Extroverts

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
LaBarrister
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Re: Extroverts

Postby LaBarrister » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:55 am

howlery wrote:
LaBarrister wrote:
howlery wrote:
cinephile wrote:I'm going to answer your original question:

If you're really an extrovert, I imagine biglaw would be difficult, particularly in the first few years. How many hours can you work alone at your desk just doing due diligence or legal research or writing? If you can get by for hours and hours on end without going crazy because you need human contact, then you might not be an extrovert but this job is for you. My experience from my 1L summer job taught me that I need too much interaction to sit at a desk and do this kind of work all day every day.


Not to hijack whatever this thread was, but is this really what biglaw is like? I've read that extroverts tend to do better because of networking and shmoozing, being able to bring in business etc. whereas introverts think they can make partner by isolating themselves and working on their product (which apparently doesn't work?).


This was my idea. Anyone can work his ass of for hours on end. But the real cream of the crop must be able to persuade people, connect with them, and build contacts through networking--it doesn't matter what field you're in, this should always be on the agenda. Thank you for pointing out the obvious to Mr. KnowItAll lol


Well, to be fair, we're both 0Ls and cinephile has at least worked in biglaw as a 1L SA. She also qualified that at senior levels one's extroversion could be a benefit.


I don't understand. How can one get good enough grades to get into a good enough law school to get into a BigLaw firm, and only then find out that he/she didn't like sitting at a desk for hours on end every day. Isn't that what it took to get to that position in the first place, over many years? How on Earth did you land BigLaw without already having lived a lifestyle of sitting at a desk all day? I feel like I am missing something here.

Even if you majored in something trivial in undergraduate, you still had to put in the time and effort in law school to get the law grades that qualify for BigLaw, and only in BigLaw did you realize you didn't like doing that work? I am completely lost.

Cinephile, I didn't mean to be so abrasive earlier. Could you please explain this to me?

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: Extroverts

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:29 am

hume85 wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Image

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: Extroverts

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:31 am

LaBarrister wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:OP, describe your question using only words that are two syllables or less.

I will, however, allow the use of the word "syllables."


Okay. Here is my issue. BigLaw sounds horrend--bad. I get good grades in engineering. I am sociable. I work hard outside of the classroom and make a difference in people's lives. I have a lot of potential in a lot of things. But is going into BigLaw the only way that I can hope to make over $125,000.00 in law? If so, it is not worth it. I know I can do something else that will make me more money.

The only reason I ask is because I think patents are fascinating and I know I would love the work. But, again, even doing patent work for $50,000-$60,000 a year isn't worth it. I want something stimulating and challenging, but I don't want a BigLaw partner telling me how to tie my shoes for 8 years.

Does this make any sense at all?

I highly doubt you are "sociable".

LaBarrister
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Re: Extroverts

Postby LaBarrister » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:44 am

Mr. Pancakes wrote:
LaBarrister wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:OP, describe your question using only words that are two syllables or less.

I will, however, allow the use of the word "syllables."


Okay. Here is my issue. BigLaw sounds horrend--bad. I get good grades in engineering. I am sociable. I work hard outside of the classroom and make a difference in people's lives. I have a lot of potential in a lot of things. But is going into BigLaw the only way that I can hope to make over $125,000.00 in law? If so, it is not worth it. I know I can do something else that will make me more money.

The only reason I ask is because I think patents are fascinating and I know I would love the work. But, again, even doing patent work for $50,000-$60,000 a year isn't worth it. I want something stimulating and challenging, but I don't want a BigLaw partner telling me how to tie my shoes for 8 years.

Does this make any sense at all?

I highly doubt you are "sociable".


Your ignorance has been proven. Congratulations.

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: Extroverts

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:46 am

LaBarrister wrote:
Your ignorance has been proven. Congratulations.

Your raging aspbergers has been proven. Way to go, kid.

LaBarrister
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Re: Extroverts

Postby LaBarrister » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:50 am

Mr. Pancakes wrote:
LaBarrister wrote:
Your ignorance has been proven. Congratulations.

Your raging aspbergers has been proven. Way to go, kid.


Wish I had a nickel for every time you inappropriately referenced a psychological disorder for lack of better things to say.

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20130312
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Re: Extroverts

Postby 20130312 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:06 am

OP, your use of the English language needs some serious help.

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cinephile
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Re: Extroverts

Postby cinephile » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:11 am

LaBarrister wrote:
I don't understand. How can one get good enough grades to get into a good enough law school to get into a BigLaw firm, and only then find out that he/she didn't like sitting at a desk for hours on end every day. Isn't that what it took to get to that position in the first place, over many years? How on Earth did you land BigLaw without already having lived a lifestyle of sitting at a desk all day? I feel like I am missing something here.

