Do You Regret Going to Law School?

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
rad lulz
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:34 pm

,
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bizzybone1313
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:37 pm

bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I don't expect a gravy train. I just find it hard to believe that most people won't EVENTUALLY have a good career coming out of some of the most elite law schools in the world. Things might not be great directly out of school, but what about 10-20 years down the line? My definition for a good career outcome is significantly below the whole $160K+ Big Law gig that everyone on TLS is so obsessed about. I would say a good career outcome would be making $80K+ for 20+ years. Things happen. People get fired. People get burnt out. People get tired of pushing paper.


I'm a T14 law student in the top 1/3 and I got dick. I am not uncommon. Problem for me: my debt isn't just gonna chill until I can pay it off with my sweet gig 20 years down the line. JUST GOTTA BE PATIENT, LENDERS


I would start gunning for the Big Four accounting firms (I use to do consulting for them); submit resumes left and right to big corporations and generally start doing what most people in your position don't do. The Big Four hire a lot of attorneys. I knew quite a few and their law school pedigree was pretty TTT. I bet you can get an interview with your T-14 pedigree. A lot of corporations would probably soil themselves to hire a Cornell or Duke law grad. It might not be easy to get hired with a law degree, but you don't need 30 job offers. You just need one job. Or you can sit there and type negative stuff on TLS and JDU all day every day.

At my Big Four, I personally knew 6 LS grads. And this is just people I directly knew. I wasn't even there long. I probably would have met another dozen or so if I kept working there.
Last edited by bizzybone1313 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bjsesq
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bjsesq » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:39 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I don't expect a gravy train. I just find it hard to believe that most people won't EVENTUALLY have a good career coming out of some of the most elite law schools in the world. Things might not be great directly out of school, but what about 10-20 years down the line? My definition for a good career outcome is significantly below the whole $160K+ Big Law gig that everyone on TLS is so obsessed about. I would say a good career outcome would be making $80K+ for 20+ years. Things happen. People get fired. People get burnt out. People get tired of pushing paper.


I'm a T14 law student in the top 1/3 and I got dick. I am not uncommon. Problem for me: my debt isn't just gonna chill until I can pay it off with my sweet gig 20 years down the line. JUST GOTTA BE PATIENT, LENDERS


I would start gunning for the Big Four accounting firms (I use to do consulting for them); submit resumes left and right to big corporations and generally start doing what most people in your position don't do. The Big Four hire a lot of attorneys. I knew quite a few and their law school pedigree was pretty TTT. I bet you can get an interview with your T-14 pedigree. A lot of corporations would probably soil themselves to hire a Cornell or Duke law grad. It might not be easy to get hired with a law degree, but you don't need 30 job offers. You just need one job. Or you can sit there and type negative stuff on TLS and JDU.


I've sent out over 500 resumes to every job you can think of already, you arrogant fuck. I am starting to get a bit perturbed that some douche 0L is telling me what jobs I can and cannot get with my law degree. Are you fucking retarded?

rad lulz
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:42 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grazzhoppa
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby Grazzhoppa » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:42 pm

bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I don't expect a gravy train. I just find it hard to believe that most people won't EVENTUALLY have a good career coming out of some of the most elite law schools in the world. Things might not be great directly out of school, but what about 10-20 years down the line? My definition for a good career outcome is significantly below the whole $160K+ Big Law gig that everyone on TLS is so obsessed about. I would say a good career outcome would be making $80K+ for 20+ years. Things happen. People get fired. People get burnt out. People get tired of pushing paper.


I'm a T14 law student in the top 1/3 and I got dick. I am not uncommon. Problem for me: my debt isn't just gonna chill until I can pay it off with my sweet gig 20 years down the line. JUST GOTTA BE PATIENT, LENDERS


I would start gunning for the Big Four accounting firms (I use to do consulting for them); submit resumes left and right to big corporations and generally start doing what most people in your position don't do. The Big Four hire a lot of attorneys. I knew quite a few and their law school pedigree was pretty TTT. I bet you can get an interview with your T-14 pedigree. A lot of corporations would probably soil themselves to hire a Cornell or Duke law grad. It might not be easy to get hired with a law degree, but you don't need 30 job offers. You just need one job. Or you can sit there and type negative stuff on TLS and JDU.


