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A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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lawhopeful10
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby lawhopeful10 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:45 pm

Samara wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.

Wut. This is a perfectly legitimate topic for this forum an one that has been discussed several times. Law school is a rare type of stressful experience and it makes sense to ask people who have been through it about the effect it can have on relationships.

And how is it dishonest?


I mean I get what he is saying, if you have dated someone for 4 years questioning your relationship on an online forum with a title to break up or not seems questionable. I will be an hour away from my girlfriend for 1L and couldn't imagine posting a topic like this. If you see a future with this person you try and give it a shot if you not then different answer, as others have said already, the simple aspect of posting this question online gives an answer.

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Samara
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Samara » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:07 pm

I'm glad all you 0Ls in non-committed relationships are able to give such definitive advice to strangers.

Jake Wyler
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Jake Wyler » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:16 pm

0L here, starting law school in the fall, gf of over a year starting med school half the country away. We're going to try to stick together because we both think this could be it for us. OP, you know your relationship better than anyone else, and you know if it's going somewhere or it it's not. 4 years is long enough to know definitively, either shit or get off the pot

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby lawhopeful10 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:19 pm

Samara wrote:I'm glad all you 0Ls in non-committed relationships are able to give such definitive advice to strangers.

I'm not sure how you think posting a break up or not thread on a law forum signals a healthy relationship. But this person came asking for advice/opinions and as someone staying in a relationship entering law school I gave mine much the same as you did.

Jacques_Bentley
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Jacques_Bentley » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:28 pm

jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.


Agree completely with this. My initial post in this thread was somewhat abrupt and short on substance. If I'd taken the time to write out a proper reply, it would have looked much like jbagelboy's comments here. Think about it: you've been in a relationship for four years -- long enough to have gotten to know someone very well and have that person become a major part of your life -- yet you're asking anonymous forumgoers on the Internet for advice on whether or not you should end that relationship. And based on what? Nothing more than speculative musings on whether you might get bored of him while in school and/or whether your academic performance might suffer. That's probably a big clue that your relationship is well past its expiration date.

Jacques_Bentley
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Jacques_Bentley » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:33 pm

Samara wrote:I'm glad all you 0Ls in non-committed relationships are able to give such definitive advice to strangers.


Not sure who this was directed to, but I'm a graduate, not a 0L. And I stand by my definitive advice.

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Rory19
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Rory19 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:57 pm

jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.


I understand this sentiment but I actually have discussed this with my significant other. He knows that I made pro-con lists and sought out advice, I'm an empirical person even in my relationships. My need to think thoroughly through major commitments is a product of my past and something I want my future partner to respect and appreciate. I have not been dishonest or done this behind his back. I also did not say anything in the original post that I have not said to him.

That being said, thank you for sharing that you are in a similar situation. The camaraderie was part of what I was searching for in this post.

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Rory19
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Rory19 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:01 pm

Jacques_Bentley wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.


Agree completely with this. My initial post in this thread was somewhat abrupt and short on substance. If I'd taken the time to write out a proper reply, it would have looked much like jbagelboy's comments here. Think about it: you've been in a relationship for four years -- long enough to have gotten to know someone very well and have that person become a major part of your life -- yet you're asking anonymous forumgoers on the Internet for advice on whether or not you should end that relationship. And based on what? Nothing more than speculative musings on whether you might get bored of him while in school and/or whether your academic performance might suffer. That's probably a big clue that your relationship is well past its expiration date.


The thread title may have given that impression--I wanted it to grab attention so people would read the thread--but my original post was seeking out other people's experiences with like circumstances, not asking others to make the decision for me.

Stinson
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Stinson » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:33 pm

jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.


+ 1 to this. You sound like a feeling human being.

OP, it's good that you are not going behind your SO's back, that you have talked about this, and have as you say an empirical personality. And you asked for people with similar experiences, so I'll share. My now fiance and I applied to law and medical school together and began both together. When I read your posts, I had these thoughts.

1. 1L changes you as much as you let it. If you get really into the law school thing - joining a zillion clubs, going to all the bar reviews, doing a lot of group studying, etc. - your life will look less and less like your SO's, you will have less and less to relate between yourselves, it will get hard. If, on the other hand, you look at law school as a job - someplace you go during the day and occasionally in the evening for a discrete event or journal meeting - but as only one part of your life, it works better. You have to make hard barriers around parts of your life to keep those parts alive. People make the mistake of thinking that unless they commit every waking moment to thinking, breathing, drinking, and everything else law, they will fail at school. Such thinking does little to help 1L success and eats at every other aspect of life.

