Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
shock259
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby shock259 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:40 pm

EvilClinton wrote:
This shit is random so stop pretending like you understand how to game the system because you read some threads on TLS.


Randomness is a part of the equation but it can't explain everything. Some people do consistently better than others. There's something to that.

juzam_djinn
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:23 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby juzam_djinn » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:45 pm

kapital98 wrote:
scifiguy wrote:
shock259 wrote:Did my first year at a school in the 40s, transferred to CLS. I dropped about ~10-15% in class rank at my new school. And I studied SUBSTANTIALLY less. So based on my experiences, there is not an overwhelming difference in the caliber of students at a T14.


But, shock, isn't 1L considered the most difficult year, whereas the 2nd and 3rd years are less so? Not sure if that factors in...?


No. It's harder and easier for everyone. With few exceptions, you are still all competing against each other. IMO, almost everyone takes it easier during 2L/3L.

I've had a similar experience to shock259 (t40-->T14). I haven't seen a significant difference in the caliber of students.


this is assuming that, when competition is increased for everyone, the T14 students did not have an extra gear that they ramped up to
i.e. When everyone starts chilling, the level of competition is probably equal throughout all tiers of schools; it's when everyone is hyper competitive that you can see the real differences

It seems very unlikely that top 10% at HYS would have only been top 10% at lower T14, and so on and so forth

I've heard a T10 profs who used to teach at lower T1's and T2's say that, overall, the quality of exams is MUCH better overall at the T10; the diff. is that the top exams are about equivalent throughout (so, top 1% at any school is probably going to be AT LEAST top 10% at any other school)

I think that's why firms typically only go by 1L year hiring; it's the only time that they see everyone's max potential (or at least, close to it)

shock259
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby shock259 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:48 pm

mephistopheles wrote:law school is simple: the people who put in the work and are ready for class and go to the library do well.

this site is filled with bullshit about "it's not about going to the library" and "you can't really ever know until the grades come back" and they're just wrong.

i could have called the top 15% of my class a month and a half into 1L, and i would have been dead on. the people who do well are the people who are competent in class and go to the library more than just to kill time between classes. this site hates strivers so much, but i think that's because of the demonstrated difference in performance. it's not just working smart, it's working smart and hard.

yeah, the people who do well tend to be the intellectual heavyweights, but that shouldn't come as a surprise. i've said it before: good grades in ug only mean that you went to class. a solid majority of the people who come to ls aggrandize their capabilities and get crushed. be real with yourself coming in.


Disagree wholeheartedly with the "competent when called on in class" piece here. My 1L Socratic experiences ranged from average to poor. I remember a 1L professor lectured the class about how we need to read more closely after I totally butchered a cold call. Despite not remembering the facts of whatever case that was, I still booked that class.

And I'd also be shocked if you could tell the top 15% of your class a month and a half into 1L. Most of my classmates were surprised that I did as well as I did. All of the most vocal and seemingly intellectual people in my class got median grades on the exam. Most of the top grades went to the quiet types that are basically indistinguishable from the others, except that they really studied (or just "got it").

That said, I agree with your other point. Putting in the work is huge, and for most people, necessary to do well. But putting in the work alone isn't enough.

User avatar
Sheffield
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:07 am

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby Sheffield » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:53 pm

I do not know of anyone who does not work/study as close to 24/7 as humanly possible. Sometimes they get A’s other times B’s. Take 10 identical widgets using the curve… one will be ranked first and the others will randomly fall in line.

User avatar
Scotusnerd
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby Scotusnerd » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:48 pm

In my (limited) experience, law school exams rest on three things: your ability to perceive issues in the law, your ability to effectively communicate your perception of the issues, and your ability to understand the professors grading style and personal likes/dislikes.

1. Your ability to perceive issues is based on your studying of outlines and paying (some) attention in class. Know the law, know the black , the white, and the gray.

2. Your ability to effective communicate your perception of those issues is based on your writing ability, time management, and practice at writing exams. Additionally, mastery of a technique of writing out issues is recommended (IRAC, CRAC, whatever works for you).

3. Your ability to understand the professor is based on going to class and listening to them, and taking notes. Be comfortable with the professor's expectations on an exam. Also, learn what format of studying the professor prefers. If they recommend studying for an exam a particular way, try it a few times to get comfortable with it. They're saying that because they think it's the best way to study (not that it is for you specifically, but it's a start). Even the shittiest professor will communicate this to you in some form.

Everyone will have number 1 to some degree. Number 2 separates bad exams from good exams. Number 3 separates good exams from great exams.

