URM Employment

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Lacepiece23
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URM Employment

Postby Lacepiece23 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:07 am

I know there has been a topic out there on this before. However, I'm just wondering what the general consensus on employment prospects for urm's are ITE. I've heard that above median urm's seem to do well at the T14 come oci time. Wondering if last years 2L's know this to be true. Also, once at the firm does being a urm restrict oppurtunites to advance? Obviously there isn't as much of a support system for urms, but in general if their work product is good do urm's have the same oppurtunity to advance within the firm, or does frim social dynamic really contribute to urms not having the same partnership chances.

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Lacepiece23
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Re: URM Employment

Postby Lacepiece23 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:12 pm

anyone?

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Lacepiece23
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Re: URM Employment

Postby Lacepiece23 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:04 am

sorry to bump my own thread again, maybe a mod can move it to the urm forum. I'm not getting anything here and I feel its a worthy topic.

sparty99
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Re: URM Employment

Postby sparty99 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:18 am

Lacepiece23 wrote:I know there has been a topic out there on this before. However, I'm just wondering what the general consensus on employment prospects for urm's are ITE. I've heard that above median urm's seem to do well at the T14 come oci time. Wondering if last years 2L's know this to be true. Also, once at the firm does being a urm restrict oppurtunites to advance? Obviously there isn't as much of a support system for urms, but in general if their work product is good do urm's have the same oppurtunity to advance within the firm, or does frim social dynamic really contribute to urms not having the same partnership chances.


At the end of the day, your race doesn't matter in recruiting. If you want a job, you need to be top 30%. You don't get a bump for being URM. Do URM's have the same opportunity for advancement? No. How many URM CEO's do you see? How many URM partners do you see? You will have to work twice as hard to get what whites achieve. But you already knew this.

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Lacepiece23
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Re: URM Employment

Postby Lacepiece23 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:18 am

sparty99 wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:I know there has been a topic out there on this before. However, I'm just wondering what the general consensus on employment prospects for urm's are ITE. I've heard that above median urm's seem to do well at the T14 come oci time. Wondering if last years 2L's know this to be true. Also, once at the firm does being a urm restrict oppurtunites to advance? Obviously there isn't as much of a support system for urms, but in general if their work product is good do urm's have the same oppurtunity to advance within the firm, or does frim social dynamic really contribute to urms not having the same partnership chances.


At the end of the day, your race doesn't matter in recruiting. If you want a job, you need to be top 30%. You don't get a bump for being URM. Do URM's have the same opportunity for advancement? No. How many URM CEO's do you see? How many URM partners do you see? You will have to work twice as hard to get what whites achieve. But you already knew this.


thanks for the answer i wasn't trying to make this about race, but i guess race was tied into the question.... I was just wondering if it still played as much of a role in law as i've heard in years past... basiaclly law is still an old boys club. thnx tho

KidStuddi
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Re: URM Employment

Postby KidStuddi » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:16 am

sparty99 wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:I know there has been a topic out there on this before. However, I'm just wondering what the general consensus on employment prospects for urm's are ITE. I've heard that above median urm's seem to do well at the T14 come oci time. Wondering if last years 2L's know this to be true. Also, once at the firm does being a urm restrict oppurtunites to advance? Obviously there isn't as much of a support system for urms, but in general if their work product is good do urm's have the same oppurtunity to advance within the firm, or does frim social dynamic really contribute to urms not having the same partnership chances.


At the end of the day, your race doesn't matter in recruiting. If you want a job, you need to be top 30%. You don't get a bump for being URM. Do URM's have the same opportunity for advancement? No. How many URM CEO's do you see? How many URM partners do you see? You will have to work twice as hard to get what whites achieve. But you already knew this.


I think you're a bit too cynical.

While you won't get a noticeable boost when it comes to actually getting an offer, URM status will allow you more bites at the apple. Assuming you're qualified, you'll be able to attend diversity job fairs all over and get yourself more opportunities for screeners. As finding a SA is a numbers game in many respects, among equally qualified candidates the URMs will probably have an easier time finding a job just because they'll have more chances.

Also, there are diversity scholarships that are only available to URMs, some of which pay 50k on top of your SA salary. Of couse those are insanely competitive, but that kind of shows you that there's a fairly serious demand for URM talent in big law.

Regarding advancement, the URM biglaw mentors I have actually paint a pretty a fairly rosy picture. As they tell it to me, the lack of diversity among the partnership at the very top firms today has a lot to do with well-qualified URM associates (especially AA males) getting poached by F500s and other entities where the diversity PR matters more than it does at a firm. As they see it, there's a fair amount of self selection going on in terms of who ascends to partnership at big firms; that lifestyle isn't for everyone and sometimes opportunities present themselves that make the 8-9 year grind less attractive.

OP, if you want more anecdotal input feel free to pm.

