your ties being good enough, but I'm definitely influenced by some of my own struggles (re: ties, not so much grades).
UT vs UVA/Mich depends on price and whether you'd be okay with small/mid-law in Texas over biglaw in NYC.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:17 pm
by BigZuck
ellewoods817 wrote:TLS_Dreamer wrote:Hi all! I have a question about Texas ties.
I'm a native Californian who wishes he could have chosen to be born in Texas. I went to a prestigious UG on the east coast and worked for a Texan member of Congress for a couple years. Now I work in government relations on agriculture policy so I get to work with Texans a good bit. I have an uncle and a few cousins who live in Austin (I'm not that all that close with them though), and a ton of friends in San Antonio, Austin, and Dallas. I visit Dallas and the Hill Country pretty regularly for fun and work.
I know I don't have great ties to Texas, so I'm wondering if I go to UT and get median grades will it be very difficult for me to get into Texas biglaw? Would it be easier than if I went to Michigan or UVA and got median grades there?
Thanks so much for your help!
Your ties are plenty, I know people with fewer ties that got biglaw from median and people with better ties that struck out from median. Just focus on grades/interviewing skills. It will be easier to get Texas biglaw (as a person who didn't do undergrad in Texas) from UT than Michigan or UVA. Going to UT will be one think that you can point to when you're telling people that you are dedicated to staying in Texas. Going to Michigan or UVA could make interviewers think that you're just applying to all large markets and then claiming that you want to move to whatever market you are interviewing for.
Eh...
I think those ties sound kind of weakish. Also I'm not really sure that it would be easier to get TX big law (at median) for this person than it would be if they went to a more prestigious school. One of the main problems I think is if the OP is hoping for Austin big law (good luck) or Dallas big law as opposed to Houston. Dallas seems more insular than Houston, plus it's a smaller market.
OP- it highly depends on cost here. I'd lean UVA I think, but we'd need more info. UT could certainly be a good move but as with everything, it depends
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:18 pm
by BigZuck
Dude did you tag me in just to scoop me
SMH
WELL PLAYED SIR
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:19 pm
by BigZuck
TLS_Dreamer wrote:Hi all! I have a question about Texas ties.
I'm a native Californian who wishes he could have chosen to be born in Texas. I went to a prestigious UG on the east coast and worked for a Texan member of Congress for a couple years. Now I work in government relations on agriculture policy so I get to work with Texans a good bit. I have an uncle and a few cousins who live in Austin (I'm not that all that close with them though), and a ton of friends in San Antonio, Austin, and Dallas. I visit Dallas and the Hill Country pretty regularly for fun and work.
I know I don't have great ties to Texas, so I'm wondering if I go to UT and get median grades will it be very difficult for me to get into Texas biglaw? Would it be easier than if I went to Michigan or UVA and got median grades there?
Thanks so much for your help!
Anyway though feel free to PM me at some point, out of stater grad here
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:49 pm
by cannibal ox
BigZuck wrote:Dude did you tag me in just to scoop me
SMH
WELL PLAYED SIR
lul
In my defense I tagged you because you probably have a good perspective for OP to listen to, then I only posted because there was a response that I felt was not representative of the average out-of-state median UT kid.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:50 pm
by cannibal ox
Also I wasted my 3000th post on a half-assed response to a post directed at a 0L. This is what I have become.
Edit: I'm also willing to take PMs. I'm an out-of-state 3L with nothing better to do.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:06 pm
by Hikikomorist
OOS 2L willing to take questions/PMs, too. I think a 50/50 chance is optimistic for someone at median, and I also think UVA/Michigan would be a safer bet from median.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:06 pm
by ellewoods817
My response was based on my own experiences as an OOS 2L a hair above median with mediocre ties to Texas. Obviously it's going to vary, and bidding Houston would give OP a better chance at biglaw. Any decision should be based largely on financials. But from what I saw at OCI this year (again, largely anecdotal based on my friend group) I do think that saving money (if you can get into Michigan/UVA, you'll definitely get an OOS tuition waiver and decent scholarship from UT) by going to UT + having roughly the same chance at TX biglaw from all 3 schools tips the scales in favor of UT. I'm mostly saying that OP would have roughly the same chance at TX biglaw from all 3 schools because 1) UT is king for TX, 2) since OP has mediocre ties to TX, going in state to UT rather than OOS would be beneficial for ties. I'm aware that generally for biglaw, Michigan or UVA would be better, but it's a closer game if we limit to TX.