Out of all of these abilities, I think that number 2 is the most overlooked. Time management during an exam is critical. It doesn't matter how good your answer is to question 1 if you have 15 minutes to do question 4 and have a panic attack. Additionally, having a clear and concise ability to map out issues is crucial. The more issues you can see, the more points you can get (in a point mining exam), the more issues you can address and dismiss(in a traditional issue-spotter), or the faster you can go (on a race-horse exam).

The thing that trips people up with law school exams is that they are graded on a curve, not an objective point level. If everyone did horrible on a question, the person who did the least badly gets the A. Conversely, if the professor scared everyone into studying incredibly hard for that class, it doesn't matter if you know the material cold. If someone else knew it cold and communicated it in a better way than you, they will get the A.

I know that law exams are scary to a lot of people, but it's really not the horror story of randomness that some people claim it is.


Oh...and one more important point.

Success in law school is not measured in grades. Success in law school is measured by getting a job. Grades are a valid means to get to that point, but they are not the only means.

Do not confuse the two.

M458
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby M458 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:09 pm

How long is a typical law exam in terms of hours? Is it basically 10-15 minutes of thinking/jotting down thoughts, followed by the rest of the time just furiously typing?

User avatar
mephistopheles
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:43 am

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby mephistopheles » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:10 pm

M458 wrote:How long is a typical law exam in terms of hours? Is it basically 10-15 minutes of thinking/jotting down thoughts, followed by the rest of the time just furiously typing?



depends. anywhere from 3-4 hours in class to 8-24 hours take home.

User avatar
OutCold
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:57 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby OutCold » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:03 pm

shock259 wrote:
EvilClinton wrote:
This shit is random so stop pretending like you understand how to game the system because you read some threads on TLS.


Randomness is a part of the equation but it can't explain everything. Some people do consistently better than others. There's something to that.

I think that the difference between an A- and a B is pretty random (at a T14). However, those getting A's probably deserved them, and those getting B-'s and C's really had no idea what was going on. Not to say that this is always the case.

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby utlaw2007 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:25 pm

Ultimately, you are not going to know if you have the abilities until you go to law school. And while earning revenue is the most valuable accomplishment one can obtain by going to law school, one must remember that that accomplishment is of little value if one can't keep those streams of revenue open if one is a bad lawyer.

My point is to say that things can get turned upside down on their head as far as who excels as a lawyer and who doesn't. I would guess that the majority of law grads who get jobs, initially, end up ok in the long run. At least they become lawyers. Then you have late bloomers who have to take a detour to becoming a lawyer with an excellent stream of revenue to enjoy. And some of these late bloomers, many times, become the best lawyers of all. But there are some grads of top schools who get jobs with nice firms, initially, but never really pan out as lawyers. You definitely don't want to be any of them.

My point is that you should stop speculating about what is required to succeed in law school, since that is only the tip of the iceberg anyway, and just realize that law school, preferably a good one, is a stepping stone to help get you to where you want to be, which is a competent lawyer who makes good money.

KidStuddi
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:35 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby KidStuddi » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:14 am

mephistopheles wrote:law school is simple: the people who put in the work and are ready for class and go to the library do well.

this site is filled with bullshit about "it's not about going to the library" and "you can't really ever know until the grades come back" and they're just wrong.

i could have called the top 15% of my class a month and a half into 1L, and i would have been dead on. the people who do well are the people who are competent in class and go to the library more than just to kill time between classes. this site hates strivers so much, but i think that's because of the demonstrated difference in performance. it's not just working smart, it's working smart and hard.

yeah, the people who do well tend to be the intellectual heavyweights, but that shouldn't come as a surprise. i've said it before: good grades in ug only mean that you went to class. a solid majority of the people who come to ls aggrandize their capabilities and get crushed. be real with yourself coming in.


Maybe that's how it works at your school, but I was thoroughly surprised by who made law review from my section. Judging how many people called me a "stealth gunner" or told me how surprised they were to see my name listed, it seems not many people could tell that I was kicking their asses either. Ready for class, lol. I was probably the only person in my section to completely pass on multiple cold calls and I couldn't have done much better grade wise.

User avatar
Scotusnerd
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby Scotusnerd » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:27 am

utlaw2007 wrote:Ultimately, you are not going to know if you have the abilities until you go to law school. And while earning revenue is the most valuable accomplishment one can obtain by going to law school, one must remember that that accomplishment is of little value if one can't keep those streams of revenue open if one is a bad lawyer.