Even if you majored in something trivial in undergraduate, you still had to put in the time and effort in law school to get the law grades that qualify for BigLaw, and only in BigLaw did you realize you didn't like doing that work? I am completely lost.

Cinephile, I didn't mean to be so abrasive earlier. Could you please explain this to me?


Well, lucky for me, I missed any abrasiveness so it's nbd.

Last summer was incredibly long isolating hours for me. I really had never spent that much time alone at a desk before (I worked as a teacher before). Maybe you have and you can handle it. But if several days go by and you realize, I haven't had a real conversation with anyone at work, only email communication, that's could be a problem. At least it was for me. And I started to think that while this might be doable for a few short months, could I imagine years of this? The answer, of course, was no and the only way to alleviate the stir-craziness was to take 2 hour lunches so I got some social time in the middle of the day, but then, of course, that means staying later to get work done.

I guess different people want and need different things, but I realized that I couldn't do this. I need a career where I'm primarily interacting with other people in part because of my extroversion and in part because I find paper pushing super boring.

LaBarrister
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Re: Extroverts

Postby LaBarrister » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:03 pm

cinephile wrote:
LaBarrister wrote:
I don't understand. How can one get good enough grades to get into a good enough law school to get into a BigLaw firm, and only then find out that he/she didn't like sitting at a desk for hours on end every day. Isn't that what it took to get to that position in the first place, over many years? How on Earth did you land BigLaw without already having lived a lifestyle of sitting at a desk all day? I feel like I am missing something here.

Even if you majored in something trivial in undergraduate, you still had to put in the time and effort in law school to get the law grades that qualify for BigLaw, and only in BigLaw did you realize you didn't like doing that work? I am completely lost.

Cinephile, I didn't mean to be so abrasive earlier. Could you please explain this to me?


Well, lucky for me, I missed any abrasiveness so it's nbd.

Last summer was incredibly long isolating hours for me. I really had never spent that much time alone at a desk before (I worked as a teacher before). Maybe you have and you can handle it. But if several days go by and you realize, I haven't had a real conversation with anyone at work, only email communication, that's could be a problem. At least it was for me. And I started to think that while this might be doable for a few short months, could I imagine years of this? The answer, of course, was no and the only way to alleviate the stir-craziness was to take 2 hour lunches so I got some social time in the middle of the day, but then, of course, that means staying later to get work done.

I guess different people want and need different things, but I realized that I couldn't do this. I need a career where I'm primarily interacting with other people in part because of my extroversion and in part because I find paper pushing super boring.


Hmm... okay. That clears some things up, I guess. Can I ask you something else? Was this strictly a Mon-Fri gig?

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20130312
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Re: Extroverts

Postby 20130312 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:10 pm

OP, have you ever had a full time job or are you still in UG? You might have said already, but if you did I didn't understand it.

LaBarrister
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Re: Extroverts

Postby LaBarrister » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:11 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:OP, have you ever had a full time job or are you still in UG? You might have said already, but if you did I didn't understand it.


Let's see... ever?

I've worked full-time as a bar hop at Sonic.

I've worked full-time as a floor installer with my father.

I've worked full-time as an undergraduate researcher one summer.

I've worked full-time as a straight-A student.

I've worked part-time as a freelance copy-editor and proofreader for a local author.

I've worked part-time as a quality control engineer at a pasta making plant.

I've worked full-time for a non-profit organization as a grant proposal writer and team leader.

This summer I'll be full-time at the USPTO and hopefully part-time networking and, with any luck, working for a patent attorney.

I didn't start working hard until college, so my employment history isn't that impressive yet.

I spend most of my time volunteering for organizations and holding leadership positions. That stuff doesn't pay money.


EDIT: I'm in undergraduate. I graduate in 2015. This summer at the USPTO will be my first summer where I focused everything on one full-time position without bouncing around between several different part-time things.

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20130312
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Re: Extroverts

Postby 20130312 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:18 pm

LaBarrister wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:OP, have you ever had a full time job or are you still in UG? You might have said already, but if you did I didn't understand it.

I'm in undergraduate. I graduate in 2015.

Brevity.

Anyway, I recommend you take some time post-UG to work and figure out what you want to do. You have all the time in the world to think about law school. Work somewhere with legal work (obviously the USPTO is a good choice) and decide if that's what's best for you before making a decision about law school. The couple of years of post-UG work experience really help clear up your mind.

LaBarrister
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Re: Extroverts

Postby LaBarrister » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:27 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
LaBarrister wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:OP, have you ever had a full time job or are you still in UG? You might have said already, but if you did I didn't understand it.

I'm in undergraduate. I graduate in 2015.

Brevity.

Anyway, I recommend you take some time post-UG to work and figure out what you want to do. You have all the time in the world to think about law school. Work somewhere with legal work (obviously the USPTO is a good choice) and decide if that's what's best for you before making a decision about law school. The couple of years of post-UG work experience really help clear up your mind.


Yes, I am a big proponent of this. My goal is to work as an examiner, but I understand that that is not guaranteed. My goal this summer is to do everything I can to make good contacts at the USPTO to increase my odds of getting that job upon graduation.

I would even go work as an engineer for a few years after undergraduate if it meant getting some experience before going to law school. I think going straight from undergraduate to law school is a foolish idea under most scenarios.

I've even though about going and teaching ESL in a foreign country for a few years if the examiner position at the USPTO isn't open upon graduation. Who knows? I may end up as an English teacher if all else fails (humorously so to many of you, I'm sure).

LaBarrister
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Re: Extroverts

Postby LaBarrister » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:33 pm

What's your story, InGoodFaith, if I may ask?

Undergraduate? Major? Life goals?

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20130312
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Re: Extroverts

Postby 20130312 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:43 pm

PM'd.

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Yukos
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Re: Extroverts

Postby Yukos » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:46 pm

LaBarrister wrote:What's your story, InGoodFaith, if I may ask?

Undergraduate? Major? Life goals?


ts;dr

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cinephile
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Re: Extroverts

Postby cinephile » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:54 pm

LaBarrister wrote:
cinephile wrote:FEELINGS


Hmm... okay. That clears some things up, I guess. Can I ask you something else? Was this strictly a Mon-Fri gig?


Sure. But I'm not sure that tells the whole picture.

I agree with whoever posted saying you should take some time off and work full-time, year round to get an image of what you do and don't want in a position. Working as a paralegal might be most helpful.

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20130312
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Re: Extroverts

Postby 20130312 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:57 pm

Yeah, agreed. Up through college, life seems easy because there's always another milestone coming up. But once you are working, with nothing really to look forward, it gives you quite a different perspective on life.

Don't mean for that to sound depressing, it's just... different.

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hume85
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Re: Extroverts

Postby hume85 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:02 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Yeah, agreed. Up through college, life seems easy because there's always another milestone coming up. But once you are working, with nothing really to look forward, it gives you quite a different perspective on life.

Don't mean for that to sound depressing, it's just... different.


I concur. The bolded is what lead me to start drinking too much.

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stillwater
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Re: Extroverts

Postby stillwater » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:07 pm

hume85 wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Yeah, agreed. Up through college, life seems easy because there's always another milestone coming up. But once you are working, with nothing really to look forward, it gives you quite a different perspective on life.

Don't mean for that to sound depressing, it's just... different.


I concur. The bolded is what lead me to start drinking too much.


the fact that we are on a wet rock circling a ball of fire in an infinite expanse of indifference led me to start drinking.

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hume85
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Re: Extroverts

Postby hume85 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:09 pm

stillwater wrote:
hume85 wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Yeah, agreed. Up through college, life seems easy because there's always another milestone coming up. But once you are working, with nothing really to look forward, it gives you quite a different perspective on life.

Don't mean for that to sound depressing, it's just... different.


I concur. The bolded is what lead me to start drinking too much.


the fact that we are on a wet rock circling a ball of fire in an infinite expanse of indifference led me to start drinking.


Not to derail the thread, but me too. It was the constant milestones of college that kept my mind from traveling to that place.

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fatduck
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Re: Extroverts

Postby fatduck » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:12 pm

this is the weirdest fucking thread ever

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stillwater
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Re: Extroverts

Postby stillwater » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:13 pm

fatduck wrote:this is the weirdest fucking thread ever


is it?

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TatteredDignity
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Re: Extroverts

Postby TatteredDignity » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:17 pm

hume85 wrote:
stillwater wrote:
hume85 wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Yeah, agreed. Up through college, life seems easy because there's always another milestone coming up. But once you are working, with nothing really to look forward, it gives you quite a different perspective on life.

Don't mean for that to sound depressing, it's just... different.


I concur. The bolded is what lead me to start drinking too much.


the fact that we are on a wet rock circling a ball of fire in an infinite expanse of indifference led me to start drinking.


Not to derail the thread, but me too. It was the constant milestones of college that kept my mind from traveling to that place.


Just do religion, bros.

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fatduck
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Re: Extroverts

Postby fatduck » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:18 pm

stillwater wrote:
fatduck wrote:this is the weirdest fucking thread ever


is it?

i haven't seen an OP so impenetrable yet persistent since Gabrielle022




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