NYU 2Ls taking questions Forum

[ssteiner]

Do many IP/patent boutiques come to OCI? How does this number compare to other schools?

Anecdotally, how have your patent-bar-eligible peers done come OCI, and is the "patent boost" noticeable/valid?

I ask because NYU doesn't seem particularly well-known for IP stuff (correct me if I'm wrong about this) and I'm not sure whether there is a lack of IP boutiques in New York, particularly compared to California.

If you're particularly interested in doing patent law (and have the technical background), scoring a job with a great IP firm/boutique should not be a problem for you. Every person I know with an engineering degree is going to work for a great IP boutique or IP-heavy firm this summer (their 1L summer).

Generally, I think NYU does pretty well in the IP area, though it's a fairly tough area to get into because it's pretty small and a lot of people want to do it. I know several non-patent people who are spending their summers doing IP litigation in the copyright or trademark field. If you're dead set on IP a California school might be the best option, but from what I understand there are a fair number of IP places, both from NY and California, that come interview on campus in the summer/fall.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Do many IP/patent boutiques come to OCI? How does this number compare to other schools?

Anecdotally, how have your patent-bar-eligible peers done come OCI, and is the "patent boost" noticeable/valid?

I ask because NYU doesn't seem particularly well-known for IP stuff (correct me if I'm wrong about this) and I'm not sure whether there is a lack of IP boutiques in New York, particularly compared to California.

If you're particularly interested in doing patent law (and have the technical background), scoring a job with a great IP firm/boutique should not be a problem for you. Every person I know with an engineering degree is going to work for a great IP boutique or IP-heavy firm this summer (their 1L summer).

Generally, I think NYU does pretty well in the IP area, though it's a fairly tough area to get into because it's pretty small and a lot of people want to do it. I know several non-patent people who are spending their summers doing IP litigation in the copyright or trademark field. If you're dead set on IP a California school might be the best option, but from what I understand there are a fair number of IP places, both from NY and California, that come interview on campus in the summer/fall.

I don't know of many IP boutiques, though it isn't my area of expertise, but lots of NY biglaw firms hire lots of IP (patent) people. Being interested in that type of work and having the right background makes you very, very attractive. It doesn't really seem to matter whether your school is "known" for being IP oriented. Someone with more experience in this area might have better insight but anecdotally, everyone with hard science backgrounds seems to have done exceptionally well in recruiting.

[thelawyler]

Do many IP/patent boutiques come to OCI? How does this number compare to other schools?

Anecdotally, how have your patent-bar-eligible peers done come OCI, and is the "patent boost" noticeable/valid?

I ask because NYU doesn't seem particularly well-known for IP stuff (correct me if I'm wrong about this) and I'm not sure whether there is a lack of IP boutiques in New York, particularly compared to California.

All the engineers I know killed it in hiring for 1L summer and got sweet firm gigs doing IP. I also happened to talk to many IP people at the big NYC firms here, and it looks like there is a lot of IP work being done in the city. Lots of IP boutiques, a new start-up culture getting big, etc. Not sure how it compares to SV level, but I do know of at least one 1L who got an IP gig in SF without any ties. I'd say NYU not being known for IP is more to do with its PI and traditional corp slant than anything else - employers know the caliber of students here and hire according - esp if you have an engineering degree.

[spaceman82]

1. Almost all self-selection. I'm a just-graduated firm person but have a ton of just-graduated public interest friends (maybe more than firm friends). All of them were interested in PI from the beginning. There are probably a handful of people who struck out and decided to go for PI, but they're a tiny proportion.

4. Many of the funded jobs are so-called "PILC welfare" for public interest people who didn't have jobs at graduation. (Some are stuff like the Brennan Center, which is really prestigious and can be long-term.) PILC welfare is mostly an acknowledgement that significant PI hiring takes place after bar admission (depending on your focus; PD and government hire before graduation, but nonprofit orgs often don't), so PI people need transitionary jobs in the mean time. I don't know anyone who isn't PI-focused in some capacity who is going to a school-funded job.