My point is to say that things can get turned upside down on their head as far as who excels as a lawyer and who doesn't. I would guess that the majority of law grads who get jobs, initially, end up ok in the long run. At least they become lawyers. Then you have late bloomers who have to take a detour to becoming a lawyer with an excellent stream of revenue to enjoy. And some of these late bloomers, many times, become the best lawyers of all. But there are some grads of top schools who get jobs with nice firms, initially, but never really pan out as lawyers. You definitely don't want to be any of them.

My point is that you should stop speculating about what is required to succeed in law school, since that is only the tip of the iceberg anyway, and just realize that law school, preferably a good one, is a stepping stone to help get you to where you want to be, which is a competent lawyer who makes good money.


This is wise advise. Thanks for sharing!

User avatar
quiver
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby quiver » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:19 pm

I hate these threads. Summary: law school grades are random in the sense of not knowing how well you'll do prior to taking exams. Law school grades are not random (or are minimally random) when looking back and comparing exams. In other words, there's a real difference between an A exam and a B exam but you don't know who will get the A and B beforehand.

KidStuddi wrote:
mephistopheles wrote:law school is simple: the people who put in the work and are ready for class and go to the library do well.

this site is filled with bullshit about "it's not about going to the library" and "you can't really ever know until the grades come back" and they're just wrong.

i could have called the top 15% of my class a month and a half into 1L, and i would have been dead on. the people who do well are the people who are competent in class and go to the library more than just to kill time between classes. this site hates strivers so much, but i think that's because of the demonstrated difference in performance. it's not just working smart, it's working smart and hard.

yeah, the people who do well tend to be the intellectual heavyweights, but that shouldn't come as a surprise. i've said it before: good grades in ug only mean that you went to class. a solid majority of the people who come to ls aggrandize their capabilities and get crushed. be real with yourself coming in.


Maybe that's how it works at your school, but I was thoroughly surprised by who made law review from my section. Judging how many people called me a "stealth gunner" or told me how surprised they were to see my name listed, it seems not many people could tell that I was kicking their asses either. Ready for class, lol. I was probably the only person in my section to completely pass on multiple cold calls and I couldn't have done much better grade wise.
shock259 wrote: Putting in the work is huge, and for most people, necessary to do well. But putting in the work alone isn't enough.
I agree with KidStuddi and shock here. I don't know what school mephistopheles goes to, but that has not been my experience or the experiences of any people I've talked to. The more I'm in law school, the more I think that there is simply a baseline amount of work that someone must put in and the amount of work above that has little correlation to actually grades.

Scotusnerd wrote:
utlaw2007 wrote:Ultimately, you are not going to know if you have the abilities until you go to law school. And while earning revenue is the most valuable accomplishment one can obtain by going to law school, one must remember that that accomplishment is of little value if one can't keep those streams of revenue open if one is a bad lawyer.

My point is to say that things can get turned upside down on their head as far as who excels as a lawyer and who doesn't. I would guess that the majority of law grads who get jobs, initially, end up ok in the long run. At least they become lawyers. Then you have late bloomers who have to take a detour to becoming a lawyer with an excellent stream of revenue to enjoy. And some of these late bloomers, many times, become the best lawyers of all. But there are some grads of top schools who get jobs with nice firms, initially, but never really pan out as lawyers. You definitely don't want to be any of them.

My point is that you should stop speculating about what is required to succeed in law school, since that is only the tip of the iceberg anyway, and just realize that law school, preferably a good one, is a stepping stone to help get you to where you want to be, which is a competent lawyer who makes good money.


This is wise advise. Thanks for sharing!
That's wise advice? I have no idea how that's helpful except to say that law school is a means to an end and that there is no point in speculating about grades (which everyone has said from the start of this thread). Lots of people don't care if they make "good money."

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:07 pm

That's wise advice? I have no idea how that's helpful except to say that law school is a means to an end and that there is no point in speculating about grades (which everyone has said from the start of this thread). Lots of people don't care if they make "good money."


So are you saying that making good grades trumps actual mastering of the subject matter? Because the two do not go hand in hand. Or are you just trying to start an argument?

"Good money" is relative. Apparently, you've never struggled financially. I would assume that everyone wants to be in a position so that he/she doesn't have to struggle financially. And who the hell wants to be a lawyer but doesn't mind being an incompetent one? I did address that, as well.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:14 pm

.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:37 pm

That's wise advice? I have no idea how that's helpful except to say that law school is a means to an end and that there is no point in speculating about grades (which everyone has said from the start of this thread). Lots of people don't care if they make "good money."


Clearly, you didn't get all of what I was trying to say. In addition to me saying that law school is basically a stepping stone, which you did get, I was making a point to say that there is no use stressing about grades because good ones do not automatically mean you will be a good lawyer. And vice versa. If you make good grades at a good law school, it's likely that you will be a good lawyer, but the two, making good grades and being a good lawyer, are not synonymous. Good grades will get you a job, but good grades won't keep that job for you.

