Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

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RELIC
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby RELIC » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:33 pm

squonk wrote:Digging this thread up because I have something else to ask. I picked up Getting to Maybe and Garner's Elements of Legal Style online, and they both seem pretty useful (though they seem like they'll be a lot more useful as reminders/references than as "prep material.") Is there any point in looking through any of the E&E books during the summer, or is it just a total waste of time? I've seen Glannon's Civ Pro mentioned as useful, but I also plan on spending most of my pre-law school summer not having my nose constantly in a book.

0L prep is a waste of time.

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Emma.
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby Emma. » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:43 pm

lawschoolsplit1984 wrote:
So do you think if you read months ahead of everyone else, are able to tape record the lectures and play them over, and are friends with someone at the same school that did well IL, that you will have a slight advantage in placing in the top 10 percent? OR is still impossible?


In several states making an audio recording class is illegal (you'd basically need permission of everyone in the class). You can't do this in Illinois, for example.

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Samara
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby Samara » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:49 pm

Emma. wrote:
lawschoolsplit1984 wrote:
So do you think if you read months ahead of everyone else, are able to tape record the lectures and play them over, and are friends with someone at the same school that did well IL, that you will have a slight advantage in placing in the top 10 percent? OR is still impossible?


In several states making an audio recording class is illegal (you'd basically need permission of everyone in the class). You can't do this in Illinois, for example.

Really? Classes get recorded all the time in my Illinois school at the discretion of the professor/administration without any input from the class.

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Emma.
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby Emma. » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:56 pm

Samara wrote:
Emma. wrote:
lawschoolsplit1984 wrote:
So do you think if you read months ahead of everyone else, are able to tape record the lectures and play them over, and are friends with someone at the same school that did well IL, that you will have a slight advantage in placing in the top 10 percent? OR is still impossible?


In several states making an audio recording class is illegal (you'd basically need permission of everyone in the class). You can't do this in Illinois, for example.

Really? Classes get recorded all the time in my Illinois school at the discretion of the professor/administration without any input from the class.


If the professor is doing the recording then I guess they are assuming tacit permission from the class. I imagine if the profs asked before every class if anyone objected, no one would complain? But if you as a student are surreptitiously recording the prof, that could potentially create issues.


Random Legal Website wrote:Illinois is a two-party-consent state to recordings so Illinois makes it a crime to use an "eavesdropping device" to overhear or record a phone call or conversation without the consent of all parties to the conversation. The law defines an "eavesdropping device" as "any device capable of being used to hear or record oral conversation or intercept, retain, or transcribe electronic communication whether such conversation or electronic communication is conducted in person, by telephone, or by any other means." 720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/14-1, -2
Last edited by Emma. on Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Samara
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby Samara » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:00 am

Emma. wrote:If the professor is doing the recording then I guess they are assuming tacit permission from the class. I imagine if the profs asked before every class if anyone objected, no one would complain? But if you as a student are surreptitiously recording the prof, that could potentially create issues.

"Illinois is a two-party-consent state to recordings so Illinois makes it a crime to use an 'eavesdropping device' to overhear or record a phone call or conversation without the consent of all parties to the conversation. The law defines an 'eavesdropping device' as 'any device capable of being used to hear or record oral conversation or intercept, retain, or transcribe electronic communication whether such conversation or electronic communication is conducted in person, by telephone, or by any other means." 720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/14-1, -2

Hmmm...I knew about that law, but I always assumed it didn't apply to something like a class since it's not a conversation and not really even private. I'm pretty sure no one cares (I certainly don't) but that's interesting.

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gaud
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby gaud » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:01 am

crumpetsandtea wrote: make a checklist


definitely this. checklist/attack sheets helped me on finals A TON

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Nelson
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby Nelson » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:05 am

Samara wrote:
Emma. wrote:If the professor is doing the recording then I guess they are assuming tacit permission from the class. I imagine if the profs asked before every class if anyone objected, no one would complain? But if you as a student are surreptitiously recording the prof, that could potentially create issues.

"Illinois is a two-party-consent state to recordings so Illinois makes it a crime to use an 'eavesdropping device' to overhear or record a phone call or conversation without the consent of all parties to the conversation. The law defines an 'eavesdropping device' as 'any device capable of being used to hear or record oral conversation or intercept, retain, or transcribe electronic communication whether such conversation or electronic communication is conducted in person, by telephone, or by any other means." 720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/14-1, -2

Hmmm...I knew about that law, but I always assumed it didn't apply to something like a class since it's not a conversation and not really even private. I'm pretty sure no one cares (I certainly don't) but that's interesting.

If you look around the entrances to your school there's probably a posted waiver saying that you're consenting to audio video recording by entering the building. I know my school has waivers posted specifically because of that kind of law and tons of classes are recorded automatically. Edit: though now that I think about it, the waivers might also be because the school would use your likeness or a recording for promo purposes without your consent.

I didn't realize that the original guy was talking about doing it surreptitiously, which is definitely at least going to piss off your prof even if no one bothers to prosecute you under a wiretap statute.
Last edited by Nelson on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:08 am

Yeah, schools usually require you to get permission from the professor (the lecture/course plan is the prof's intellectual property), so surreptitious recording isn't a very good idea, but I've never heard of other students having to consent. (And I used to teach, and students recorded classes all the time.) I'm presuming it's because there's no expectation of privacy in a classroom discussion, but it could just be the waiver thing (I've never seen any waivers posted, but I've never really looked).

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Samara
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby Samara » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:11 am

Nelson wrote:If you look around the entrances to your school there's probably a posted waiver saying that you're consenting to audio video recording by entering the building. I know my school has waivers posted specifically because of that kind of law and tons of classes are recorded automatically.

I didn't realize that the original guy was talking about doing it surreptitiously, which is definitely at least going to piss off your prof even if no one bothers to prosecute you under a wiretap statute.

Yeah, almost every professor has made it very clear that recording without consent is not kosher.

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Samara
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Re: Will these things give you a leg up in doing well 1L ?

Postby Samara » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:13 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, schools usually require you to get permission from the professor (the lecture/course plan is the prof's intellectual property), so surreptitious recording isn't a very good idea, but I've never heard of other students having to consent. (And I used to teach, and students recorded classes all the time.) I'm presuming it's because there's no expectation of privacy in a classroom discussion, but it could just be the waiver thing (I've never seen any waivers posted, but I've never really looked).

Based on a quick search, it looks like you could argue either that conversation is narrowly tailored to not include something like a lecture or that the students impliedly consented in some way. (Notwithstanding any waiver issue. I've never seen one, but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist.)

/nerd




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