I've sent out over 500 resumes to every job you can think of already, you arrogant fuck. I am starting to get a bit perturbed that some douche 0L is telling me what jobs I can and cannot get with my law degree. Are you fucking retarded?


Didn't you network bro?

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bjsesq
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bjsesq » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:43 pm

Grazzhoppa wrote:Didn't you network bro?


My hookers skipped town when I went to law school. It limited my networking skills.

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Kronk
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby Kronk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:44 pm

tbh bizzy, that salary range you're referencing--75k to 95k--doesn't really exist in any significant numbers. There are certainly some private firms that are smalllaw / midlaw that would hire in that range, but those types of places really don't hire law students. Or at least they aren't something that a law student can depend on. Some federal government agencies might hire in that range, but it would be INCREDIBLY difficult to nab those jobs.

In reality, the jobs that I have seen and my classmates have grabbed are either in the 45k-60k range or the 145-160k biglaw range.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:44 pm

Image

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:46 pm

bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I don't expect a gravy train. I just find it hard to believe that most people won't EVENTUALLY have a good career coming out of some of the most elite law schools in the world. Things might not be great directly out of school, but what about 10-20 years down the line? My definition for a good career outcome is significantly below the whole $160K+ Big Law gig that everyone on TLS is so obsessed about. I would say a good career outcome would be making $80K+ for 20+ years. Things happen. People get fired. People get burnt out. People get tired of pushing paper.


I'm a T14 law student in the top 1/3 and I got dick. I am not uncommon. Problem for me: my debt isn't just gonna chill until I can pay it off with my sweet gig 20 years down the line. JUST GOTTA BE PATIENT, LENDERS


I would start gunning for the Big Four accounting firms (I use to do consulting for them); submit resumes left and right to big corporations and generally start doing what most people in your position don't do. The Big Four hire a lot of attorneys. I knew quite a few and their law school pedigree was pretty TTT. I bet you can get an interview with your T-14 pedigree. A lot of corporations would probably soil themselves to hire a Cornell or Duke law grad. It might not be easy to get hired with a law degree, but you don't need 30 job offers. You just need one job. Or you can sit there and type negative stuff on TLS and JDU.


I've sent out over 500 resumes to every job you can think of already, you arrogant fuck. I am starting to get a bit perturbed that some douche 0L is telling me what jobs I can and cannot get with my law degree. Are you fucking retarded?


No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad. You may have sent 500 resumes to all types of corporations, but do you really think a lot of your unemployed peers have done the same thing? I was offering helpful information in terms of the Big Four accounting firms. I am willing to bet most law students don't know that they hire a significant number of JD's. A lot of your peers probably do, in fact, just target law firms and not actual corporations.

So, have you in fact submitted 4 of your 500 resumes to Deloitte, KPMG, E&Y and PWC? (Big Four Acct. Firms)

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presh
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby presh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:47 pm

bizzybone, I think what people are trying to get through to you is that the types of jobs you are talking about are pretty rare in law. For about half the grads in the country, they won't be getting anything. For the employed ones, the stressful and/or shitty outcomes outnumber the good ones. A lot, maybe even most, lawyers will be either working long ass hours for great pay (biglaw) or long ass hours for shit pay (shitlaw or many state gov gigs). Yes, there are outcomes in between, but not that many and most are very competitive for obvious reasons.

Even with a good outcome, that doesn't mean everything's perfect. I graduated with a total of about 100k in debt (for both undergrad and law) and lucked into a federal government job that starts at about 75k (this depends a bit on location) and hits 100k after about four years. I manage to pay my loans every month on standard repayment, but it takes a huge portion of my paycheck. I think I'm actually the only young attorney in my office who isn't using IBR (for various reasons, we don't qualify for PSLF). I can't even imagine trying to pay back what I would have had to borrow if I had paid sticker at a T14. My hours are great, but I have to worry about the furloughs coming up and how they are going to affect my pay - as do basically all federal attorneys right now. This isn't to bitch about my job or my life - I'm happy with both, but even good outcomes can be difficult with the type of debt most people leave law school with.

As a relevant sidenote, my agency probably won't even be hiring anyone this year b/c of the budget cuts, and the scuttlebutt is that's going to be pretty true for most government agencies. Even before that, you have to consider that there are typically hundreds of applicants for each federal position, even at the less prestigious agencies (mine isn't a prestigious one).

