making sh&%$ law pay you well

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utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:59 pm

I've been pretty occupied with work so I'll try to get back to this thread as soon as I can.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:09 pm

6lehderjets wrote:Probably has already been said, but thanks for doing this. Awesome hustle.


Thank you.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:27 pm

I think I answered everything that I wanted to talk about. Thank you to everyone for your participation on this thread.

BFrankBYangC
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby BFrankBYangC » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:58 pm

This is a really cool thread and very inspiring. Thanks for sharing.

ksllaw
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby ksllaw » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:59 am

Just a quick follow-up question, utlaw.

Have you ever done free seminars for your business, where you give out some free advice to a group of people while using it as an opportunity to also get your name out and hand out business cards?

The husband of my cousin's best friend works in small law as a bankruptcy attorney and she was telling me that the guy frequently goes out of town to do seminars related to his practice. Didn't get any details more specific than that (although I asked if she could find out more - never met the guy myself), but found that interesting.

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mvonh001
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby mvonh001 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:13 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:I think I answered everything that I wanted to talk about. Thank you to everyone for your participation on this thread.


If my goal was to become a Criminal Defense Attorney, what route should I take? Big Law Litigation - after clerking with a city or state judge, DA office, PD office?

Thanks.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:13 pm

mvonh001 wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:I think I answered everything that I wanted to talk about. Thank you to everyone for your participation on this thread.


If my goal was to become a Criminal Defense Attorney, what route should I take? Big Law Litigation - after clerking with a city or state judge, DA office, PD office?

Thanks.


All of the criminal lawyers I know personally say that the DA's office is the best pathway. They hear that from other lawyers, too. You will get several trials under your belt. You will come to know criminal procedure like the back of your hand and most importantly, you will work for your future opposition.

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mvonh001
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby mvonh001 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:15 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:
mvonh001 wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:I think I answered everything that I wanted to talk about. Thank you to everyone for your participation on this thread.


If my goal was to become a Criminal Defense Attorney, what route should I take? Big Law Litigation - after clerking with a city or state judge, DA office, PD office?

Thanks.


All of the criminal lawyers I know personally say that the DA's office is the best pathway. They hear that from other lawyers, too. You will get several trials under your belt. You will come to know criminal procedure like the back of your hand and most importantly, you will work for your future opposition.


So to get the DA position, is it advised to go to the best school you can get in to or to the best regional school? My state is FL and I would love to start a criminal defense firm here - i know, it's one of the millions already, lol.

For example, if i were to get into duke with 50k uva with 40k vandy with 80k and UF with 30k which would you suggest?

And follow up: So big law litigation is not the advised route to develop white collar criminal ties and develop a name for one's self?

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:58 pm

mvonh001 wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:
mvonh001 wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:I think I answered everything that I wanted to talk about. Thank you to everyone for your participation on this thread.


If my goal was to become a Criminal Defense Attorney, what route should I take? Big Law Litigation - after clerking with a city or state judge, DA office, PD office?

Thanks.


All of the criminal lawyers I know personally say that the DA's office is the best pathway. They hear that from other lawyers, too. You will get several trials under your belt. You will come to know criminal procedure like the back of your hand and most importantly, you will work for your future opposition.


So to get the DA position, is it advised to go to the best school you can get in to or to the best regional school? My state is FL and I would love to start a criminal defense firm here - i know, it's one of the millions already, lol.

For example, if i were to get into duke with 50k uva with 40k vandy with 80k and UF with 30k which would you suggest?

And follow up: So big law litigation is not the advised route to develop white collar criminal ties and develop a name for one's self?


Biglaw will not help you at all for criminal defense practice because you will learn nothing about criminal law. The most important relationships you need to develop are the ones you create with other prosecutors and criminal law judges. Not gaining trial experience for becoming a criminal defense attorney is nothing to dismiss. No one will want you if your trial skills suck. Plus you won't have those relationships I referred to earlier.