2. If your SO will not be actually in med school - you said he's starting, so I assume that means he's got out his primaries, is hearing on secondaries and/or waiting on MCAT score, and will be doing interviews through fall - is he going to have something consistent to do where you are? The law/med thing works with a trick - both people are super busy, so no one resents anyone and no one has time to miss anyone. If both people are not equally busy, they start to resent each other. Will you resent your spouse for not being as stressed out as you are? Will he resent you for going to a group cite check when you haven't spent any quality time together in days? Only you can answer those.

3. What's the plan for once med school starts? I ask because you should know now. Like, right now. Not figure it out later. Now. You have a few ways you can go:
a. SO only applies to schools near where you are and is fine going to those schools.
b. You and SO are fine with years of long distance.
c. SO will apply broadly and you will break up if he goes far away and stay together if he stays close.

a. is risky and may or may not be possible, especially depending where you go to school. If you are really interested in staying together, then c. is a set up for a 1L year relationship and life destroying argument where you want SO to go to the nearby school that he doesn't actually want, and he wants to go to his top choice that isn't where you are.

So if you are really wanting to stay together and are okay with b, go with that. If you basically don't care whether you are together long term and that IS ACTUALLY HOW YOU BOTH FEEL - not how just one of you feels, not how you think you ought to feel, not what you kinda sorta feel because that's comfortable - then try c.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:36 pm

jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.

What is this. I don't even.

To the OP. Considering that your BF is applying to medical schools this year, you need to determine whether you can accept doing long distance for a minimum of 2 years. It sounds like you're hesitant. Honestly, unless you really see marrying this guy in the future, I would break it off before you move.

utlaw2007
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:49 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.

What is this. I don't even.

To the OP. Considering that your BF is applying to medical schools this year, you need to determine whether you can accept doing long distance for a minimum of 2 years. It sounds like you're hesitant. Honestly, unless you really see marrying this guy in the future, I would break it off before you move.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby RodneyRuxin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:54 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.

What is this. I don't even.

To the OP. Considering that your BF is applying to medical schools this year, you need to determine whether you can accept doing long distance for a minimum of 2 years. It sounds like you're hesitant. Honestly, unless you really see marrying this guy in the future, I would break it off before you move.





I agree with both of the responses here.. so I'm not really sure where the "I don't even" thing came into play.

OP: If you're talking about breaking off a 4 year relationship on an online forum with randos, you're not with the right person. Though refreshingly the opposite of the typical "special snowflake" syndrome, it tells me that you have problems that are only going to be exacerbated in a long-distance relationship. Long distance/law school don't break people up--they just highlight the problems already existing in the relationship.

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fish tacos
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby fish tacos » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:LOL at law shrews, just lol.


This.

suzige
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby suzige » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:24 pm

OP, I think it is completely appropriate and healthy to assess your relationship at this time. It's awesome that you two are communicating and being realistic. I'm entering 1L with an SO, so I understand how you feel a bit. I think you need to be honest with yourself first, and then communicate with your SO to figure out where he sees this relationship going. Don't assume that the grass is always greener, but if you are not happy and cannot see yourself with this person in the future, then break up. However, if you want to be with him in the end, then you'll choose to try and make it work. I'm sure you already know, relationships take a lot of work. 4 years is a good amount of time, but you're not engaged or married, so I am getting the feeling that neither of you are ready to fully commit just yet. Like another poster has pointed out, if your relationship cannot withstand major changes in lifestyle and stress, it's doubtful it could last in the end. There are no guarantees though. Good Luck.

cnjorda
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby cnjorda » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:54 pm

As other posters have mentioned, if you are asking the question, it sounds like the best option may be to take a break. During that time, you may figure out that he is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with or you may find the person you actually want to spend the rest of your life with.

