Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

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ProspectiveStudent69
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Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:46 pm

Before flaming, trolling, or being a complete elitist jerk, could anyone give me an objective, unbiased analysis of this school? Even if your attending, give me an honest pro/ con evaluation. Do you have worthwhile internships or have a job lined up as a 3L? For Alumni, what size of firm? Are you discriminated against because of the CSOL degree? Is the legal market as saturated as many have stated (in older posts) in NC? I have seen a lot of people criticizing others or simply stating "RETAKE". I realize I may not have the best LSAT score, but I do have a 3.34 and have maintained a consistent 3.91 during my last two years. With that said, I'm serious about attending this school. I'm serious about working hard and trying my hardest, even if it means studying 24/7. I know some people are socially inept and have a pathetic work ethic, but I'm different. I understand that lawyers can make it even if their school isn't ivy league. I feel like so many people either hate their lives, suck as individuals, or just feel the need to make themselves feel better by putting down others. If you are one of those people, don't bother posting. (Sorry for the rant, I've just noticed on this forum that so many people treat others horribly)

Thanks,

Jack Frost
Last edited by ProspectiveStudent69 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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YankeesFan
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby YankeesFan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:51 pm

I go to Wake but have had convos with the Charlotte transfers. The biggest indicator of what going to CSOL was when a transfer remarked that everyone at Wake was concerned with securing meaningful, well-paying employment for their 2L summer and job after school, while all of the CSOL students that they still knew were concerned with just passing the bar. The students apparently knew there was no chance of employment at the time of graduation, that they could really only start after they had been admitted, compared to UNC/Wake where the priority is on getting offers your 3L year. Take that for what its worth but it seemed pretty telling of the situation at that school.

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Lincoln
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby Lincoln » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:03 pm

ProspectiveStudent69 wrote:Before flaming, trolling, or being a complete elitist jerk, could anyone give me an objective, unbiased analysis of this school? Even if your attending, give me an honest pro/ con evaluation. Do you have worthwhile internships or have a job lined up as a 3L? For Alumni, what size of firm? Are you discriminated against because of the CSOL degree? Is the legal market as saturated as many have stated (in older posts) in NC? I have seen a lot of people criticizing others or simply stating "RETAKE". I realize I may not have the best LSAT score, but I do have a 3.34 and have maintained a consistent 3.91 during my last two years. With that said, I'm serious about attending this school. I'm serious about working hard and trying my hardest, even if it means studying 24/7. I know some people are socially inept and have a pathetic work ethic, but I'm different. I understand that lawyers can make it even if their school isn't ivy league. I feel like so many people either hate their lives, suck as individuals, or just feel the need to make themselves feel better by putting down others. If you are one of those people, don't bother posting. (Sorry for the rant, I've just noticed on this forum that so many people treat others horribly)



I don't mean to be negative, but why do you think you are different than every other law student? The statement I highlighted is what people on these forums call "special-snowflake syndrome." There are hard-working, socially adept people at every law school, including, I'm sure, CSOL. The difference between schools tend to be the degree to which those attributes are sufficient to get you a job.

(Edited to remove OP's real name.)
Last edited by Lincoln on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ProspectiveStudent69
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:16 pm

Okay nothing makes me any different than any other law student. I'm just saying that based on prior experience, not every one has the drive, and will at some point become discouraged and quit. I'm confident in my background and intellect in that I know I wont waiver in the face of long nights and big sacrifices in pursuit of my passion. Is it really as shallow as it seems? If you go to UNC or DUKE then you will get a job over CSOL, even though they are all equally qualified. This isn't a team effort, it's based on individuals. Wouldn't it be ignorant for one to assume just because someone went to a T4 they are less prepared then a 1L? Just one example of a standout student coming from a T4 could refute that. I guess it just seems like this whole law school thing is shallow. I'm ready for competition, but don't want to be judged based upon my school.

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Lincoln
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby Lincoln » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:29 pm

ProspectiveStudent69 wrote:Okay nothing makes me any different than any other law student. I'm just saying that based on prior experience, not every one has the drive, and will at some point become discouraged and quit. I'm confident in my background and intellect in that I know I wont waiver in the face of long nights and big sacrifices in pursuit of my passion. Is it really as shallow as it seems? If you go to UNC or DUKE then you will get a job over CSOL, even though they are all equally qualified. This isn't a team effort, it's based on individuals. Wouldn't it be ignorant for one to assume just because someone went to a T4 they are less prepared then a 1L? Just one example of a standout student coming from a T4 could refute that. I guess it just seems like this whole law school thing is shallow. I'm ready for competition, but don't want to be judged based upon my school.


I understand you don't want to be judged by the school, but you will, barring other criteria by which to judge you. (E.g. once you've accomplished something in law, few people care where you went to school.) Although it is true that there may be qualified candidates from any given school, given the oversupply of qualified candidates and the general similarity between law students in terms of professional qualifications and background, firms tend to hire from higher-ranked schools because they can.