Granted, all of this advice is given assuming that you do make median grades (huge assumption) and that you're TX or bust for biglaw. For anyone who is biglaw or bust, I would still highly recommend the NY job fair as a backup.
I don't think that any of the advice given here is bad OP, definitely consider all the factors that people have brought up. Feel free to PM me also.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:40 pm
by cannibal ox
1) If you're biglaw of bust, DO NOT GO TO UT
2) If we're going on anecdotes, then ~median and OOS at UT is a very bad spot to be in come OCI
3) If you're choosing NYC biglaw as a backup, don't do the NYC job fair.. go to a different school. Everyone at UT should do the NYC job fair, but I don't think you're getting NYC and not TX biglaw. If you get a job from NYC you're probably fine at OCI in TX.
The reason to go to UT would be: need to be in Texas during school and immediately after, relatively low CoA, and okay with mid/small law somewhere in Texas (don't count on Austin). If any of these 3 things do not apply to OP, then UT is arguably a bad choice.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:46 pm
by TLS_Dreamer
cannibal ox wrote:2) If we're going on anecdotes, then ~median and OOS at UT is a very bad spot to be in come OCI
Why do you say ~median at UT is bad come OCI? Will that make it hard to get biglaw? Or just hard to get a legal job period?
Would you recommend UVA or Duke or UT for someone with poor Texas ties? I really want to practice in Austin (probably not happening) or Dallas (hopefully I can get there)!
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:20 pm
by cannibal ox
TLS_Dreamer wrote:cannibal ox wrote:2) If we're going on anecdotes, then ~median and OOS at UT is a very bad spot to be in come OCI
Why do you say ~median at UT is bad come OCI? Will that make it hard to get biglaw? Or just hard to get a legal job period?
Would you recommend UVA or Duke or UT for someone with poor Texas ties? I really want to practice in Austin (probably not happening) or Dallas (hopefully I can get there)!
Median at OCI will be tough because you won't get as many interviews as you would at a lottery school, meaning you'll have to nail the interviews you do have and that's obviously easier said than done. You wouldn't even get in front of a firm in Baker Botts without a 3.5 (median is 3.37 or somewhere around there after 1L).
I think UT does a decent job at placing most of its grads, as long as you consider 75%-80% decent. But biglaw is the path of least resistance and the job hustle can be soul crushing. That doesn't mean there aren't good jobs that come from places other than OCI, just that they're tough to get, require more than a few 20-minute interviews (like biglaw), and the end result might just be biglaw hours with shitlaw pay.
UVA vs Duke vs UT is not a debate you can have without knowing the cost of each, how you're paying for law school, and what job you're gunning for and what jobs you'd be satisfied having upon graduation. I wouldn't hold my breath for Austin from any of those schools, especially with poor Texas ties. Dallas is a more reasonable place to aim (and necessary if you go to UT).
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:22 pm
by TLS_Dreamer
Thanks so much for responding! This is really good information to have and I'm sure others will benefit from reading your post too.
I've gotten into three t14 schools and three t20 schools so far (including UT). Is it alright if I reach out to you again once I know scholarships to ask for your advice?
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:26 pm
by PrezRand
How successful are people at getting big law in Austin?
I have lived in Texas for 20 years (21). Would it be a bad thing to go to any t14 over UT if you are biglaw in Texas or just HYSCCNVD?
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:28 pm
by cannibal ox
TLS_Dreamer wrote:Thanks so much for responding! This is really good information to have and I'm sure others will benefit from reading your post too.
I've gotten into three t14 schools and three t20 schools so far (including UT). Is it alright if I reach out to you again once I know scholarships to ask for your advice?
Absolutely. I would also broaden a bit and post in other TLS forums like Picking a Law School, as those posters are probably more in-touch with costs/values of particular schools as compared to me, a 3L.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:41 pm
by TLS_Dreamer
cannibal ox wrote:TLS_Dreamer wrote:Thanks so much for responding! This is really good information to have and I'm sure others will benefit from reading your post too.
