Texas Legal Market

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jcg
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Texas Legal Market

Postby jcg » Sat May 18, 2013 3:53 pm

I live in Cali and don't want schools here. I have a job offer at a bank in Detroit. Decent money ~40 per year but I have to live in Detroit :( I've been accepted to a school in Dallas with pretty good employment numbers. I'm curious as to your thoughts on the Texas legal market, in particular Dallas. The economy is doing pretty bad in a lot of other places but Dallas, I've heard, has done pretty well.

rad lulz
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Sat May 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Just go look at the LST profile for that school.

lawschooltransparency.com

jcg
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby jcg » Sat May 18, 2013 4:20 pm

I did but the school doesn't give much info about salary range and I'm not sure if schools can be trusted to present 100% accurate information.

rad lulz
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Sat May 18, 2013 4:26 pm

jcg wrote:I did but the school doesn't give much info about salary range and I'm not sure if schools can be trusted to present 100% accurate information.

Entry level legal salaries are bimodal. Outside of large firms, you're probably gonna make $40-$60k


Image

http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib

jcg
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby jcg » Sat May 18, 2013 4:30 pm

I have seen a lot of this information. I'm not looking for a job in NYC or LA, so I don't care about national averages. I'm concerned with the Texas Legal Market, Dallas in particular.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Sat May 18, 2013 4:40 pm

jcg wrote:I have seen a lot of this information. I'm not looking for a job in NYC or LA, so I don't care about national averages. I'm concerned with the Texas Legal Market, Dallas in particular.


Dallas is tougher than Houston. If you're looking at SMU, then it's not a terrible decision to go to law school (assuming you are dead-set on dallas and aren't paying sticker). I don't know much about that new A&M law school, but I assume it's probably not worth going there.

In terms of the market itself, Dallas SA classes are much smaller than Houston classes, so it's definitely harder to land a well paying job.

pastapplicant
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby pastapplicant » Sat May 18, 2013 4:59 pm

Dallas is indeed tougher than Houston and they tend to dig more into why Dallas specifically even for those who have TX ties. If you have never lived in TX or did not go to UG here that will be another "X" for you. You should not go to SMU without a very significant scholarship especially someone in your position. UT is probably the only school that will give you the best chance to place in Dallas (or Houston for that matter) outside of HYS if you do not have ties.

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courtneylove
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby courtneylove » Sun May 19, 2013 6:06 pm

jcg wrote:I have a job offer at a bank in Detroit. Decent money ~40 per year but I have to live in Detroit :(


Take the job and move after a year or so. There are banks all over the country. $40k seems low now but just wait until you're working for $40k while $100k in debt.

Detroit is dumpy but the suburbs are nice, right? Michigan people at my school are crazed about how great Michigan is in the summer.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby Stanford4Me » Sun May 19, 2013 6:11 pm

Take the job brah. If you want Dallas Big Law with no connections you need either top top grades at SMU (never a guarantee), or T14/UT (still not a guarantee from UT).

LegalEase16
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby LegalEase16 » Sun May 19, 2013 8:38 pm

I don't think you'd have a problem breaking into the Dallas market coming from SMU. You'll have plenty of networking opportunities, and SMU alumni are very concentrated there and loyal. However, it depends on how badly you want to practice law over accepting your current bank offer and how much debt you'd accumulate if you attend SMU.
I know I want to end up in Dallas and only Dallas, so I'm leaning heavily toward attending SMU (with a named scholly) over UT b/c I'd have to be pretty high up in the class at either school to break into the larger firms in Dallas. If you want to be in Dallas practicing law, go to SMU. If you're only interested in biglaw and are taking on tons of debt, bad choice.
Texas definitely has one of the better economies (more and more companies are moving their headquarters here and we have 6 of the 25 largest cities in the U.S.) and an excellent COL on top of that.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Sun May 19, 2013 8:56 pm

courtneylove wrote:Detroit is dumpy but the suburbs are nice, right?

Detroit isn't THAT bad. There are some really high income areas in the burbs. Oakland County is one of the highest income counties in the country.

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patrickd139
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby patrickd139 » Sun May 19, 2013 9:19 pm

jcg wrote:I live in Cali and don't want schools here. I have a job offer at a bank in Detroit. Decent money ~40 per year but I have to live in Detroit :( I've been accepted to a school in Dallas with pretty good employment numbers. I'm curious as to your thoughts on the Texas legal market, in particular Dallas. The economy is doing pretty bad in a lot of other places but Dallas, I've heard, has done pretty well.

Vitally important question: Which school in Dallas? There are only three.

If it's TTTexas Wesleyan or UNTTT, don't even bother. At any price.

SMU might be worth moving to Dallas sans-ties if you have a substantial scholarship. Even then, it's a sizable risk.

utlaw2007
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby utlaw2007 » Mon May 20, 2013 12:37 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
jcg wrote:I have seen a lot of this information. I'm not looking for a job in NYC or LA, so I don't care about national averages. I'm concerned with the Texas Legal Market, Dallas in particular.


Dallas is tougher than Houston. If you're looking at SMU, then it's not a terrible decision to go to law school (assuming you are dead-set on dallas and aren't paying sticker). I don't know much about that new A&M law school, but I assume it's probably not worth going there.

In terms of the market itself, Dallas SA classes are much smaller than Houston classes, so it's definitely harder to land a well paying job.


The new A&M law school is not new. A&M bought it. It's Texas Weslayan and it's a terrible law school. Unless you are going to SMU, I would not bother going to law school. And even coming out of SMU, you have to have great grades. In some aspects, Dallas is harder to get and in others, Houston is harder to get because more people want Houston than Dallas, at least when I was at UT that was the case. The Dallas legal market is a bit smaller than Houston's. So from that perspective, it is harder to get. But more people want Houston. And for this reason, Dallas does care more about ties. Because those firms want to make sure you are not going to leave for Houston as soon as you can. I got dinged at a Dallas firm because I was from Houston. This is not true of all Dallas firms, obviously. But that was still crazy in my book. I have infinite Texas ties being from Houston, I have lived here all my life, but had no Dallas ties so I was dinged.

utlaw2007
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby utlaw2007 » Mon May 20, 2013 12:52 pm

But to answer your question, the Dallas and Houston markets are doing well compared to other markets as far as economies go. That being said, they are still suffering, just not nearly as much. And if you don't go to the right school, the answer to your question is meaningless because you won't benefit from any market strength.

jcg
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby jcg » Mon May 20, 2013 1:17 pm

Thank you for the responses. The school is SMU.

SPerez
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby SPerez » Thu May 23, 2013 12:09 pm

patrickd139 wrote:Vitally important question: Which school in Dallas? There are only three.


There is only one law school in Dallas, SMU.

Texas Wesleyan (not-yet-but-soon-to-be Texas A&M School of Law at Texas Wesleyan University) is in Fort Worth, which I've found any resident of either Ft. Worth or Dallas to be quick to explain they are not the same thing. The transfer to A&M will probably be completed and finalized during the next cycle so 13-14 applicants will probably apply with the Blue & Gold of TxWesleyan on materials, but will likely learn how to Whoop at Orientation when the time comes.

University of North Texas's law school barely exists after years of "we're coming". Last I heard they have 2 employees, the dean and their associate dean of academic affairs, and a building (that needs to be renovated). I believe they're still looking for their admissions person. If it does ever open, it will be in downtown Dallas and will be unaccredited for at least the first 3 years.

Dean Perez
Texas Tech University School of Law

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tfer2222
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby tfer2222 » Thu May 23, 2013 12:28 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
jcg wrote:I have seen a lot of this information. I'm not looking for a job in NYC or LA, so I don't care about national averages. I'm concerned with the Texas Legal Market, Dallas in particular.


Dallas is tougher than Houston. If you're looking at SMU, then it's not a terrible decision to go to law school (assuming you are dead-set on dallas and aren't paying sticker). I don't know much about that new A&M law school, but I assume it's probably not worth going there.