I presume you've familiarized yourself with all the relevant employment statistics, so I think you should go to the school that makes sense to you. But think about it this way: Although you may be right that you are a very hard worker, there are, say, 1,000 students who will graduate the same year as you from higher-ranked law schools in North Carolina. Why would any employer think that you are more hard-working than every single one of them?

Also, I would recommend that you remove your name from the OP so as not to make it easier for adcoms, employers, and classmates to identify you.

Edited for typo.
Last edited by Lincoln on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ProspectiveStudent69
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:40 pm

Thanks for your advice, much appreciated!

timbs4339
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:03 am

Google "optimism bias." Or just watch the garden scene from Fight Club.

rwilson37643
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby rwilson37643 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:55 am

Going to CSOL is not the end of the world, and could be perfect depending on your personal situation and your goals. I will be attending Wake this fall. A good friend of mine will be attending CSOL. In both of our cases the decision was based on finances. We will both graduate with less than 60k in debt (45 for me 58 for him), and we have employment lined up after graduation. I have several friends practicing in NC, 4 in Charlotte, they all have about the same thing to say about CSOL: a JD from CSOL will make your first job harder to come by and that job may not be the one you want long term, but if you apply yourself in a few years you can get where you want to be. One of my friends frequently talks about a friend of his who graduated CSOL in 09 and is now general council for an engineering firm in Charlotte making 6 figures.

If your goal is biglaw right out of the gate forget CSOL, but if it fits with your plan go for it, just be aware of the debt you incur and the effect that will have on your life post graduation.

ProspectiveStudent69
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:38 am

Bump

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kalvano
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby kalvano » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:42 am

ProspectiveStudent69 wrote: don't want to be judged based upon my school.


You do understand that that is almost exclusively how you are judged by prospective employers?

ProspectiveStudent69
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:03 am

Yes. And it is pretty unfortunate and shallow really.

LRGhost
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby LRGhost » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:13 am

ProspectiveStudent69 wrote:Yes. And it is pretty unfortunate and shallow really.


Not really. Smarter individuals tend to go to better schools. It's not universally true, but it trends well enough that people can make educated assumptions based on it. The fact of the matter is that the average student at Duke is almost certainly more qualified than you.

This isn't an 'Ivy league' bias or elitism. Score better on the LSAT. Go to Duke.

TooOld4This
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby TooOld4This » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:54 am

ProspectiveStudent69 wrote:Yes. And it is pretty unfortunate and shallow really.


Why do you think so?

Shallow would be lowering your opinion of someone who has proven themselves as an excellent lawyer when you find out they didn't go to a prestigious school. (Which does happen, but there are jerks in every profession and that is not what is going on in this scenario.) What you are asking is for an employer to take a chance on you without giving them any reason to do so.

The reality is that there is a tremendous over-supply of lawyers right now. Picking any arbitrary cut-off of schools, below which an employer will not consider resumes, will almost always result in more qualified entry level candidates than needed. School rank becomes a sorting mechanism that reduces information costs. Students who go to top ranked schools have a history of performing well. The quality of students at top ranked schools is also more uniform than at lower ranked ones. Employers also become familiar with the general quality of students from local schools and what to look for on their resumes.

As an entry level attorney you generally have nothing to speak on your behalf other than your law school. If your law school is not known to be rigorous in choosing its students, then you are at a huge disadvantage. If you go this route, you would need to be at the very top of your class and/or hustle from day one to get experience and people who will vouch for you and can help you develop a reputation in your legal community.

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jvincent11
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby jvincent11 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:14 am

I find it hard to believe that the best you can do on the LSAT is 144. How did you study? For how many months? What was your method of preparation? How many practice tests have you taken?

BTW, don't blame the firms. If you were a hiring partner in NC, would you look at CSOL when you can fill your needs with T25, UNC, Wake?

If you are looking for someone to blame, blame the LSAT in general, not the firms.

ProspectiveStudent69
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:17 pm

I studied pretty hard but I'm finding obvious flaws in my way of studying. If I don't get into Cal Western/ Loyola New Orleans i will probably retake in OCT for sure.

timbs4339
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:10 pm

ProspectiveStudent69 wrote:I studied pretty hard but I'm finding obvious flaws in my way of studying. If I don't get into Cal Western/ Loyola New Orleans i will probably retake in OCT for sure.


Those schools are objectively terrible too.

BigZuck
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Re: Need advice from current students or alumni from CSOL in NC

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm sincerely not saying this to be a jerk but...you have a relatively average GPA and a low LSAT score. Why exactly do you think that you should be judged on the same scholastic level as a student who can get into Wake Forest, or UNC, or Duke?

There has to be some standards at work here. True, things like LSAT and gpa aren't perfect predictors of how good or bad someone will be as a lawyer but if someone has consistently performed poorly or mediocrely in school then I think it's fair for a legal employer to assume that they aren't just going to blossom when you give them a job.

And even if this is all unfair then I think your only reasonable course of action is to acknowledge it as unfair and then move on. Play the game. Get a better LSAT and go to a school that actually gives you a decent shot at being a lawyer.




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