I've gotten into three t14 schools and three t20 schools so far (including UT). Is it alright if I reach out to you again once I know scholarships to ask for your advice?
Absolutely. I would also broaden a bit and post in other TLS forums like Picking a Law School, as those posters are probably more in-touch with costs/values of particular schools as compared to me, a 3L.
Thanks so much!
I just got into UT and I couldn't be more excited!!!! I'll be sure to update once I know how much scholarship they offer.
I wanted to ask another question about the school. How conservative is the student body? And what is the social scene like? How do you meet people there as a 1L? Also, do you have any advice in regards to balancing making friends at the beginning of 1L and studying hard? Would you recommend moving to Austin a few weeks before 1L starts to get acclimated to the people and neighborhood? Where would you recommend living?
Thanks for any time you have to answer any of these questions!
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:35 pm
by cannibal ox
TLS_Dreamer wrote:Thanks so much!
I just got into UT and I couldn't be more excited!!!! I'll be sure to update once I know how much scholarship they offer.
I wanted to ask another question about the school. How conservative is the student body? And what is the social scene like? How do you meet people there as a 1L? Also, do you have any advice in regards to balancing making friends at the beginning of 1L and studying hard? Would you recommend moving to Austin a few weeks before 1L starts to get acclimated to the people and neighborhood? Where would you recommend living?
Thanks for any time you have to answer any of these questions!
I'll start by saying these are just my opinions or things I've observed and that what I say might not be representative, but here goes:
How conservative is the student body? Um, there's a FedSoc? But there is at every school. I think law student generally are pretty liberal leaning and UT is no exception. I don't really have a great grasp on people's political points of view. You'll find people you agree with if that's important to you, regardless of your views (unless they're super nutso). You can also ignore political stuff pretty easily by skipping the debates and not talking about things. No one would find that weird.
I can't compare social scene to any other school since I've only gone to 1 school. It's good, I suppose. Austin is awesome and there's a ton of stuff to do and people to meet. You will have no shortage of opportunities to meet people and do cool things here. I'm a pretty reserved person who doesn't venture out much and I still somehow have a good number of friends. If I can do it, anyone can.
You're in one of 4 sections as a 1L and you'll take (almost) every class with your section for the first year, so you'll see the same 60-75 people (depending on class size) day in and day out. There are also social things based on your "society" which gets assigned to you. Things like a boat cruise, flag football, and a spirit week thingy. You'll get to know everyone in your section (if you want) and will have met plenty of people without making much of an effort.
Don't avoid things because you think you need to study in the first part of the semester. The first 2 months are mostly spinning your wheels and spending 185821375x longer on things than is actually required, but you won't know the best way to learn because it's law school and that's just how it works. Don't stay in every weekend studying and cut yourself off. The best advice I can give a 1L is to enjoy the first couple months. You won't fall behind. You'll have plenty of time in November/December to ruin your life by studying 24/7. Go out and have fun and then when Halloween comes, consider outlining and maybe buckling down (but you still have plenty of time).
I think there's only 1 thing that happens with the law school before the official orientation date, and I missed it and have no regrets. There's no need to be here weeks ahead of time. Just give yourself a couple days before orientation so that you can move and take care of little things and then have a day or two to relax before starting school related things. That's not to say DON'T come a few weeks ahead of time. You just might be bored, I guess.
I'm gonna pass on answering the "where to live" question because I found an average apartment within walking distance and haven't moved in 3 years, but there are a ton of better options that are much cooler than where I'm at. I just have low standards and appreciate how (relatively) cheap my apartment is.
Hope some of that helps.
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:43 pm
by PrezRand
bump. need answers plz
Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:51 pm
by BigZuck
PrezRand wrote:bump. need answers plz
I think the answer to both questions is "It depends"
Haven't you made your own thread devoted to that topic? Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else.
In general I recommend all people abandon hope of getting big law in Austin. Maybe it will happen but just pretend like that isn't an option and proceed accordingly.
(This is where someone comes along and starts arguing with me)