What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

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jwinaz
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What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby jwinaz » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:18 pm

For those close to graduating or already graduated, what % of your class would you say had a "bad" law school outcome from the perspective of jobs and student loan debt?


jwinaz
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby jwinaz » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:19 pm




Hi.

Thank you for the link. Unfortunately, it looks like they are suggesting that the numbers are incomplete/inaccurate.

So, it's just hard to tell at most law schools?

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Mick Haller
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby Mick Haller » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:21 pm

UC Hastings. Probably 45-55% bad outcomes. 30% okay outcomes. 10% outcomes that merit 250k cost of attendance.

jwinaz
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby jwinaz » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:24 pm

Mick Haller wrote:UC Hastings. Probably 45-55% bad outcomes. 30% okay outcomes. 10% outcomes that merit 250k cost of attendance.


THanks.
I see. Still quite high then!

Would you say the 30% that are OK are in things like public interest law or mid-sized firms that sort of thing?

For the roughly 50% with bad outcomes, are those complete unemployment or more along the lines of document review and small law firms? It really is quite high.

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Mick Haller
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby Mick Haller » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:27 pm

I would say okay = small firm, public interest, etc. Gainful, full-time legal employment earning less than 80k.

Good outcome = midlaw, biglaw paying 100k+.

Bad outcome = temporary, part time, doc review, and unemployed.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:39 pm

Mick Haller wrote:UC Hastings. Probably 45-55% bad outcomes. 30% okay outcomes. 10% outcomes that merit 250k cost of attendance.


It's a shame that at one point UC Hastings was one of the top 5 law schools west of the Ivy League. Nevertheless, I wish I knew Tulane's outcomes as well as your know UC-Hastings outcomes.

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Mick Haller
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby Mick Haller » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:47 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:UC Hastings. Probably 45-55% bad outcomes. 30% okay outcomes. 10% outcomes that merit 250k cost of attendance.


It's a shame that at one point UC Hastings was one of the top 5 law schools west of the Ivy League. Nevertheless, I wish I knew Tulane's outcomes as well as your know UC-Hastings outcomes.


I don't know with precision, just estimating from my own and friends' experiences, factoring in the results from last year and assuming trends have continued. I am quite confident that almost nobody outside the top 10% got anything through OCI, which is what is really most important. That OCI figure used to be 30-35% for Hastings.

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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby jwinaz » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:08 pm

Mick Haller wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:UC Hastings. Probably 45-55% bad outcomes. 30% okay outcomes. 10% outcomes that merit 250k cost of attendance.


It's a shame that at one point UC Hastings was one of the top 5 law schools west of the Ivy League. Nevertheless, I wish I knew Tulane's outcomes as well as your know UC-Hastings outcomes.


I don't know with precision, just estimating from my own and friends' experiences, factoring in the results from last year and assuming trends have continued. I am quite confident that almost nobody outside the top 10% got anything through OCI, which is what is really most important. That OCI figure used to be 30-35% for Hastings.



Was it 2007 that it was 30%? I'm really curious if the entire legal economy can recover to that point again.

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Mick Haller
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby Mick Haller » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:12 pm

yeah from 2000-2007, OCI placement from Hastings was over 30%. Those were good government jobs and private sector jobs paying $100k+. When I entered law school in 2009, it wasn't yet clear just how badly things had dropped off, and the "experts" were promising a speedy economic recovery. I figured sitting out the economy for three years was a smart move. People considering law school today have no excuses.

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Mick Haller
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby Mick Haller » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:28 pm

Here's the NALP chart from 2005. Hastings placed about 17-18% of its class in NLJ250 firms. You figure another 5% or so getting non-NLJ250 firm jobs in excess of 100k, plus another 5% for DA and other desirable government jobs, and you get up to the 30% figure I was talking about.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf

For class of 2011, the number of students working in 250+ law firms was 36/411, or 8.7%. So the biglaw hiring from Hastings is down by roughly half.

ksllaw
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby ksllaw » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:37 pm

Believe it or not, the folks in my TestMasters class still think law school is a good idea.

It's odd that many don't realize how much the economics have changed.

I was one of those people. I'm an OL, but I've had my eyes opened since late summer of last year. I thought going into law would be fine and that I'd have a guaranteed job out of a half-way decent law school. Then I started reading up on it more thoroughly and it shocked me.

I haven't kept in touch with most of the folks in my TM class, but many were still upbeat and seemingly clueless about the process just a few months ago. In fact, some were downright scary in terms of their ignorance. My hunch is that they still view these online critiques as part of the scambloggers camp and lacking in real credibility. That's if they even read this material at all.

I've talked to many class members and they just literally seemed clueless. There may not be an excuse for not knowing nowadays, but I think many still don't know the truth. I worry about my former classmates, because many seemed to have mediocre expectations (one guy said he'd be thrilled to just get a 165). I think they were like me thinking that if they got into a half-way decent school (maybe like lower T1 or top of the T2) that they'd have that $100K job from the way some were talking. I was literally that uninformed just six months ago.

busted
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby busted » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:25 pm

I dunno, at my school most of the people probably fall into the bad experience category.

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dingbat
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby dingbat » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:09 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:It's a shame that at one point UC Hastings was one of the top 5 law schools west of the Ivy League.

5 - Stanford, Chicago, Berkeley, Michigan, Northwestern
10 - UT, UCLA, USC, Vanderbilt, Minnesota
15 - Washington, Notre Dame, WUSTL, (Emory?), and I'm sure you can find a few more that belong here

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Rahviveh
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby Rahviveh » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:39 am

ksllaw wrote:Believe it or not, the folks in my TestMasters class still think law school is a good idea.

It's odd that many don't realize how much the economics have changed.

I was one of those people. I'm an OL, but I've had my eyes opened since late summer of last year. I thought going into law would be fine and that I'd have a guaranteed job out of a half-way decent law school. Then I started reading up on it more thoroughly and it shocked me.

I haven't kept in touch with most of the folks in my TM class, but many were still upbeat and seemingly clueless about the process just a few months ago. In fact, some were downright scary in terms of their ignorance. My hunch is that they still view these online critiques as part of the scambloggers camp and lacking in real credibility. That's if they even read this material at all.

I've talked to many class members and they just literally seemed clueless. There may not be an excuse for not knowing nowadays, but I think many still don't know the truth. I worry about my former classmates, because many seemed to have mediocre expectations (one guy said he'd be thrilled to just get a 165). I think they were like me thinking that if they got into a half-way decent school (maybe like lower T1 or top of the T2) that they'd have that $100K job from the way some were talking. I was literally that uninformed just six months ago.

Imagine teaching these classes :? I try not to say anything to my students unless asked directly (rare). Its tough to stay quiet when you hear so much misinformation though.

jwinaz
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Re: What % of Your Class Would You Say Had "Bad" LS Outcome?

Postby jwinaz » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:26 pm

Mick Haller wrote:Here's the NALP chart from 2005. Hastings placed about 17-18% of its class in NLJ250 firms. You figure another 5% or so getting non-NLJ250 firm jobs in excess of 100k, plus another 5% for DA and other desirable government jobs, and you get up to the 30% figure I was talking about.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf

For class of 2011, the number of students working in 250+ law firms was 36/411, or 8.7%. So the biglaw hiring from Hastings is down by roughly half.



Do you happen to know where folks in the "bad outcome" category have gone or plan to do? Are they going solo or going into non-law jobs? What options are there for them?




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