Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

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scifiguy
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Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby scifiguy » Tue May 28, 2013 1:43 pm

For those who may know of people who struck out of biglaw, I'm curious what paths these individuals may have taken and where they have ended up in the legal profession (if at all) a few years (or many) later?

Could some experienced students/lawyers share on this? Or if anyone has been in that position personally and wouldn't mind sharing that would be great as well.

lukertin
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby lukertin » Tue May 28, 2013 2:11 pm

1. Unemployed after being laid off. (<1 yr)
2. Unemployed for a while, temp'd, and in at a boutique. (<3 yrs)
3. Unemployed, but then moved to Alaska and got hired as State gov't counsel. (<2yrs)
4. Got hired as staff attorney for State Congress. (<1 yr)
5. Works for the Federal Government. (<1 yr)
6. Unemployed/Temp'd/sold books on ebay for 2 years and now works for the Federal Government. (<3 yrs)

I added time frames for you so you can get an idea of what happened.

Oh one more:

7. Failed the bar for the third time. (<3 years)

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scifiguy
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby scifiguy » Tue May 28, 2013 2:18 pm

lukertin wrote:1. Unemployed after being laid off. (<1 yr)
2. Unemployed for a while, temp'd, and in at a boutique. (<3 yrs)
3. Unemployed, but then moved to Alaska and got hired as State gov't counsel. (<2yrs)
4. Got hired as staff attorney for State Congress. (<1 yr)
5. Works for the Federal Government. (<1 yr)
6. Unemployed/Temp'd/sold books on ebay for 2 years and now works for the Federal Government. (<3 yrs)

I added time frames for you so you can get an idea of what happened.


If you don't mind sharing, how did # 6 get into the federal government after several years of seemingly doing non-relevant work? Or was it a legal position that he or she obtained?

That's interesting that you have several state and federal government paths. Have those all been law related or in other areas?

And, lastly, were the people above from T14 schools? Or perhaps in that general range (maybe T20-ish)?

NYstate
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby NYstate » Tue May 28, 2013 2:33 pm

One well known example is a founder of constitutional daily. He went to NYU when it was ranked 3rd. He graduated in the recession and got lathamed from a biglaw firm. He had to move back to his parents house in Alabama where he was turned down for every job he applied to- contract management, etc. he couldnt even get hired by Target when they opened a store near where he lived.

He is going back to school to get a graduate degree.

Another fairly well known example is the founder of rap genius. A Yale grad and Stanford law grad he was let go from Dewey during a year of deferral ( not sure why) He is not back in law either afaik.

As far as friends- dont really want to out their experiences. Not my place to tell their stories. I will say that all of them struggled in some way.

lukertin
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby lukertin » Tue May 28, 2013 3:03 pm

scifiguy wrote:If you don't mind sharing, how did # 6 get into the federal government after several years of seemingly doing non-relevant work? Or was it a legal position that he or she obtained?

It was related temp work. When the relevant agency began hiring again (it had froze hiring for 2 years) she went all out trying to get the job.

That's interesting that you have several state and federal government paths. Have those all been law related or in other areas?

They are all law related. (Though how law-related is open for debate).

And, lastly, were the people above from T14 schools? Or perhaps in that general range (maybe T20-ish)?

1, 2, 4, 5 were from T20 schools. The others were kind of from TTTs.

7 was a Cooley grad.

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scifiguy
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby scifiguy » Tue May 28, 2013 11:48 pm

NYstate wrote:One well known example is a founder of constitutional daily. He went to NYU when it was ranked 3rd. He graduated in the recession and got lathamed from a biglaw firm. He had to move back to his parents house in Alabama where he was turned down for every job he applied to- contract management, etc. he couldnt even get hired by Target when they opened a store near where he lived.

He is going back to school to get a graduate degree.

Another fairly well known example is the founder of rap genius. A Yale grad and Stanford law grad he was let go from Dewey during a year of deferral ( not sure why) He is not back in law either afaik.