I've seen this first hand. I'm basically saying that stressing about grades is futile because making good grades and getting a lawyer job is only the beginning. You have to keep that job by becoming a reliable, competent attorney. If you don't, and grades have absolutely nothing to do with this aspect of practicing law, you won't continue to make money, period.

The gist of my point, which you did not get at all, was to say that OP should keep all of this in perspective and not lose sight of the big picture. When you are in court, getting ready to get your a$$ whooped or whoop someone else's a$$, or aiding in the structuring of a deal, NO ONE is going to give two shits about what kind of grades you made in law school.

If you still don't think that is wise advice, then you will learn the hard way once you are out in practice. That's of course, if you ever make it to becoming an attorney.

User avatar
quiver
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby quiver » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:33 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:So are you saying that making good grades trumps actual mastering of the subject matter? Because the two do not go hand in hand. Or are you just trying to start an argument?
That's not what I was saying but I sort of agree with that anyway. Ideally you would both get good grades and master the subject matter but, if I had to choose only one, I'd choose getting good grades (which usually requires mastering the subject matter anyway).

utlaw2007 wrote:"Good money" is relative. Apparently, you've never struggled financially. I would assume that everyone wants to be in a position so that he/she doesn't have to struggle financially. And who the hell wants to be a lawyer but doesn't mind being an incompetent one? I did address that, as well.
Not sure how you inferred that I've never struggled financially from what I've said. I agree with everything you said in this quote but I think the problem was that you didn't define "good money." To me, good money implies making a lot more beyond simply not struggling financially. Of course nobody wants to struggle but a lot of people don't care if they're making biglaw-type salaries (for example).

utlaw2007 wrote:Clearly, you didn't get all of what I was trying to say. In addition to me saying that law school is basically a stepping stone, which you did get, I was making a point to say that there is no use stressing about grades because good ones do not automatically mean you will be a good lawyer. And vice versa. If you make good grades at a good law school, it's likely that you will be a good lawyer, but the two, making good grades and being a good lawyer, are not synonymous. Good grades will get you a job, but good grades won't keep that job for you.

I've seen this first hand. I'm basically saying that stressing about grades is futile because making good grades and getting a lawyer job is only the beginning. You have to keep that job by becoming a reliable, competent attorney. If you don't, and grades have absolutely nothing to do with this aspect of practicing law, you won't continue to make money, period.

The gist of my point, which you did not get at all, was to say that OP should keep all of this in perspective and not lose sight of the big picture. When you are in court, getting ready to get your a$$ whooped or whoop someone else's a$$, or aiding in the structuring of a deal, NO ONE is going to give two shits about what kind of grades you made in law school.
Ah ok. That clarifies your previous post but I still don't think it's very relevant here. Nobody is arguing that getting good grades makes someone a good lawyer or vice versa. However, to simply not care about grades because they don't matter as much in the long run is just silly. You even pointed out that good grades are important for getting a job (and will not keep that job for you). But the only point of law school is to get you a job and it's impossible to be a good lawyer without a job. So grades are very important.

The real point is that there is no point in worrying about grades because you cannot predict how well you will do. One must simply put in his or her best effort and let the chips fall where they may. But to throw up your hands and say "who cares about grades because it has little bearing on how good I will be as a lawyer" misses the point. You will have a tougher time being a lawyer in the first place if you don't get good grades (depending on the school). You can worry about being a good lawyer once you're in practice.

utlaw2007 wrote:If you still don't think that is wise advice, then you will learn the hard way once you are out in practice. That's of course, if you ever make it to becoming an attorney.
I'm actually in pretty good shape. Thanks for your concern.

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:48 pm

The real point is that there is no point in worrying about grades because you cannot predict how well you will do. One must simply put in his or her best effort and let the chips fall where they may. But to throw up your hands and say "who cares about grades because it has little bearing on how good I will be as a lawyer" misses the point. You will have a tougher time being a lawyer in the first place if you don't get good grades (depending on the school). You can worry about being a good lawyer once you're in practice.


I do agree with most of this post. I'm not saying to hell with grades. I'm saying they do not paint the complete and final picture. So why stress about them? You can do well without stressing about something, you know. And what I said is not relevant to the OP's desire for specific info. My point is to say that stressing about what goes into making good grades is silly. I agree, you should exert your best effort into making ood grades. I never said they were not important. Obviously, they are hugely important. But achieving good grades does not automatically seal the deal to becoming a competent attorney.