How are things looking for your PI friends in terms of finding permanent positions in areas they're interested in? I know you mentioned non-profit organizations won't generally hire someone until they've passed the bar, but are your friends upbeat about their prospects after they pass the bar and do you have any sense of what kinds of work some of them might end up doing?

[suralin]

Do many IP/patent boutiques come to OCI? How does this number compare to other schools?

Anecdotally, how have your patent-bar-eligible peers done come OCI, and is the "patent boost" noticeable/valid?

I ask because NYU doesn't seem particularly well-known for IP stuff (correct me if I'm wrong about this) and I'm not sure whether there is a lack of IP boutiques in New York, particularly compared to California.

If you're particularly interested in doing patent law (and have the technical background), scoring a job with a great IP firm/boutique should not be a problem for you. Every person I know with an engineering degree is going to work for a great IP boutique or IP-heavy firm this summer (their 1L summer).

Generally, I think NYU does pretty well in the IP area, though it's a fairly tough area to get into because it's pretty small and a lot of people want to do it. I know several non-patent people who are spending their summers doing IP litigation in the copyright or trademark field. If you're dead set on IP a California school might be the best option, but from what I understand there are a fair number of IP places, both from NY and California, that come interview on campus in the summer/fall.

I don't know of many IP boutiques, though it isn't my area of expertise, but lots of NY biglaw firms hire lots of IP (patent) people. Being interested in that type of work and having the right background makes you very, very attractive. It doesn't really seem to matter whether your school is "known" for being IP oriented. Someone with more experience in this area might have better insight but anecdotally, everyone with hard science backgrounds seems to have done exceptionally well in recruiting.

Thanks for the detailed answers both of you! I'm assuming right background means CS/EE undergrad degree? If so, that makes me feel a little less anxious about law school if I do decide to go that route in the future; it's very encouraging that it seems that patent-eligible 1Ls at NYU can get SAs.

All the engineers I know killed it in hiring for 1L summer and got sweet firm gigs doing IP. I also happened to talk to many IP people at the big NYC firms here, and it looks like there is a lot of IP work being done in the city. Lots of IP boutiques, a new start-up culture getting big, etc. Not sure how it compares to SV level, but I do know of at least one 1L who got an IP gig in SF without any ties. I'd say NYU not being known for IP is more to do with its PI and traditional corp slant than anything else - employers know the caliber of students here and hire according - esp if you have an engineering degree.

Thanks! This is very very encouraging as well, especially the part about a strong emerging start-up culture since that's the aspect I think SV really excels in.

[JamMasterJ]

Do many IP/patent boutiques come to OCI? How does this number compare to other schools?

Anecdotally, how have your patent-bar-eligible peers done come OCI, and is the "patent boost" noticeable/valid?

I ask because NYU doesn't seem particularly well-known for IP stuff (correct me if I'm wrong about this) and I'm not sure whether there is a lack of IP boutiques in New York, particularly compared to California.

All the engineers I know killed it in hiring for 1L summer and got sweet firm gigs doing IP. I also happened to talk to many IP people at the big NYC firms here, and it looks like there is a lot of IP work being done in the city. Lots of IP boutiques, a new start-up culture getting big, etc. Not sure how it compares to SV level, but I do know of at least one 1L who got an IP gig in SF without any ties. I'd say NYU not being known for IP is more to do with its PI and traditional corp slant than anything else - employers know the caliber of students here and hire according - esp if you have an engineering degree.

Yeah I think our reputation is due more to the fact that NY isn't traditionally an IP-heavy market but it has moved that way recently. We're now the second biggest IP market in the country, which I assume will have an effect on the lawyers here

[thelawyler]

Do many IP/patent boutiques come to OCI? How does this number compare to other schools?

Anecdotally, how have your patent-bar-eligible peers done come OCI, and is the "patent boost" noticeable/valid?

I ask because NYU doesn't seem particularly well-known for IP stuff (correct me if I'm wrong about this) and I'm not sure whether there is a lack of IP boutiques in New York, particularly compared to California.