As for school, it's always best to go to the best school depending on your finances. There may be some quirks depending on the region. But going to the best school is the wisest decision.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:44 pm

If you are trying to decide what law school you should attend based on your numbers, I advise you to ask your question on the "choosing a law school" forum so that they can help you make a more informed decision. That outside of my knowledge base other than knowing what law schools are the most selective. Although, if I had to guess, UF Law should be eliminated from consideration based on your choices. It clearly is outmatched. You want to go to a school where you are surrounded by highly intelligent students, especially if you want to enter into private practice for yourself. Your experience in law school outiside of class is also important because of the intellectual conversations addressing both real and hypothetical issues that you will have outside of class. It's this brainstorming of issues that will help prepare you to do your own brainstorming when you get your cases. You don't want to shy away from taking cases because you don't know how to handle the heavy lifting for them. Every case I have had has been something I have had to learn myself and come up with my own legal and factual theories. Going to a top law school will help you in that mental exercise. I credit UT Law for equipping me with the ability to do that. Much of that is dependent upon the inherent ability of the lawyer to do that regardless of the school attended. But you want to go to a school that better heightens that ability. And I think top law schools do that, in part, because of the high quality student bodies that they accept.
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:09 pm

Top law schools are selective, not just because of the numbers, but because they also look at an applicants ability to craft and articulate ideas and arguments. They look at one's writing. LSAT scores don't reflect this because they can't. GPA's don't really control for this either. There is a reason why Michigan asked for three to five essays when I applied. All law schools don't do this. LSAT scores are heavily influenced by processing speed which is very important for first year law school success. Hence, the LSAT, in predictive measurement and correlative terms, does a good job of predicting first year law school success. I know it's like .4 or something like that, but that is high in the statistics world of predicting cognitive ability. My brother has his doctorate in psychology and informed me of that truth. But quality writing is an excellent predictor of long term success as a lawyer since processing speed is not as important depending on the practice area of the lawyer. I have always felt that the schools that are very unpredictable, in terms of whom they admit, rely more heavily on writing than others. So I would imagine that Stanford relies more on the writing ability of the applicant than Harvard. That's just a guess, but that would appear to be the missing x factor that makes Stanford admissions so unpredictable.

My overall point is that the quality of your student body is very important to your law school education. And that helps you when going out by yourself. When you enter law practice on the civil litigation side, you'll find that both lawyers and judges, alike, cling to inside the box arguments as solutions to disputes. You'll quickly begin to think that all of that theory you learned in law school was impractical and useless in the real world. Well, I have learned in my short career that that is just not true. But it takes big balls to press on ahead by yourself. Going to a top law school gives you that confidence to do so. That's why I always say to take older lawyers' take on things with a huge grain of salt. Rely on them to tell you about procedural rules. Do not rely on them to tell you about how to craft legal and factual theories. If you can come up with a better argument and they say it can't be done, they are wrong. And I have learned that truth from personal experience.

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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:43 pm

ksllaw wrote:Just a quick follow-up question, utlaw.

Have you ever done free seminars for your business, where you give out some free advice to a group of people while using it as an opportunity to also get your name out and hand out business cards?

The husband of my cousin's best friend works in small law as a bankruptcy attorney and she was telling me that the guy frequently goes out of town to do seminars related to his practice. Didn't get any details more specific than that (although I asked if she could find out more - never met the guy myself), but found that interesting.



I am sorry. I missed this question. I may have glossed over it because I mentioned earlier in my thread. But yes, I do give out free seminars. Doing so places you in front of potential clients. It's a necessity if you want a lot of business.

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scifiguy
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby scifiguy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:58 pm

What about doing DUI seminars on college campuses? :lol:

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:19 pm

For those of you that have been thinking about opening up their own firm right out or shortly out of law school, please read this thread. I give lots of advice relating to law firm ownership/business practices.

I don't have time to reread my own thread, but I wanted to add another bit of very important advice that I don't think I included the first time around.

I've been doing this for sometime now and my methods have held true. I know this is anecdotal, but as I explained much earlier in this or some other thread, solo numbers are terribly flawed because they don't distinguish among practice areas or the types of cases within a practice area. There is little you can do other than build a great rep as far as getting high quality cases in a given practice area. But when you start out, there is a lot you can do with with respect to choosing a more potentially lucrative practice area in your locale. As you gain more experience, your practice areas should increase in difficulty. Never dispense with the easier stuff, though. You want to have as many revenue streams as possible.

For instance, very recently, I have expanded to oil and gas litigation and securities litigation, in addition to my already existing practice areas, commercial/corporate/contact litigation, including arbitration clause enforceability issues, employment discrimination, products liability, constitutional law/civil rights, construction litigation, and intentional torts and any other really novel legal issue that is difficult and no one else wants to mess with, provided I can bring some value to the case to make it worth pursuing. And this brings me to my point about your reputation. Get to know former law school classmates and other solos in your area. Just like you should showcase your expertise with prospective clients, showcase that expertise with colleagues. Of course, you really can't do this until you gain some experience. But it doesn't take long, though. Blog as much as you can through social media and your website. Most solos don't showcase their expertise enough. You don't have to know everything at the highest level possible. But you went to law school, hopefully a solid one. And you've been practicing for a while. So showcase that knowledge. You have nothing to lose because it's not like successful lawyers will refer cases to you if you don't say anything. They won't trust you enough. If you end up saying stuff they don't like or stuff that is inaccurate, they won't refer stuff to you anyway. But here's the deal, this is where self study and thoroughness on your research for cases you do have come in. Just don't speak about stuff unless you have researched the issue. That way, you will likely never be wrong. Also, if you are unsure about one smaller issue in relation to a larger issue that you have a good handle on, explain that out loud. That shows that you have a great understanding of the subject matter and your colleagues will respect your knowledge. And this may lead to more referrals from them.

When you do this, you increase your chances of getting really high quality cases through colleague referrals. The securities case I have is the largest case I have ever had. It concerns a humongous transaction by a fortune 100 company. It bought a start up for an astronomical amount of money. I'm suing that fortune 100 company. It will be difficult, but all my cases are. It's the culmination of the reputation that I have built. My initial advice still holds true for building business without a reputation, but you always want to grow/establish your reputation so you can get a more consistent flow of high value cases.

Also, opening your own firm is a solid biglaw exit option. I have persuaded many colleagues to do it once they left firm employment. Again, it's not for everyone by a long shot, but it is worth a shot for the others...

wannabee
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby wannabee » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:36 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:talk to me about dui lawyers. i've seen some charging 10 grand per case. how hard is it to defend a dui?


The going rate for a DUI in Texas is $5000 upfront and then an additional $10,000 if it goes to trial. I don't think they go to trial often. When a person is charged with a DUI, you have to (or you should, at least) go down to the courthouse and see if the complaint is properly made by the state. That takes very little time. Then you have to go to the DA's office and request to see the tape of the incident. Then you get your arguments together and go talk to the prosecutor handling the case to get a plea deal. Then help your client fill out the paper work and I think you're done.

There are some procedural matters that you have to take care of during this process, but they are not big. They just involve appearing before the judge and constantly resetting your dates if you have a lot of criminal cases. Your docket calls are going to overlap in criminal court if you have a lot of cases so resetting settings is very common.

It's not hard to attempt to defend. If you're client was stone drunk, you are trying to get a plea for him/her anyway. You get paid to put on a defense, not to win. So put on a good defense so you can sleep at night. It doesn't take a lot of work. It is more involving if you have to bail your client out of jail and all of that, but not much more.

You do need to learn the science behind the breathalyzer, but that is not hard.

DUI's will easily make you well off. The challenge is making the right connections with the demographic who can pay that money. It's not hard to find them. The hard part is making those connections.

But basically, it's an incredibly easy way to make $5000. That's why criminal law absent murder and other high level felonies that require complicated science is a great practice area.


If you had to guess, how long would it take a very skilled lawyer to get to 250k+ in profits with a solo criminal practice and above average marketing in your market? Obviously most do not get here, but would be interested to hear your opinion with these assumptions.

FutureLitigator
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby FutureLitigator » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:46 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:Biglaw will not help you at all for criminal defense practice because you will learn nothing about criminal law. The most important relationships you need to develop are the ones you create with other prosecutors and criminal law judges. Not gaining trial experience for becoming a criminal defense attorney is nothing to dismiss. No one will want you if your trial skills suck. Plus you won't have those relationships I referred to earlier.

As for school, it's always best to go to the best school depending on your finances. There may be some quirks depending on the region. But going to the best school is the wisest decision.


How about BigLaw litigation for prepping you to then start a criminal defense & litigation firm by partnering with a trial lawyer ?

rdawkins28
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby rdawkins28 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:06 am

wannabee wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:talk to me about dui lawyers. i've seen some charging 10 grand per case. how hard is it to defend a dui?