In terms of the market itself, Dallas SA classes are much smaller than Houston classes, so it's definitely harder to land a well paying job.


The new A&M law school is not new. A&M bought it. It's Texas Weslayan and it's a terrible law school. Unless you are going to SMU, I would not bother going to law school. And even coming out of SMU, you have to have great grades. In some aspects, Dallas is harder to get and in others, Houston is harder to get because more people want Houston than Dallas, at least when I was at UT that was the case. The Dallas legal market is a bit smaller than Houston's. So from that perspective, it is harder to get. But more people want Houston. And for this reason, Dallas does care more about ties. Because those firms want to make sure you are not going to leave for Houston as soon as you can. I got dinged at a Dallas firm because I was from Houston. This is not true of all Dallas firms, obviously. But that was still crazy in my book. I have infinite Texas ties being from Houston, I have lived here all my life, but had no Dallas ties so I was dinged.


I agree with everything but the underlined. I've never met anyone who likes/wanted Houston except for people who are originally from Houston.

but yes, much bigger SA classes in Houston, bigger market, and it's where the big tex hubs are, so perhaps in that sense its more desirable.

utlaw2007
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby utlaw2007 » Thu May 23, 2013 7:28 pm

tfer2222 wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
jcg wrote:I have seen a lot of this information. I'm not looking for a job in NYC or LA, so I don't care about national averages. I'm concerned with the Texas Legal Market, Dallas in particular.


Dallas is tougher than Houston. If you're looking at SMU, then it's not a terrible decision to go to law school (assuming you are dead-set on dallas and aren't paying sticker). I don't know much about that new A&M law school, but I assume it's probably not worth going there.

In terms of the market itself, Dallas SA classes are much smaller than Houston classes, so it's definitely harder to land a well paying job.


The new A&M law school is not new. A&M bought it. It's Texas Weslayan and it's a terrible law school. Unless you are going to SMU, I would not bother going to law school. And even coming out of SMU, you have to have great grades. In some aspects, Dallas is harder to get and in others, Houston is harder to get because more people want Houston than Dallas, at least when I was at UT that was the case. The Dallas legal market is a bit smaller than Houston's. So from that perspective, it is harder to get. But more people want Houston. And for this reason, Dallas does care more about ties. Because those firms want to make sure you are not going to leave for Houston as soon as you can. I got dinged at a Dallas firm because I was from Houston. This is not true of all Dallas firms, obviously. But that was still crazy in my book. I have infinite Texas ties being from Houston, I have lived here all my life, but had no Dallas ties so I was dinged.


I agree with everything but the underlined. I've never met anyone who likes/wanted Houston except for people who are originally from Houston.

but yes, much bigger SA classes in Houston, bigger market, and it's where the big tex hubs are, so perhaps in that sense its more desirable.


Just because you've never met them doesn't mean they don't exist. But I will agree with you that one's preference does come down to personal taste and experiences. But I had several classmates who preferred Houston over Dallas. In fact, every out of stater I knew preferred Houston over Dallas.

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tfer2222
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby tfer2222 » Thu May 23, 2013 7:59 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:
Just because you've never met them doesn't mean they don't exist. But I will agree with you that one's preference does come down to personal taste and experiences. But I had several classmates who preferred Houston over Dallas. In fact, every out of stater I knew preferred Houston over Dallas.


Good point.

However, as an out of stater, I prefer Dallas. So now you know of at least one.
Last edited by tfer2222 on Fri May 24, 2013 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby kalvano » Thu May 23, 2013 11:14 pm

Houston is a vile swamp full of trollops, malcontents, and ne'er-do-wells.

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togepi
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby togepi » Fri May 24, 2013 3:40 am

kalvano wrote:Houston is a vile swamp full of trollops, malcontents, and ne'er-do-wells.


The law school? :)

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patrickd139
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Re: Texas Legal Market

Postby patrickd139 » Fri May 24, 2013 8:25 am

togepi wrote:
kalvano wrote:Houston is a vile swamp full of trollops, malcontents, and ne'er-do-wells.


The law school? :)

Is it in Houston? :wink:




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