All the engineers I know killed it in hiring for 1L summer and got sweet firm gigs doing IP. I also happened to talk to many IP people at the big NYC firms here, and it looks like there is a lot of IP work being done in the city. Lots of IP boutiques, a new start-up culture getting big, etc. Not sure how it compares to SV level, but I do know of at least one 1L who got an IP gig in SF without any ties. I'd say NYU not being known for IP is more to do with its PI and traditional corp slant than anything else - employers know the caliber of students here and hire according - esp if you have an engineering degree.

Yeah I think our reputation is due more to the fact that NY isn't traditionally an IP-heavy market but it has moved that way recently. We're now the second biggest IP market in the country, which I assume will have an effect on the lawyers here

I also want to add that Mayor Bloomberg and the city in general has as one of its objectives/goals to diversify New York City's economy away from being so finance heavy. They want to build a high tech, research, and education economy here as well. It seems to be trending toward that direction - maybe not fast enough for current students - but that is a very publicly stated goal. We got Cornell's new tech campus on Roosevelt Island, Columbia's expansion, and NYU's expansion, etc. I mean, there's enough money flying around here to seed-fund start ups all over, so I guess it makes sense.

[BenJ]

1. Almost all self-selection. I'm a just-graduated firm person but have a ton of just-graduated public interest friends (maybe more than firm friends). All of them were interested in PI from the beginning. There are probably a handful of people who struck out and decided to go for PI, but they're a tiny proportion.

4. Many of the funded jobs are so-called "PILC welfare" for public interest people who didn't have jobs at graduation. (Some are stuff like the Brennan Center, which is really prestigious and can be long-term.) PILC welfare is mostly an acknowledgement that significant PI hiring takes place after bar admission (depending on your focus; PD and government hire before graduation, but nonprofit orgs often don't), so PI people need transitionary jobs in the mean time. I don't know anyone who isn't PI-focused in some capacity who is going to a school-funded job.

How are things looking for your PI friends in terms of finding permanent positions in areas they're interested in? I know you mentioned non-profit organizations won't generally hire someone until they've passed the bar, but are your friends upbeat about their prospects after they pass the bar and do you have any sense of what kinds of work some of them might end up doing?

So, I only have one good friend who is going on PILC welfare after graduation. She actually had a job offer in NY state government in her area of interest, but chose to turn down that offer in favor of pursuing her future elsewhere in the country using a one-year PILC-funded job and taking a different state's bar. She seems confident that she'll be able to transition into a permanent position in that state within a year, though I have no idea how realistic that assessment is. I generally feel like everyone has a good head on their shoulders at estimating their prospects, though--or at least those who are wildly over-optimistic or pessimistic clearly come off that way.

I think this is generally true, but I really know very little about long-term prospects in PI areas.

[senorhosh]

1. Would you recommend NYU at sticker, knowing what you know now?

2. What happened to those who strike out at OCI (if you know any)? The thought of 300k debt and striking out is pretty scare..

3. What's the class grade distribution like? What I is what percent of the class is at median, top 25%, etc. and how does this compare to other schools? (ie: I'd imagine a school where the majority if the class is at median will have both its pros and cons).

4. I keep hearing "80% of participants got an offer at EIW". Besides ASW, where can I get more info on this? Why are biglaw rates much lower than that (20-30%)?

[02889]

Can someone give a quick rundown of the student budget increase process? I know people have mentioned that it's pretty easy, but the FinAid office said over email that budget increase requests are accepted in October, which doesn't help when I'm signing a lease and figuring out costs in July/August.

(Also, to note, I'm just looking for some info on the increase process, not tips on how to live more cheaply or anything.)

[Nothing but the Funk]

If it's not to personal could you give a break down of what your cost of living is like?

[02889]

If it's not to personal could you give a break down of what your cost of living is like?

I'm not looking to spend a crazy amount on the apartment (hopefully not more than $1800/month for a 1 br/studio), but I'll be living with my SO and for at least part of the year I'll have to pay the whole rent, so even a small bump in the allotted budget would be a relief.

[IFoughtTheLaw]

1. Would you recommend NYU at sticker, knowing what you know now?

2. What happened to those who strike out at OCI (if you know any)? The thought of 300k debt and striking out is pretty scare..

3. What's the class grade distribution like? What I is what percent of the class is at median, top 25%, etc. and how does this compare to other schools? (ie: I'd imagine a school where the majority if the class is at median will have both its pros and cons).