The going rate for a DUI in Texas is $5000 upfront and then an additional $10,000 if it goes to trial. I don't think they go to trial often. When a person is charged with a DUI, you have to (or you should, at least) go down to the courthouse and see if the complaint is properly made by the state. That takes very little time. Then you have to go to the DA's office and request to see the tape of the incident. Then you get your arguments together and go talk to the prosecutor handling the case to get a plea deal. Then help your client fill out the paper work and I think you're done.

There are some procedural matters that you have to take care of during this process, but they are not big. They just involve appearing before the judge and constantly resetting your dates if you have a lot of criminal cases. Your docket calls are going to overlap in criminal court if you have a lot of cases so resetting settings is very common.

It's not hard to attempt to defend. If you're client was stone drunk, you are trying to get a plea for him/her anyway. You get paid to put on a defense, not to win. So put on a good defense so you can sleep at night. It doesn't take a lot of work. It is more involving if you have to bail your client out of jail and all of that, but not much more.

You do need to learn the science behind the breathalyzer, but that is not hard.

DUI's will easily make you well off. The challenge is making the right connections with the demographic who can pay that money. It's not hard to find them. The hard part is making those connections.

But basically, it's an incredibly easy way to make $5000. That's why criminal law absent murder and other high level felonies that require complicated science is a great practice area.


If you had to guess, how long would it take a very skilled lawyer to get to 250k+ in profits with a solo criminal practice and above average marketing in your market? Obviously most do not get here, but would be interested to hear your opinion with these assumptions.


I know several people who graduated from the local TTTs who got 250K+ within about 4-5 years after graduation. So just some anecdotes. No statistics.

1. Graduated #1. Shrew business person. First went with internet marketing, then expanded to TV marketing by using an outside lead generation firm. Never goes to trial. Most cases settled even before mediation. Only does personal injury. Works from home. Has virtual office.

2. Graduated #2. Former CPA (but hadn't done CPA work for a long time). After graduation, got lucky doing some taxes for some former colleagues. The rest of the clientele came from these initial former colleagues. Mostly small business owners so small business type of stuff.

3. Graduated Middle. Did a lot of billboard advertising. Very successful DWI defense business.

4. Graduated Middle. Lots of street smart. Borrowed 50K at first to do mass mailing. Business was mostly property tax defense, but then that lead to other opportunities.

5. Graduated Middle. Dumb as f*ck when it comes to the law. But good salesman. Clients seem to love and trust him even though he's terrible.

One common thing about these people is that their legal skills aren't exactly their forte. But they have a certain business sense, personal charm, and the balls to go out on their own.

Of course for every one of these success stories, I know of at least as many failure stories.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:35 pm

I know several people who graduated from the local TTTs who got 250K+ within about 4-5 years after graduation. So just some anecdotes. No statistics.

1. Graduated #1. Shrew business person. First went with internet marketing, then expanded to TV marketing by using an outside lead generation firm. Never goes to trial. Most cases settled even before mediation. Only does personal injury. Works from home. Has virtual office.

2. Graduated #2. Former CPA (but hadn't done CPA work for a long time). After graduation, got lucky doing some taxes for some former colleagues. The rest of the clientele came from these initial former colleagues. Mostly small business owners so small business type of stuff.

3. Graduated Middle. Did a lot of billboard advertising. Very successful DWI defense business.

4. Graduated Middle. Lots of street smart. Borrowed 50K at first to do mass mailing. Business was mostly property tax defense, but then that lead to other opportunities.

5. Graduated Middle. Dumb as f*ck when it comes to the law. But good salesman. Clients seem to love and trust him even though he's terrible.

One common thing about these people is that their legal skills aren't exactly their forte. But they have a certain business sense, personal charm, and the balls to go out on their own.

Of course for every one of these success stories, I know of at least as many failure stories.


This is very true. Success and failure stories are diverse. But the key to having a shot at success is marketing/getting to know people and leaving such a good impression that people, lawyers or laypeople, want to refer you to other people.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:37 pm

However, the better your legal skills, the better your chances because you can have success with difficult cases. You also increase the chances of you getting referrals.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:51 pm

wannabee wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:talk to me about dui lawyers. i've seen some charging 10 grand per case. how hard is it to defend a dui?