A lot of people stress about law school on this site. You just can't put forth your best effort when you are stressed. That is just a psychological truth. So from that perspective, what I said is relevant to the sentiment of OP's post. Continue to stress about this aspect of law school, and you won't perform as well. I'm saying to ease up and look at the big picture. That does not mean that I'm saying there is a lot of room for error. There is not. That means that stressing about this aspect will not improve your performance, because it won't. That's all I'm trying to say.
Last edited by utlaw2007 on Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Renne Walker
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby Renne Walker » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:49 pm

shock259 wrote:Did my first year at a school in the 40s, transferred to CLS. I dropped about ~10-15% in class rank at my new school. And I studied SUBSTANTIALLY less. So based on my experiences, there is not an overwhelming difference in the caliber of students at a T14.

You were in your forties or you were in LS in 1940~something? If the latter, do you still practice law?

User avatar
mephistopheles
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:43 am

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby mephistopheles » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:51 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
shock259 wrote:Did my first year at a school in the 40s, transferred to CLS. I dropped about ~10-15% in class rank at my new school. And I studied SUBSTANTIALLY less. So based on my experiences, there is not an overwhelming difference in the caliber of students at a T14.

You were in your forties or you were in LS in 1940~something? If the latter, do you still practice law?



:?: :?:

User avatar
Dmini7
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:20 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby Dmini7 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:52 pm

mephistopheles wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:
shock259 wrote:Did my first year at a school in the 40s, transferred to CLS. I dropped about ~10-15% in class rank at my new school. And I studied SUBSTANTIALLY less. So based on my experiences, there is not an overwhelming difference in the caliber of students at a T14.

You were in your forties or you were in LS in 1940~something? If the latter, do you still practice law?



:?: :?:


I think he means school ranked in the 40s

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:54 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
shock259 wrote:Did my first year at a school in the 40s, transferred to CLS. I dropped about ~10-15% in class rank at my new school. And I studied SUBSTANTIALLY less. So based on my experiences, there is not an overwhelming difference in the caliber of students at a T14.

You were in your forties or you were in LS in 1940~something? If the latter, do you still practice law?


I think he is saying that he/she attended a law school ranked in the 40's.

User avatar
Renne Walker
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby Renne Walker » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:03 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:I think he is saying that he/she attended a law school ranked in the 40's.

Dmini7 wrote:I think he means school ranked in the 40s


That explains that. Thx.

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby utlaw2007 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:07 pm

Forgive me for not clarifying or being clear earlier. I am working while posting responses on this forum. So I don't have time to flesh out my responses. This is what happens when you practice law sometimes. You sometimes have to do work that is not engaging. So you play on the internet simultaneously.

User avatar
quiver
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby quiver » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:08 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:
The real point is that there is no point in worrying about grades because you cannot predict how well you will do. One must simply put in his or her best effort and let the chips fall where they may. But to throw up your hands and say "who cares about grades because it has little bearing on how good I will be as a lawyer" misses the point. You will have a tougher time being a lawyer in the first place if you don't get good grades (depending on the school). You can worry about being a good lawyer once you're in practice.


I do agree with most of this post. I'm not saying to hell with grades. I'm saying they do not paint the complete and final picture. So why stress about them? You can do well without stressing about something, you know. And what I said is not relevant to the OP's desire for specific info. My point is to say that stressing about what goes into making good grades is silly. I agree, you should exert your best effort into making ood grades. I never said they were not important. Obviously, they are hugely important. But achieving good grades does not automatically seal the deal to becoming a competent attorney.

A lot of people stress about law school on this site. You just can't put forth your best effort when you are stressed. That is just a psychological truth. So from that perspective, what I said is relevant to the sentiment of OP's post. Continue to stress about this aspect of law school, and you won't perform as well. I'm saying to ease up and look at the big picture. That does not mean that I'm saying there is a lot of room for error. There is not. That means that stressing about this aspect will not improve your performance, because it won't. That's all I'm trying to say.
That's fair.

User avatar
Scotusnerd
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Is success in law school only about genius or luck?

Postby Scotusnerd » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:36 pm

quiver wrote:IThat's wise advice? I have no idea how that's helpful except to say that law school is a means to an end and that there is no point in speculating about grades (which everyone has said from the start of this thread). Lots of people don't care if they make "good money."


Because it's very easy to get caught up in prestige and the delusion that doing well in law school will equal success in law practice. You may not need that advice at your particular point in time, but a 0L needs to understand the hierarchy of their objectives when they're making decisions about what to do in law school. It seems simple, but you'd be surprised how many people miss this. It is legitimate, wise advice based on experience.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest