is this gpa scenario right or wrong

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barberiolisa
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:35 am

is this gpa scenario right or wrong

Postby barberiolisa » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:18 am

I have an abysmal gpa, due to healthconcerns and have a solid year to study for the LSAT. I want to break a top 50 school. A Harvard law graduate that does LSAT tutoring told me that:

Say you get a LSAT score of 169, or 170+

and that is higher than many 20-50 schools LSAT median, even if you get a 3.3 or a 2.5 gpa, that once the gpa is below 25 percent, the 3.3 below the 25 percent can be regarded same as a 2.5 also below the gpa 25 percent, but as long as you have say a 170 LSAT score, if

person A has a 170 LSAT and a 3.3 gpa (under 25 percent) and person B has a 170 LSAT and 2.5 gpa (under 25 percent), you really are in the same boat, since the LSAT is higher than their 75 percent LSAT and the gpa in both cases is below their 25 percent. Right? Wrong?

toothbrush
Posts: 2388
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: is this gpa scenario right or wrong

Postby toothbrush » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:27 am

barberiolisa wrote:I have an abysmal gpa, due to healthconcerns and have a solid year to study for the LSAT. I want to break a top 50 school. A Harvard law graduate that does LSAT tutoring told me that:

Say you get a LSAT score of 169, or 170+

and that is higher than many 20-50 schools LSAT median, even if you get a 3.3 or a 2.5 gpa, that once the gpa is below 25 percent, the 3.3 below the 25 percent can be regarded same as a 2.5 also below the gpa 25 percent, but as long as you have say a 170 LSAT score, if

person A has a 170 LSAT and a 3.3 gpa (under 25 percent) and person B has a 170 LSAT and 2.5 gpa (under 25 percent), you really are in the same boat, since the LSAT is higher than their 75 percent LSAT and the gpa in both cases is below their 25 percent. Right? Wrong?

Okay so i've seen this discussion once before (I actually brought it up).. and someones idea, which made sense, is that theoretically yes you're already below the 25th but the degree below that number actually brings them down more. As such, a 3.3 is viewed more favorably than a 2.5 bc the former won't bring down their 25th as much as the latter.

Second, mylsn.info gives recent examples of how splitters who are below the 25th but barely (3.3) have better success than those with a 2.5 etc.

Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear.

Just do your best on the lsat and apply early Good luck!

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zworykin
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 4:18 am

Re: is this gpa scenario right or wrong

Postby zworykin » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:11 am

toothbrush wrote:
barberiolisa wrote:I have an abysmal gpa, due to healthconcerns and have a solid year to study for the LSAT. I want to break a top 50 school. A Harvard law graduate that does LSAT tutoring told me that:

Say you get a LSAT score of 169, or 170+

and that is higher than many 20-50 schools LSAT median, even if you get a 3.3 or a 2.5 gpa, that once the gpa is below 25 percent, the 3.3 below the 25 percent can be regarded same as a 2.5 also below the gpa 25 percent, but as long as you have say a 170 LSAT score, if

person A has a 170 LSAT and a 3.3 gpa (under 25 percent) and person B has a 170 LSAT and 2.5 gpa (under 25 percent), you really are in the same boat, since the LSAT is higher than their 75 percent LSAT and the gpa in both cases is below their 25 percent. Right? Wrong?

Okay so i've seen this discussion once before (I actually brought it up).. and someones idea, which made sense, is that theoretically yes you're already below the 25th but the degree below that number actually brings them down more. As such, a 3.3 is viewed more favorably than a 2.5 bc the former won't bring down their 25th as much as the latter.


No, that's not correct. The 25th percentile isn't an average of any sort. The only person whose GPA affects the 25th percentile is the person who actually IS the 25th percentile (i.e. specifically person #25 in a class of 100). If that person has a GPA of 3.5, it does not matter if the 24 people below all have 3.4 or all have 0.2, the 25th percentile point is still 3.5.

That being said, if you're an admissions officer and all other things are equal, are you really going to look at a 3.3 and a 2.5 the same? They'll both be the same as far as your percentiles (and thus ranking) go, yeah, but which one do you think is going to be the better student? The one who goes on to do bigger things, bringing prestige to the school? The one who goes on to get paid, and ends up giving back big donations to the school? Etc.

toothbrush
Posts: 2388
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: is this gpa scenario right or wrong

Postby toothbrush » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:14 am

zworykin wrote:
toothbrush wrote:
barberiolisa wrote:I have an abysmal gpa, due to healthconcerns and have a solid year to study for the LSAT. I want to break a top 50 school. A Harvard law graduate that does LSAT tutoring told me that:

Say you get a LSAT score of 169, or 170+

and that is higher than many 20-50 schools LSAT median, even if you get a 3.3 or a 2.5 gpa, that once the gpa is below 25 percent, the 3.3 below the 25 percent can be regarded same as a 2.5 also below the gpa 25 percent, but as long as you have say a 170 LSAT score, if

person A has a 170 LSAT and a 3.3 gpa (under 25 percent) and person B has a 170 LSAT and 2.5 gpa (under 25 percent), you really are in the same boat, since the LSAT is higher than their 75 percent LSAT and the gpa in both cases is below their 25 percent. Right? Wrong?

