Law School "Gunner": Etiquette Forum

[Icculus]

Jesus fuck dude are you serious?

Jesus fucking Christ. This guy can't be real.

Scooped on the QFP. Damn you DangerZone!

[basilseal]

Troll, and a beautiful one.

[Scotusnerd]

So, here is a follow0up question:

Do people equate being a gunner with being competitive?

In perusing a variety of TLS threads, I've come across a somewhat common question amongst prospectives asking about whether a school is very competitive? It seems there's a conflation - in how questions/comments were worded - of the terms "gunner" and "competitive," but I can't be absolutely sure.

But assuming that at least one person meant it that way, why is this the case? I think this view that being competitive as a bad thing derives possibly from an unfortunate misunderstanding. Now, to be sure, I am not advocating gunner-ish behavior, as defined in this thread. But, what I am saying is that the trait of being competitive is not inherently a bad thing.

Competition, if engaged in fairly, is the backbone of capitalism and our society. It makes people work harder/smarter to improve their product/services for society as a whole. We have so many of our modern comforts, technological advances, and even cures for diseases, and so on, because of highly motivated and skilled people working hard to produce a great product/service for society. And, morever, it's not a zero sum game. If you produce a great product/service, someone else doesn't have to lose in order for you to gain. Biglaw may be an exception! But even then, a person can take their skills from biglaw with them and do other things (small law, in-house, etc.) if they fail to "win" partnernship.

In law school, competition shouldn't be seen as an undesirable thing in its student body. It should be viewed as something that helps produce the better work in people. Of course, if competition is engaged in unfairly, involves a lack of civility, and the like, then those negative side-effects of it we should avoid and criticize.

But just in general, why does it seem that so many posters ask to avoid schools with competition?

It might be helpful to elaborate on what we mean by competition too. I think people commonly bring up things like not sharing notes to a class, not helping others understand their reading, being kind of cold and unfriendly, etc. I guess I had considered those things more of just being a jerk. lol. Although, in some cases, there could be a valid reason for doing something like that (e.g., if you suspect a person has been lazy and is just using you). But sometimes I feel - I could be mistaken - that people also are referring to just the notion of everyone trying hard and working seriously to do their best. And in that case, I don't think it's a bad thing. Some people can feel intimidated by it or feel extra stress from seeing others trying so hard (in which case they probably just need to find some relaxation techniques), but I suppose I just see it as something that can/should motivate you to do better (which many people are very capable of)!

[gaucholaw]

Im a 0L as well, but fwiw, my experience in UG has shown me that there are occasional valid instances when asking a question (that is on point) in class is better than office hours. For instance, in a given lecture, there may be a certain structural coherence, say the professor builds something from point A to point C, however, say halfway during the lecture during point B, if you are confused and don't seek clarification, not only are you going to need to get help in office hours on point B, but also point C - which will have been contingent on understanding point B. In this scenario, I have found that a quick concise question that is strictly on topic and asked in a humble unassuming manner does not annoy other students. In fact, even the students who understand point B from the beginning, may even appreciate the quick 1 minute mental break from lecture. However, unfortunately sometimes after I've tried this I still won't understand it, in which case it is better to go to office hours afterwards rather than belabor the subject (which is when students may start to get annoyed).

[Danger Zone]

Im a 0L

Stop.

[gaucholaw]

Im a 0L

Stop.

eh. c'mon now,

[NoodleyOne]

Im a 0L

Stop.

eh. c'mon now,

As a 0L, here's what I learned about law school:

That I don't know shit about it, and should shut my mouth.

[Danger Zone]

Noodley gets it. Basically, the forum is called "Ask a Law Student," not "Ask One of Your Clueless Peers."

[Scotusnerd]

Noodley gets it. Basically, the forum is called "Ask a Law Student," not "Ask One of Your Clueless Peers."

What he said. Don't theorize about what law school is like. You never go full retard.

[gaucholaw]

Im a 0L

Stop.

eh. c'mon now,

As a 0L, here's what I learned about law school:

That I don't know shit about it, and should shut my mouth.

I totally agree with technical question, but there's a certain amount of common sense invoked in this case, may I ask if you read what I wrote? I thought I was contributing something, and made a valid point on the question that was asked, if you don't find it interesting, you can just scroll down,

Edit:
I withdraw my statement, I came onto this thread because it was on the front page... I didn't see it was in the ask a "law student" I won't add further to this thread, but I'll "ask" that a law student read my point and agree or disagree

[Scotusnerd]

I totally agree with technical question, but there's a certain amount of common sense invoked in this case, may I ask if you read what I wrote? I thought I was contributing something, and made a valid point on the question that was asked, if you don't find it interesting, you can just scroll down,

Edit:
I withdraw my statement, I came onto this thread because it was on the front page... I didn't see it was in the ask a "law student" I won't add further to this thread, but I'll "ask" that a law student read my point and agree or disagree

And I will "answer" by telling you to shush, sit back and read.

No one wants to hear your theories man. You're a 0L. Keep them to yourself and test them out when the time is right.

[AreJay711]

saw this in another thread HTH

I want to play this against ppl in other classes.

[gaucholaw]

I totally agree with technical question, but there's a certain amount of common sense invoked in this case, may I ask if you read what I wrote? I thought I was contributing something, and made a valid point on the question that was asked, if you don't find it interesting, you can just scroll down,

Edit:
I withdraw my statement, I came onto this thread because it was on the front page... I didn't see it was in the ask a "law student" I won't add further to this thread, but I'll "ask" that a law student read my point and agree or disagree

And I will "answer" by telling you to shush, sit back and read.

No one wants to hear your theories man. You're a 0L. Keep them to yourself and test them out when the time is right.

whatevs, peace out

[northwood]

law school is competitive.... gunners are annoying

if you have a question related to the topic ( like how did you go from A to C what happened to B?) that's fine. anything else unrelated or off tangent isn't

you should know if your question is on point. if its not related to the reading, or to clarify what the professor just said- then keep it for office hours.

When classes start, you will soon find this out

[jtabustos]

I think it's just good to use some common sense and social etiquette judgment in these situations. People mentioned some tips that seem reasonable for when to ask a question and when it would be a turn-off to others.

I'd probably want to play it on the safe side and reserve a pressing question for office hours (assuming I didn't figure out myself already) rather than possibly violate social etiquette if I wasn't sure.

I do wonder, however, what happens when a class has more than one gunner?

[LaBarrister]

I totally agree with technical question, but there's a certain amount of common sense invoked in this case, may I ask if you read what I wrote? I thought I was contributing something, and made a valid point on the question that was asked, if you don't find it interesting, you can just scroll down,

Edit:
I withdraw my statement, I came onto this thread because it was on the front page... I didn't see it was in the ask a "law student" I won't add further to this thread, but I'll "ask" that a law student read my point and agree or disagree

And I will "answer" by telling you to shush, sit back and read.

No one wants to hear your theories man. You're a 0L. Keep them to yourself and test them out when the time is right.

whatevs, peace out

Yeah... I'm not as honest with myself as Noodley, but I would totally thank someone for telling me my advice was unwanted. It saves both you and the listener. You should be thankful.

EDIT: At the very least, never answer a question about law school as a 0L with an "related" experience from undergraduate. Even I don't have the patience for that shit.

[lisavj]

I think it's just good to use some common sense and social etiquette judgment in these situations. People mentioned some tips that seem reasonable for when to ask a question and when it would be a turn-off to others.

I'd probably want to play it on the safe side and reserve a pressing question for office hours (assuming I didn't figure out myself already) rather than possibly violate social etiquette if I wasn't sure.

I do wonder, however, what happens when a class has more than one gunner?

They play off of each other in a spiral of doom. (She says knowing full well she's an unashamed gunner).

In defense of gunnerism - if the prof says they "bump for participation" I'm going to talk in class. Every class. In order to mention stuff from the reading to show I read it. I was bumped from a B+ to an A in one class solely for participation. Sorry to the rest in the class, but when I'm given that sort of carrot (which for me equated to a transfer to SLS that I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have made with the B+) I'm going to talk my a$$ off.

[kalvano]

I think it's just good to use some common sense and social etiquette judgment in these situations. People mentioned some tips that seem reasonable for when to ask a question and when it would be a turn-off to others.

I'd probably want to play it on the safe side and reserve a pressing question for office hours (assuming I didn't figure out myself already) rather than possibly violate social etiquette if I wasn't sure.

I do wonder, however, what happens when a class has more than one gunner?

They play off of each other in a spiral of doom. (She says knowing full well she's an unashamed gunner).

In defense of gunnerism - if the prof says they "bump for participation" I'm going to talk in class. Every class. In order to mention stuff from the reading to show I read it. I was bumped from a B+ to an A in one class solely for participation. Sorry to the rest in the class, but when I'm given that sort of carrot (which for me equated to a transfer to SLS that I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have made with the B+) I'm going to talk my a$$ off.

If the prof really does bump for participation (one of my classes is 50% participation grade) then absofuckinglutely I'm going to say something more than a few times. I want to see him mark the seating chart by my name several times.

But I think most people can tell a "I'm talking to get my participation points" versus "I love to hear myself yammer on" type of thing.

Also, related to earlier: if you have a legit question about how a prof got from A to B to C, as in you didn't understand B, then ask then. That's appropriate, and you aren't the only one who missed it. Anything else (hypotheticals, some life experience, deep philosophical questions, arguments with the prof) - shut your damn mouth and go to office hours.

[sanjola]

saw this in another thread HTH

This is amazing.

[bjsesq]

Someone put a lot of hard work into this troll. I'm giving it 8/10. Not bad at all.

[basilseal]

Someone put a lot of hard work into this troll. I'm giving it 8/10. Not bad at all.

Right? Top-drawer stuff.

[anozira]

...

[ebrackns]

0L here just looking through random posts. I enjoy reading gunner posts mostly because of the wittiness, hatred, and sarcasm, so I clicked on this one. Gunner etiquette? What the hell does that even mean? People usually ask about etiquette when they want to emulate some sort of acceptable mannerism.

Then it all made sense on page 3.

Happy to see I had the same reaction as many others did in response to the OP. Holy shit. Thanks for the laughs.

[ajel190]

Unfortunately, gunner girl is in all my classes. Her favorite go-to is, "Well when I was at Harvard," or she asks ridiculous questions. Why are you asking about billable hours when we're talking about pleadings? One day she asked one too many questions and a girl a few rows down from me lost it and said, "If you ask one more question, I'm going to slit your fuckin' throat." I pretended I was having a coughing fit, ran out of class, and broke into hysterical laughter in the hall. These days, gunner either a mute or she just holds her questions for office hours. Those are the law school moments to cherish.

[northwood]

So, here is a follow0up question:

Do people equate being a gunner with being competitive?

In perusing a variety of TLS threads, I've come across a somewhat common question amongst prospectives asking about whether a school is very competitive? It seems there's a conflation - in how questions/comments were worded - of the terms "gunner" and "competitive," but I can't be absolutely sure.

But assuming that at least one person meant it that way, why is this the case? I think this view that being competitive as a bad thing derives possibly from an unfortunate misunderstanding. Now, to be sure, I am not advocating gunner-ish behavior, as defined in this thread. But, what I am saying is that the trait of being competitive is not inherently a bad thing.

Competition, if engaged in fairly, is the backbone of capitalism and our society. It makes people work harder/smarter to improve their product/services for society as a whole. We have so many of our modern comforts, technological advances, and even cures for diseases, and so on, because of highly motivated and skilled people working hard to produce a great product/service for society. And, morever, it's not a zero sum game. If you produce a great product/service, someone else doesn't have to lose in order for you to gain. Biglaw may be an exception! But even then, a person can take their skills from biglaw with them and do other things (small law, in-house, etc.) if they fail to "win" partnernship.

In law school, competition shouldn't be seen as an undesirable thing in its student body. It should be viewed as something that helps produce the better work in people. Of course, if competition is engaged in unfairly, involves a lack of civility, and the like, then those negative side-effects of it we should avoid and criticize.

But just in general, why does it seem that so many posters ask to avoid schools with competition?

It might be helpful to elaborate on what we mean by competition too. I think people commonly bring up things like not sharing notes to a class, not helping others understand their reading, being kind of cold and unfriendly, etc. I guess I had considered those things more of just being a jerk. lol. Although, in some cases, there could be a valid reason for doing something like that (e.g., if you suspect a person has been lazy and is just using you). But sometimes I feel - I could be mistaken - that people also are referring to just the notion of everyone trying hard and working seriously to do their best. And in that case, I don't think it's a bad thing. Some people can feel intimidated by it or feel extra stress from seeing others trying so hard (in which case they probably just need to find some relaxation techniques), but I suppose I just see it as something that can/should motivate you to do better (which many people are very capable of)!

a year later, but id still say that this is a gunnerish post