4. I keep hearing "80% of participants got an offer at EIW". Besides ASW, where can I get more info on this? Why are biglaw rates much lower than that (20-30%)?

1) This is impossible to answer without more detail on you. For the right person, sure.

2) I know at least 3 who struck out. One got a job at a smaller firm they are very happy with. The two others eventually found firm jobs, but are looking to switch during 3L, because the firm is either not in their ideal geography or practice area. In all cases, I think they were insufficiently serious about OCI, and had they done their homework and prepared well, could have avoided striking out.

3.) What? 25% is top 25%. I'm either missing something here or this question makes me weep for law students numerical skills... If you mean what the grade distribution is (how many get A-, B+, etc.) google "NYU law grade distribution" and you'll find a file on the NYU website.

4.) Towards the end of 1L they give you lots of private data they don't like to release publicly.

[JamMasterJ]

1. Would you recommend NYU at sticker, knowing what you know now?

2. What happened to those who strike out at OCI (if you know any)? The thought of 300k debt and striking out is pretty scare..

3. What's the class grade distribution like? What I is what percent of the class is at median, top 25%, etc. and how does this compare to other schools? (ie: I'd imagine a school where the majority if the class is at median will have both its pros and cons).

4. I keep hearing "80% of participants got an offer at EIW". Besides ASW, where can I get more info on this? Why are biglaw rates much lower than that (20-30%)?

1) This is impossible to answer without more detail on you. For the right person, sure.

2) I know at least 3 who struck out. One got a job at a smaller firm they are very happy with. The two others eventually found firm jobs, but are looking to switch during 3L, because the firm is either not in their ideal geography or practice area. In all cases, I think they were insufficiently serious about OCI, and had they done their homework and prepared well, could have avoided striking out.

3.) What? 25% is top 25%. I'm either missing something here or this question makes me weep for law students numerical skills... If you mean what the grade distribution is (how many get A-, B+, etc.) google "NYU law grade distribution" and you'll find a file on the NYU website.

4.) Towards the end of 1L they give you lots of private data they don't like to release publicly.

it's also a little over 80%, and that doesn't account for FoughttheLaw's friends who got a firm job outside of EIW

[senorhosh]

1. Would you recommend NYU at sticker, knowing what you know now?

2. What happened to those who strike out at OCI (if you know any)? The thought of 300k debt and striking out is pretty scare..

3. What's the class grade distribution like? What I is what percent of the class is at median, top 25%, etc. and how does this compare to other schools? (ie: I'd imagine a school where the majority if the class is at median will have both its pros and cons).

4. I keep hearing "80% of participants got an offer at EIW". Besides ASW, where can I get more info on this? Why are biglaw rates much lower than that (20-30%)?

1) This is impossible to answer without more detail on you. For the right person, sure.

2) I know at least 3 who struck out. One got a job at a smaller firm they are very happy with. The two others eventually found firm jobs, but are looking to switch during 3L, because the firm is either not in their ideal geography or practice area. In all cases, I think they were insufficiently serious about OCI, and had they done their homework and prepared well, could have avoided striking out.

3.) What? 25% is top 25%. I'm either missing something here or this question makes me weep for law students numerical skills... If you mean what the grade distribution is (how many get A-, B+, etc.) google "NYU law grade distribution" and you'll find a file on the NYU website.

4.) Towards the end of 1L they give you lots of private data they don't like to release publicly.

Thanks!
As for #3...
I was under the impression class rank was "estimated" rather than exact.
(Ie: Rank 45-55% would all fall under "median") Not sure where I heard that from but if it's not true then my question is moot.

[zworykin]

1. Would you recommend NYU at sticker, knowing what you know now?

2. What happened to those who strike out at OCI (if you know any)? The thought of 300k debt and striking out is pretty scare..

3. What's the class grade distribution like? What I is what percent of the class is at median, top 25%, etc. and how does this compare to other schools? (ie: I'd imagine a school where the majority if the class is at median will have both its pros and cons).

4. I keep hearing "80% of participants got an offer at EIW". Besides ASW, where can I get more info on this? Why are biglaw rates much lower than that (20-30%)?