Okay so i've seen this discussion once before (I actually brought it up).. and someones idea, which made sense, is that theoretically yes you're already below the 25th but the degree below that number actually brings them down more. As such, a 3.3 is viewed more favorably than a 2.5 bc the former won't bring down their 25th as much as the latter.


No, that's not correct. The 25th percentile isn't an average of any sort. The only person whose GPA affects the 25th percentile is the person who actually IS the 25th percentile (i.e. specifically person #25 in a class of 100). If that person has a GPA of 3.5, it does not matter if the 24 people below all have 3.4 or all have 0.2, the 25th percentile point is still 3.5.
That being said, if you're an admissions officer and all other things are equal, are you really going to look at a 3.3 and a 2.5 the same? They'll both be the same as far as your percentiles (and thus ranking) go, yeah, but which one do you think is going to be the better student? The one who goes on to do bigger things, bringing prestige to the school? The one who goes on to get paid, and ends up giving back big donations to the school? Etc.


waht ... TIL

no yeah that makes sense i took math before lul

vzapana
Posts: 530
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:54 pm

Re: is this gpa scenario right or wrong

Postby vzapana » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:36 am

This video is somewhat helpful (and very interesting): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7_xHsce57c The lecture is given by a faculty member at UVA Law School. He mentions that in practice, adcomms tend not to take candidates with GPAs significantly lower than the 25th Q, even though statistics allow them to take that risk. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's rare.

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somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: is this gpa scenario right or wrong

Postby somewhatwayward » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:12 pm

toothbrush wrote:
zworykin wrote:
toothbrush wrote:
barberiolisa wrote:I have an abysmal gpa, due to healthconcerns and have a solid year to study for the LSAT. I want to break a top 50 school. A Harvard law graduate that does LSAT tutoring told me that:

Say you get a LSAT score of 169, or 170+

and that is higher than many 20-50 schools LSAT median, even if you get a 3.3 or a 2.5 gpa, that once the gpa is below 25 percent, the 3.3 below the 25 percent can be regarded same as a 2.5 also below the gpa 25 percent, but as long as you have say a 170 LSAT score, if

person A has a 170 LSAT and a 3.3 gpa (under 25 percent) and person B has a 170 LSAT and 2.5 gpa (under 25 percent), you really are in the same boat, since the LSAT is higher than their 75 percent LSAT and the gpa in both cases is below their 25 percent. Right? Wrong?

Okay so i've seen this discussion once before (I actually brought it up).. and someones idea, which made sense, is that theoretically yes you're already below the 25th but the degree below that number actually brings them down more. As such, a 3.3 is viewed more favorably than a 2.5 bc the former won't bring down their 25th as much as the latter.


No, that's not correct. The 25th percentile isn't an average of any sort. The only person whose GPA affects the 25th percentile is the person who actually IS the 25th percentile (i.e. specifically person #25 in a class of 100). If that person has a GPA of 3.5, it does not matter if the 24 people below all have 3.4 or all have 0.2, the 25th percentile point is still 3.5.
That being said, if you're an admissions officer and all other things are equal, are you really going to look at a 3.3 and a 2.5 the same? They'll both be the same as far as your percentiles (and thus ranking) go, yeah, but which one do you think is going to be the better student? The one who goes on to do bigger things, bringing prestige to the school? The one who goes on to get paid, and ends up giving back big donations to the school? Etc.


waht ... TIL

no yeah that makes sense i took math before lul


zwork kinda misstated his point but what he meant is that if the 25th percentile is a 3.4, it doesn't matter whether all the GPAs below it are 3.39s or 2.5s. The 25th percentile will still be a 3.4 and will still represent the GPA that is better than 25% of the class. A school with a 3.4 25th percentile may still prefer the 3.39s over the 2.5s to make up the bottom quarter of GPAs for other reasons, but there is no penalty to the school's 25th percentile to choose the 2.5s over the 3.39s assuming the 3.4 25th percentile is fixed.




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