As far as friends- dont really want to out their experiences. Not my place to tell their stories. I will say that all of them struggled in some way.


Yeah, don't worry. I wasn't necessarily asking for specifics that would identify a particular person. But maybe just generic details or whatever people felt was OK to share. I understand the delicacy of the issue.

For those you mentioned who were friends, were these T14-type grads? And did they end up actually working in any type of law at all?

NYstate
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby NYstate » Wed May 29, 2013 8:55 am

scifiguy wrote:
NYstate wrote:One well known example is a founder of constitutional daily. He went to NYU when it was ranked 3rd. He graduated in the recession and got lathamed from a biglaw firm. He had to move back to his parents house in Alabama where he was turned down for every job he applied to- contract management, etc. he couldnt even get hired by Target when they opened a store near where he lived.

He is going back to school to get a graduate degree.

Another fairly well known example is the founder of rap genius. A Yale grad and Stanford law grad he was let go from Dewey during a year of deferral ( not sure why) He is not back in law either afaik.

As far as friends- dont really want to out their experiences. Not my place to tell their stories. I will say that all of them struggled in some way.


Yeah, don't worry. I wasn't necessarily asking for specifics that would identify a particular person. But maybe just generic details or whatever people felt was OK to share. I understand the delicacy of the issue.

For those you mentioned who were friends, were these T14-type grads? And did they end up actually working in any type of law at all?


The people I know are all T 14 people. Most from HYS CCN MVP- maybe a couple of people from Duke. Not everyone got fired either, some managed to hang on to their jobs for various reasons- partners protecting them, some expertise in certain areas that needed to keep associates, other connections, obviously more talented.

Some people I have lost touch with because they had to leave the city. Two people who were clerks found litigation jobs. I know a couple of other people who are in litigation boutique firms. A couple of people managed in- house jobs because of connections, ( one had a strong music publishing background; one had done media/ entertainment stuff; one math genius knew a lot about derivatives and esoteric stuff) but only after being out of work for a while. So yes, people got jobs in law but (initially) at much lower salaries and after significant stress and unemployment.


Looking back on it, the people who had connections, work experience or skills were able to find work most easily. This shouldn't be a surprise, I guess, but it shows that making connections is as important as grades and maybe even more important than school - at least within the top schools.

I don't know how this compares to the current market for people who get stealthed. Or for people who miss out on biglaw as a 2L. The lathamed people were looking for jobs at the same time as a large number of people. Also, as you know class sizes at firms were much larger then so there were many people on the market and no one was hiring.

Seeing what happened to these associates is why I am so debt averse. Going to a top school and getting great grades didn't protect them. And they all paid significantly less for law school than the current 0Ls will pay. I always tell people not to forget that the partners can do the work without them. Partners are going to protect their own lifestyle at any cost to staff or associates.

One problem now is that firms have learned to stealth fire and maybe even use confidentiality agreements. 0Ls look at class size and hiring rates but don't have any sense of the number of people who lose their jobs. They all think they will stay for 5 years. I've come to the conclusion that the $160, 000 starting salary will keep 0Ls paying any amount for tuition.

timshellaw
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby timshellaw » Thu May 30, 2013 11:25 am

Friend graduated during the recession with 200k in debt from an NYC school (I saw the bill) and has been doing doc review since then. I'm not sure how he/she makes it work because he/she doesn't sound uber miserable (not independently wealthy, but family may help somewhat) or like the doc reviewers at JDU. He/she takes cases on the side.

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scifiguy
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby scifiguy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:20 pm

timshellaw wrote:Friend graduated during the recession with 200k in debt from an NYC school (I saw the bill) and has been doing doc review since then. I'm not sure how he/she makes it work because he/she doesn't sound uber miserable (not independently wealthy, but family may help somewhat) or like the doc reviewers at JDU. He/she takes cases on the side.


Was that a T14?

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scifiguy
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Re: Where Are They Now? (People Who Struck Out of Biglaw)

Postby scifiguy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:22 pm

NY - What did you mean by a "stealth" fire?




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