M458
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Re: URM Employment

Postby M458 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:25 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:I know there has been a topic out there on this before. However, I'm just wondering what the general consensus on employment prospects for urm's are ITE. I've heard that above median urm's seem to do well at the T14 come oci time. Wondering if last years 2L's know this to be true. Also, once at the firm does being a urm restrict oppurtunites to advance? Obviously there isn't as much of a support system for urms, but in general if their work product is good do urm's have the same oppurtunity to advance within the firm, or does frim social dynamic really contribute to urms not having the same partnership chances.


At the end of the day, your race doesn't matter in recruiting. If you want a job, you need to be top 30%. You don't get a bump for being URM. Do URM's have the same opportunity for advancement? No. How many URM CEO's do you see? How many URM partners do you see? You will have to work twice as hard to get what whites achieve. But you already knew this.


I think you're a bit too cynical.

While you won't get a noticeable boost when it comes to actually getting an offer, URM status will allow you more bites at the apple. Assuming you're qualified, you'll be able to attend diversity job fairs all over and get yourself more opportunities for screeners. As finding a SA is a numbers game in many respects, among equally qualified candidates the URMs will probably have an easier time finding a job just because they'll have more chances.

Also, there are diversity scholarships that are only available to URMs, some of which pay 50k on top of your SA salary. Of couse those are insanely competitive, but that kind of shows you that there's a fairly serious demand for URM talent in big law.

Regarding advancement, the URM biglaw mentors I have actually paint a pretty a fairly rosy picture. As they tell it to me, the lack of diversity among the partnership at the very top firms today has a lot to do with well-qualified URM associates (especially AA males) getting poached by F500s and other entities where the diversity PR matters more than it does at a firm. As they see it, there's a fair amount of self selection going on in terms of who ascends to partnership at big firms; that lifestyle isn't for everyone and sometimes opportunities present themselves that make the 8-9 year grind less attractive.

OP, if you want more anecdotal input feel free to pm.



Thanks for the helpful advice! Do you think if I'm a non-citizen, non-resident (essentially an international student), I'd still be considered a URM and able to apply for diversity positions? You wouldn't know from my resume that I'm an international student, as I've studied and worked here in the US already.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: URM Employment

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:53 am

URM at Cornell here. I secured a Big Law summer SA position out of the August Jobs Fair and don't have particularly amazing stats. I'm on a secondary journal, have WE, good/interesting softs (not sure if they help or not, but they at least provide good topics for conversation during interviews), and interview very well.

I'm not sure if my experience was typical of most other URMs. I'm hispanic and my URM status isn't obvious just from looking at me. I also didn't go to any diversity fairs or anything like that and didn't really mention diversity at my interviews. I did have my LALSA membership on my resume though, but I'm not sure if that made a difference since not all hispanics are considered to be URMs (or so I've read on TLS).

sparty99 wrote:At the end of the day, your race doesn't matter in recruiting. If you want a job, you need to be top 30%. You don't get a bump for being URM. Do URM's have the same opportunity for advancement? No. How many URM CEO's do you see? How many URM partners do you see? You will have to work twice as hard to get what whites achieve. But you already knew this.


It's true that firms only hire applicants who they believe are smart and competent enough to do the work. That being said, when firms decide who to hire they look at the entire package. They want to hire someone who other attorneys want to work with, who will enhance the overall work environment, and who their clients want to work with. I went on a callback and spoke at length with a Black partner and he mentioned that clients are actually very interested in diversity and want the firms that represent them to be diverse. So you, although there isn't always guaranteed bump for being a URM, it's a possibility. Also, coming out of a T-14, you don't need to be top 30%, regardless of whether or not your are a URM.

M458 wrote:Thanks for the helpful advice! Do you think if I'm a non-citizen, non-resident (essentially an international student), I'd still be considered a URM and able to apply for diversity positions? You wouldn't know from my resume that I'm an international student, as I've studied and worked here in the US already.


It would depend on when you're from. Would you not tell firms that you're an international student?

M458
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: URM Employment

Postby M458 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:04 am

BullShitWithBravado wrote:
M458 wrote:Thanks for the helpful advice! Do you think if I'm a non-citizen, non-resident (essentially an international student), I'd still be considered a URM and able to apply for diversity positions? You wouldn't know from my resume that I'm an international student, as I've studied and worked here in the US already.


It would depend on when you're from. Would you not tell firms that you're an international student?


I'm from Mexico, but you wouldn't know it from looking at my resume as I went to undergrad here, did internships here all throughout college, and have worked full-time for a couple years here in the US as well.

Is that something that I'd have to explicitly tell them at the very beginning? I know when I applied to jobs out of undergrad, there were a LOT I couldn't even be considered for b/c of my visa status. I sort of hoped that this wouldn't be an issue with Big Law.




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