ETA: Jesus, stop being a dick to bj.
Last edited by presh on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bjsesq
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bjsesq » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:48 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad. You may have sent 500 resumes to all types of corporations, but do you really think a lot of your unemployed peers have done the same thing? I was offering helpful information in terms of the Big Four accounting firms. I am willing to bet most law students don't know that they hire a significant number of JD's. A lot of your peers probably do, in fact, just target law firms and not actual corporations.

So, have you in fact submitted 4 of your 500 resumes to Deloitte, KPMG, E&Y and PWC? (Big Four Acct. Firms)


1. One of my best friends at school worked for Price Waterhouse before he came here. I sent them a resume and dropped his name. GUESS WHAT?

2. "No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad." This is how I will remember you. I'm done even pretending to listen to your dumb ass.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:49 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:I graduated with honors from undergrad.

WHAT A SCHOLAR.

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presh
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby presh » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:50 pm

bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad. You may have sent 500 resumes to all types of corporations, but do you really think a lot of your unemployed peers have done the same thing? I was offering helpful information in terms of the Big Four accounting firms. I am willing to bet most law students don't know that they hire a significant number of JD's. A lot of your peers probably do, in fact, just target law firms and not actual corporations.

So, have you in fact submitted 4 of your 500 resumes to Deloitte, KPMG, E&Y and PWC? (Big Four Acct. Firms)


1. One of my best friends at school worked for Price Waterhouse before he came here. I sent them a resume and dropped his name. GUESS WHAT?

2. "No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad." This is how I will remember you. I'm done even pretending to listen to your dumb ass.


But have you tried getting a job recording erotica audio books yet, boo? HAVE YOU?

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romothesavior
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:51 pm

Noodley aren't you a 0L too?

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ph5354a
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby ph5354a » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:51 pm

Tagging this thread for the incredibly useful information and incredible lulz. Thanks guys.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:52 pm

presh wrote:bizzybone, I think what people are trying to get through to you is that the types of jobs you are talking about are pretty rare in law. For about half the grads in the country, they won't be getting anything. For the employed ones, the stressful and/or shitty outcomes outnumber the good ones. A lot, maybe even most, lawyers will be either working long ass hours for great pay (biglaw) or long ass hours for shit pay (shitlaw or many state gov gigs). Yes, there are outcomes in between, but not that many and most are very competitive for obvious reasons.

Even with a good outcome, that doesn't mean everything's perfect. I graduated with a total of about 100k in debt (for both undergrad and law) and lucked into a federal government job that starts at about 75k (this depends a bit on location) and hits 100k after about four years. I manage to pay my loans every month on standard repayment, but it takes a huge portion of my paycheck. I think I'm actually the only young attorney in my office who isn't using IBR (for various reasons, we don't qualify for PSLF). I can't even imagine trying to pay back what I would have had to borrow if I had paid sticker at a T14. My hours are great, but I have to worry about the furloughs coming up and how they are going to affect my pay - as do basically all federal attorneys right now. This isn't to bitch about my job or my life - I'm happy with both, but even good outcomes can be difficult with the type of debt most people leave law school with.

As a relevant sidenote, my agency probably won't even be hiring anyone this year b/c of the budget cuts, and the scuttlebutt is that's going to be pretty true for most government agencies. Even before that, you have to consider that there are typically hundreds of applicants for each federal position, even at the less prestigious agencies (mine isn't a prestigious one).

ETA: Jesus, stop being a dick to bj.


I am not intentionally trying to be a dick to BJ. He is taking his frustrations out on me. I appreciate your substantive post. It is real helpful. I have done a lot of research on legal careers. I am not some ignorant 0L that thinks all attorneys make six figures.

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bjsesq
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bjsesq » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:52 pm

presh wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad. You may have sent 500 resumes to all types of corporations, but do you really think a lot of your unemployed peers have done the same thing? I was offering helpful information in terms of the Big Four accounting firms. I am willing to bet most law students don't know that they hire a significant number of JD's. A lot of your peers probably do, in fact, just target law firms and not actual corporations.

So, have you in fact submitted 4 of your 500 resumes to Deloitte, KPMG, E&Y and PWC? (Big Four Acct. Firms)


1. One of my best friends at school worked for Price Waterhouse before he came here. I sent them a resume and dropped his name. GUESS WHAT?