The going rate for a DUI in Texas is $5000 upfront and then an additional $10,000 if it goes to trial. I don't think they go to trial often. When a person is charged with a DUI, you have to (or you should, at least) go down to the courthouse and see if the complaint is properly made by the state. That takes very little time. Then you have to go to the DA's office and request to see the tape of the incident. Then you get your arguments together and go talk to the prosecutor handling the case to get a plea deal. Then help your client fill out the paper work and I think you're done.

There are some procedural matters that you have to take care of during this process, but they are not big. They just involve appearing before the judge and constantly resetting your dates if you have a lot of criminal cases. Your docket calls are going to overlap in criminal court if you have a lot of cases so resetting settings is very common.

It's not hard to attempt to defend. If you're client was stone drunk, you are trying to get a plea for him/her anyway. You get paid to put on a defense, not to win. So put on a good defense so you can sleep at night. It doesn't take a lot of work. It is more involving if you have to bail your client out of jail and all of that, but not much more.

You do need to learn the science behind the breathalyzer, but that is not hard.

DUI's will easily make you well off. The challenge is making the right connections with the demographic who can pay that money. It's not hard to find them. The hard part is making those connections.

But basically, it's an incredibly easy way to make $5000. That's why criminal law absent murder and other high level felonies that require complicated science is a great practice area.


If you had to guess, how long would it take a very skilled lawyer to get to 250k+ in profits with a solo criminal practice and above average marketing in your market? Obviously most do not get here, but would be interested to hear your opinion with these assumptions.


It's hard to say because DWI requires volume and from what I hear, ebbs and flows. I don't practice DWI so I don't have firsthand knowledge. Areas that have lots of teen or young adult drivers are good. So college towns are probably really good. Places with lots of nightlife spots are obviously good. To generate that much revenue with a volume practice is going to take time. I would say four years. However, there is a good chance depending on your area it may not happen. But in Houston, I would say maybe four years. You may be able reach over 6 figures in two years, but that's a big maybe. There is one caveat, though. Depending on one or two practice areas is dangerous because you are at the mercy of market conditions. Kind of like investing. You want to diversify in case your one or two investments fall through.

So yes, DWI could give you that much money in revenue after a few years, but if for some inexplicable reason, the market dries up temporarily (this happens a lot from what I hear), you're screwed. And markets ebb and flow all the time with respect to volume practices.

I hate family law, but divorce could maybe render you 250k plus in three years, maybe sooner in some cases. You could reach six figures a little quicker, too. I've never heard of the demand for divorces drying up. There are divorces everywhere. I'm always asked about whether I do divorces. , Family law may not render you the most money after you get going a long time, but it seems like it may be the quickest to making you a considerable amount of money.

That being said, I hate to place time tables of success on things because success may never come. You might be in an area where many lawyers succeed with average ability in a given area. But for some reason, it just doesn't happen for you. It's kind of like basketball, you may have a wide open shot that is pretty close to the basket. And you are a great shooter, but you still miss the shot. All you can do is place yourself in the best position to succeed, but it still may not happen.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:43 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:53 pm

Divorces take a little more effort than criminal misdemeanors, it seems. You have to attend a few hearings. I don't really know what is all involved, but it seems to be more than your typical criminal misdemeanor defense.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:05 pm

FutureLitigator wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:Biglaw will not help you at all for criminal defense practice because you will learn nothing about criminal law. The most important relationships you need to develop are the ones you create with other prosecutors and criminal law judges. Not gaining trial experience for becoming a criminal defense attorney is nothing to dismiss. No one will want you if your trial skills suck. Plus you won't have those relationships I referred to earlier.

As for school, it's always best to go to the best school depending on your finances. There may be some quirks depending on the region. But going to the best school is the wisest decision.


How about BigLaw litigation for prepping you to then start a criminal defense & litigation firm by partnering with a trial lawyer ?


Biglaw litigation won't help you at all with starting any kind of litigation practice, especially criminal litigation. But it really won't help with civil lit either. The problem with biglaw being a way to prep is that it does not allow for you to see the big picture, which is essential for prep. Thankfully, you can get your litigation prep by just diving into a case once you go out on your own. With criminal law, you better be more careful because you're playing with someone's freedom, essentially. Biglaw litigation is too narrow, in terms of the skill set you develop. You're privy to only a small picture of what is going on with a case until you get to be more senior. And even then, I've heard from people that it is really hard to see the big picture. Writing summary judgments, something that gives you the biggest picture you will see on a case in biglaw, provides you with very little preparation for plaintiff's litigation. You'll know what issues to overcome on summary judgment. So that is helpful. But you won't know how to satisfy those requirements. Critiquing an argument is a whole lot easier than building one, including gathering the evidence to support that argument.