I'm in a similar situation. I've been dating my boyfriend for 3 years and we've lived together for 2 of them. I'm moving across the country for law school (and here is where our situations differ) and I wanted him to come with. He currently has a job that he loves and other commitments, so he decided to stay. Another deeper issue though, that we've hashed out, is that he basically wants to have one last hoorah type thing. That was hard to stomach for me, but it made me realize that I don't want to be with someone who still has half a mind to test the waters a little longer. I need to give him the time he needs, and I realized that I need this time in law school for myself too.

We're going to stay together until I leave and we'll keep in touch to the extent that we want to while we're apart--we still love each other. We've decided it that if it works out then we really wanted it to, and if it doesn't, we'll find what we want during our time apart and be okay.

Do yourselves a favor and take some time apart.

DClaw2014
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby DClaw2014 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:21 pm

I'm a rising 3L and I can understand the anxiety you're feeling. My boyfriend and I had been together almost four years when I started law school, and we were long distance my entire 1L year. I can't say that I thought it was going to work 100% of the time. It was difficult. During exam time, I was almost completely MIA, but since we were always the kind of couple that had lives and interests outside our relationship, he was fine. He ended up moving to where I'm in school to get his masters during my 2L year and will be starting his PhD soon. Like other posters have said, if you're concerned with other issues in the relationship, those will come out while you're in school. If your relationship is in a good place and your boyfriend knows that you will be crazybusy (ie. you're not the couple that's attached to the hip), it can be a great experience for both parties. My boyfriend has said quite a few times that I changed a lot since I've started law school, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The main change, at least for me, was becoming more sure of myself and becoming more passionate about my career. Good luck!

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:32 pm

Omg. It's just law school. Live your life.

cnjorda
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby cnjorda » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:36 am

BaiAilian2013 wrote:Omg. It's just law school. Live your life.


Why even bother to respond at all? This is a forum for helpful advice and support--none of which you have contributed.

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AreJay711
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:46 am

I don't think 1L was particularly hard to maintain a relationship. You have a lot to do but it is pretty structured and it's just reading you have to do. 2L was awful because you have 2 million other things going on after law school. It didn't work out for me, but that's because my SO wanted someone who had more time for her, not because some mystical relationship-ruining property of law school. Your SO will probably be pretty busy with med school and have plenty going on so that might not even be an issue for you. If it's not going to work, it's not going to work; don't rush to end it because the future isn't clear.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:58 pm

lawhopeful, Jacques_Bentley, Stinson, Rodney -- thank you for validating the reaction
Samara -- I appreciate the utility of the anonymous forum, but discussing the general merits and demerits of LS relationships is different to posing a specific query regarding your own (personal) 4-year relationship. I suppose people are different; there are implicitly private boundaries with friends & family that I would never care to overstep with strangers online, but others enjoy cybersex, which to me is utterly bizarre and pointless. As for the trust issue, OP only subsequently explained the below.
Doorkeeper: uhm, yes? you were saying?

Rory19 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I'm moving to NYC with my SO. Excited and scared. I get how tough it is.

However, I would never, ever post about breaking up with her on an anonymous forum. That's an intensely personal decision that would depend on factors entirely removed from law school.

It sounds like you are trying to compute how the relationship would impact your law success, and how you could best use it to your advantage/avoid disadvantage. Stop now. This isn't an empirical exercise, and if it is, you should re-evaluate who you are as a person. After 4 years, it should be relationship > professional achievement. If it's not, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

I don't blame you for questioning -- I do too -- but it's totally unfair to him that you would go behind his back and post this here. It's dishonest. Think about how he would feel if he read this? after 4 years together? I would be crushed.


I understand this sentiment but I actually have discussed this with my significant other. He knows that I made pro-con lists and sought out advice, I'm an empirical person even in my relationships. My need to think thoroughly through major commitments is a product of my past and something I want my future partner to respect and appreciate. I have not been dishonest or done this behind his back. I also did not say anything in the original post that I have not said to him.

That being said, thank you for sharing that you are in a similar situation. The camaraderie was part of what I was searching for in this post.


I appreciate that you had shared your thoughts and methods of rationalization/debate with your SO. I retract my vitriol labeling you as dishonest. Your OP did not reflect that you were in communication with him about this. You are not a bad person and I apologize.

I can also relate to wanting to hear the experiences of others, and getting a better anecdotal sense of how relationships have played out. I think you've gotten some sound advice and stories here.