2. "No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad." This is how I will remember you. I'm done even pretending to listen to your dumb ass.


But have you tried getting a job recording erotica audio books yet, boo? HAVE YOU?


If only

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:54 pm

Danger Zone wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I graduated with honors from undergrad.

WHAT A SCHOLAR.


I have already heard that joke before on TLS. It was pretty funny the first time, but I am not as impressed this go around.

LaBarrister
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby LaBarrister » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:54 pm

bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I don't expect a gravy train. I just find it hard to believe that most people won't EVENTUALLY have a good career coming out of some of the most elite law schools in the world. Things might not be great directly out of school, but what about 10-20 years down the line? My definition for a good career outcome is significantly below the whole $160K+ Big Law gig that everyone on TLS is so obsessed about. I would say a good career outcome would be making $80K+ for 20+ years. Things happen. People get fired. People get burnt out. People get tired of pushing paper.


I'm a T14 law student in the top 1/3 and I got dick. I am not uncommon. Problem for me: my debt isn't just gonna chill until I can pay it off with my sweet gig 20 years down the line. JUST GOTTA BE PATIENT, LENDERS


I would start gunning for the Big Four accounting firms (I use to do consulting for them); submit resumes left and right to big corporations and generally start doing what most people in your position don't do. The Big Four hire a lot of attorneys. I knew quite a few and their law school pedigree was pretty TTT. I bet you can get an interview with your T-14 pedigree. A lot of corporations would probably soil themselves to hire a Cornell or Duke law grad. It might not be easy to get hired with a law degree, but you don't need 30 job offers. You just need one job. Or you can sit there and type negative stuff on TLS and JDU.


I've sent out over 500 resumes to every job you can think of already, you arrogant fuck. I am starting to get a bit perturbed that some douche 0L is telling me what jobs I can and cannot get with my law degree. Are you fucking retarded?


I had a poor ex-attorney tell me the other day, "look for people, not jobs." FWIW. I still have no idea what he's talking about.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:55 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I graduated with honors from undergrad.

WHAT A SCHOLAR.


I have already heard that joke before on TLS. It was pretty funny the first time, but I am not as impressed this go around.

WHAT A SCHOLAR.

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bjsesq
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bjsesq » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:56 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I graduated with honors from undergrad.

WHAT A SCHOLAR.


I have already heard that joke before on TLS. It was pretty funny the first time, but I am not as impressed this go around.


Of course, you graduated with honors from undergrad. Yours is a higher sense of humor.

rad lulz
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:56 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kronk
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby Kronk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:57 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:I am not intentionally trying to be a dick to BJ. He is taking his frustrations out on me. I appreciate your substantive post. It is real helpful. I have done a lot of research on legal careers. I am not some ignorant 0L that thinks all attorneys make six figures.



But it seems you think there is a large spectrum to salaries. What I am trying to say is:

40k-50k-60k-DEARTH OF JOBS DEARTH OF JOBS DEARTH OF JOBS DEARTH OF JOBS--145k-160k (working 70hpw)

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:58 pm

bjsesq wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad. You may have sent 500 resumes to all types of corporations, but do you really think a lot of your unemployed peers have done the same thing? I was offering helpful information in terms of the Big Four accounting firms. I am willing to bet most law students don't know that they hire a significant number of JD's. A lot of your peers probably do, in fact, just target law firms and not actual corporations.

So, have you in fact submitted 4 of your 500 resumes to Deloitte, KPMG, E&Y and PWC? (Big Four Acct. Firms)


1. One of my best friends at school worked for Price Waterhouse before he came here. I sent them a resume and dropped his name. GUESS WHAT?

2. "No need to get upset-- and no-- I am not retarded-- I graduated with honors from undergrad." This is how I will remember you. I'm done even pretending to listen to your dumb ass.


Good luck with the job search man. I wasn't trying to be a dick. You are in a much better position than the thousands of other law students at TTTT's. I know my advice with regards to the Big Four will be helpful to SOMEONE.

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Emma.
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Re: Do You Regret Going to Law School?

Postby Emma. » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:00 pm

rad lulz wrote:When 0Ls tell 3Ls how to get jobs I want to smash their faces into a table




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