And as far as Summary Judgments go, I think you will have had to be with a firm for 5 plus years before you're allowed to write them. I could be wrong, but based on what I have heard from former law school classmates and what I have seen from opposing counsel (I used to read bios on all of my competition), the minimum I've seen is about 5 years.
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:10 pm

And even with writing Summary Judgments, that does not include building the case for the defense. you're just attacking the sufficiency of the evidence for the plaintiff. You may highlight strengths in the defense's evidence so as to show the court there is no genuine issue of material fact. But you don't plan the case, nor do you decide what evidence you are going to get to help the defense. Those are decisions that are crucial to plaintiff case building prep. Case building is two fold. You create the legal and factual arguments. Then you go out and gather the evidence you need to support those arguments.Writing mainly only summary judgments is a whole lot different from building the case for the defense, including gathering the evidence for the defense.

Biglaw and most law firms regardless of size, do not prep you for this.

utlaw2007
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Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:28 am

250k+ in profits with a solo criminal practice


Sorry, I didn't catch this the first time.

This is just a guess, but I would say maybe three years, maybe two, best case scenario, possibly even quicker. Criminal defense is no joke. If Someone has connections to where they could pick the brains of a criminal defense attorney that does murders and other high level felonies requiring ballistic or DNA testing, and you can get clients, you're good to go. The complications from many of those cases arises from knowing what tests to get. They teach you this stuff in lots of criminal defense CLE's.

The minimum for murder is like $20,000. That's the minimum. It seems the regular rate among experienced attorneys is like $60,000. Now of course, how many people do you run into that are charged with murder? It's not common, but it can happen if you market in the right places. I represented a client that could have easily been charged with murder. He was part of a murder investigation. He was a kid. I could have charged his parents all sorts of money.

You can charge high for rape or aggravated assault or any high level felony. I imagine that they go for like $10,000 to $15,000. Low level felonies are like $5,000 to $7500. Misdemeanors go for between $1500 to $2500.

But $250,000 a year is pretty high, unless you have a rep. You can crack $150k easy. You could do this in two years if you really hustle in the right places. I don't know about 250k. It's no different from DWI's alone, although it's much easier because you have more practice areas. But to get that high, you need some volume, a lot of it. It's not like you're going to get several murder cases.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: making sh&%$ law pay you well

Postby utlaw2007 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:41 am

utlaw2007 wrote:
250k+ in profits with a solo criminal practice


Sorry, I didn't catch this the first time.

This is just a guess, but I would say maybe three years, maybe two, best case scenario, possibly even quicker. Criminal defense is no joke. If Someone has connections to where they could pick the brains of a criminal defense attorney that does murders and other high level felonies requiring ballistic or DNA testing, and you can get clients, you're good to go. The complications from many of those cases arises from knowing what tests to get. They teach you this stuff in lots of criminal defense CLE's.

The minimum for murder is like $20,000. That's the minimum. It seems the regular rate among experienced attorneys is like $60,000. Now of course, how many people do you run into that are charged with murder? It's not common, but it can happen if you market in the right places. I represented a client that could have easily been charged with murder. He was part of a murder investigation. He was a kid. I could have charged his parents all sorts of money.

You can charge high for rape or aggravated assault or any high level felony. I imagine that they go for like $10,000 to $15,000. Low level felonies are like $5,000. Misdemeanors go for between $1500 to $2500.

But $250,000 a year is pretty high, unless you have a rep. You can crack $150k easy. You could do this in two years if you really hustle in the right places. I don't know about 250k. It's no different from DWI's alone, although it's much easier because you have more practice areas. But to get that high, you need some volume, a lot of it. It's not like you're going to get several murder cases.


That being said, with steady practice and getting pretty good at what you do and being able to take on tons of volume, which is possible, but you'll be working a lot, I would say it could take as little as three years. But there is a good chance it may never happen for you. It really depends on how well people like you or gravitate to you. And how well you command authority with regular people. And ultimately it depends on if the people you know are getting into trouble or not.

Best way to get business as a criminal defense attorney is to get to know a bunch of civil lawyers so they can refer all their criminal cases to you.




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