Nonetheless, respectively, being strictly empirical in a loving relationship is contradictory to me. Serious relationships are emotional at their core (the following clearly does not apply to flings, hookups, ect., I'm talking 4+ years here). You should FEEL something about the person, there should be a connection that would dictate a higher power of decision making; you should WANT to make it work, not evaluate why it won't, and not because it computes to a certain degree of comfort, but because its important to you for reasons you can't objectively describe, reasons others may not understand because its your relationship and your love. This is what would invalidate the opinions of strangers to me, and thus invalidate the topic. Maybe this "past" you reference involved a trauma or an incident impinging on your emotional health, in which case TCR is to get help. I could never be with someone who didn't have the capacity to feel this way about me, to place the emotional over the empirical. Even if others in this thread wouldn't phrase it so sappily, the most common response (you shouldn't be w/ him if you're questioning) is basically an expression of this core point. But this is why the world is full of different people and different compatabilities.

Best of luck to you

Yasy13
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Yasy13 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:18 pm

Not sure why there are so many snappy responses. As much as I would want to have posted this question on a forum as well, I know that my SO would be very upset if he found out, even though this is all anonymous, it would still hurt to hear I was asking advice from randoms.

Anyways back to your question and like someone said before, it's just law school, live YOUR life, if you want to stay with your SO and think that you guys are built to last, why would you end it? Just try it out, especially if your SO is coming with you for a while, that is perfect. Do what you want though, not what any of us are saying.

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simplycatalina
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby simplycatalina » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:46 pm

Asking these questions indicates to me that you don't really wanna be in the relationship. If you've been together for that long then going to law school shouldn't be a make it or break it situation. I say this because I asked the same questions a few weeks ago about my SO of three years but then realized that I was just using law school/distance as an excuse for something that I needed to figure out without taking law school into account. Just my two cents.

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zor
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby zor » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:00 am

Wow, so much judgment from the posters...

1L is fine. It will only change you inasmuch as all life experiences change you. I'm also in a long-term relationship but we aren't married/engaged/interested. He is also considering med school so we have had this conversation, too. I just finished my 1L year and honestly, it probably strengthened our relationship. I commuted to school and I'm an older student, so I wasn't as interested in the social scene of bar reviews/ partying/ etc. I made plenty of law school friends anyway. It was actually really amazing to come home from a long day at school (b/c of the commute and also the incredible distracting power of my SO I would try not to bring work home and just stay there until it was all done) to someone completely removed from that experience who would cook me dinner and generally make me feel human again. And I did fabulously in classes and am now transferring to a T6 from a T60-80.

So you can definitely have a great relationship and a great law school experience, and if you think you want this relationship to continue, I don't see why you wouldn't move together and see where med school leads him when you get to that bridge later. However, if your heart's just not in it and your gut is telling you that this is as good a time as any to move on, then I would say pre-law school is probably better than mid-1L for a breakup, because 1L I just didn't have a lot of emotional energy for anything.

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Crowing
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby Crowing » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:40 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:OP: If you're talking about breaking off a 4 year relationship on an online forum with randos, you're not with the right person. Though refreshingly the opposite of the typical "special snowflake" syndrome, it tells me that you have problems that are only going to be exacerbated in a long-distance relationship. Long distance/law school don't break people up--they just highlight the problems already existing in the relationship.


I don't think that's really a fair assessment. OP is not holding a poll to determine their relationship's fate. I don't see why criticism is deserved; this is a big decision and it's nice to get all sorts of perspectives, even from random people if they can offer information on experiences you may not have had. Of course the individual decision is just that, highly individualized. But getting general advice about LDRs in LS is fine, and to some degree an internet forum can be a good outlet to express such anxieties due to the anonymity.

llachans
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Re: Break Up or Stay Together

Postby llachans » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:52 pm

2 year relationship. My gf moved with me. We broke up halfway through second semester 1L year. We didn't have any issues before moving. She wasn't as independent as she'd promised she would be and became depressed adjusting to a new city where she didn't have any friends and didn't have the amount of attention from me she desired. I also had a friend get divorced second semester of 1L.

On the other hand, many of my classmates are still with the SOs they started law school with. Like any change or move, it depends on the couple. I'm guessing your boyfriend is more independent than my gf was and will probably be more understanding to the time commitment that law school is since he wants to go to med school.

At the end of the day, any advice offered here will be anecdotal.




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