1) This is impossible to answer without more detail on you. For the right person, sure.

2) I know at least 3 who struck out. One got a job at a smaller firm they are very happy with. The two others eventually found firm jobs, but are looking to switch during 3L, because the firm is either not in their ideal geography or practice area. In all cases, I think they were insufficiently serious about OCI, and had they done their homework and prepared well, could have avoided striking out.

3.) What? 25% is top 25%. I'm either missing something here or this question makes me weep for law students numerical skills... If you mean what the grade distribution is (how many get A-, B+, etc.) google "NYU law grade distribution" and you'll find a file on the NYU website.

4.) Towards the end of 1L they give you lots of private data they don't like to release publicly.

Thanks!
As for #3...
I was under the impression class rank was "estimated" rather than exact.
(Ie: Rank 45-55% would all fall under "median") Not sure where I heard that from but if it's not true then my question is moot.

Well, yeah, only one person (plus ties, if there are any) will actually BE the median. How many people are close enough that you would consider them "at the median" is up to you--if the median is 3.27, do you want to consider the range of 3.25-3.30 close enough? 3.20-3.35? However many people would make it five percent (ten percent, fifteen percent, etc.) of the class? There is no official "median" ranking, since there are no rankings at all, and they'll never tell us what the median actually is.

I think what you're really trying to ask here is how tightly packed the grade distribution is--that is, if the median is 3.27, how many people will fall in the approximate range of 3.20-3.35. Unfortunately, there isn't really any way for us to answer this, since the school is so tight-lipped when it comes to GPAs (we officially "don't have GPAs" at all, actually ). That being said, it's probably safe to assume a fairly standard bell curve--most of the students will naturally be somewhere near the median, with fewer and fewer people as you get further away from it in either direction. I don't see any reason to think the curve is a particularly narrow or a particularly broad one (but to be fair, I'm certainly no statistician, so perhaps there's something I'm just not seeing).

[worthymocka]

XXXXX

[kaiser]

Hey, any advice on 0L summer preparation?

1) NYU advertises Law Preview, but do people actually do this and is there any value/return on investment?
2) Is there anything that would be helpful to read in advance of fall semester (LEEWS, Getting to Maybe, etc.) ? To be honest, I don't have much of a clue of what to expect once I begin law school.

Thanks.

1 is completely unnecessary. It would only help if the exam were given on day 1, which is the only day that you would have some marginally higher knowledge of substantive law. But by the time exams come around, that marginal advantage is gone anyway. Absolutely no need for this.

As for 2, I think skimming GTM can be a good idea. If you gives you an idea of how to approach and attack the material throughout the semester. Its nothing groundbreaking, and actually seems quite intuitive after awhile. But it is a total departure from undergraduate exams, so can't hurt to familiarize yourself. That being said, don't try to drill every word. Also, you likely won't understand much of the book at first. That is fine. I read the first half in the month before school, then picked it back up halfway through the semester, and the whole thing made much more sense. I tailored my approach to all the material (of course taking into account each professor's particularities), and did well because of it. But don't go overboard. The general concept (ie.. finding forks, embracing ambiguities, discussing problems as a tree of possibilities, etc.) isn't all that detailed. No need to spend countless hours listening to LEEWS or drillinge very word of GTM.

[sinfiery]

How are biglaw prospects for someone with Texas ties? (k-UG) Are 1L SAs possible?

[JamMasterJ]

How are biglaw prospects for someone with Texas ties? (k-UG) Are 1L SAs possible?

Better than for anyone except maybe IP people. Still hard though. 2L prospects are great though if you bid a bunch in NY, some in TX, and mass mail TX

[sinfiery]

How are biglaw prospects for someone with Texas ties? (k-UG) Are 1L SAs possible?

Better than for anyone except maybe IP people. Still hard though. 2L prospects are great though if you bid a bunch in NY, some in TX, and mass mail TX

Awesome! I was hoping I could focus on NYC with TX as a safety net.

[JamMasterJ]

How are biglaw prospects for someone with Texas ties? (k-UG) Are 1L SAs possible?

Better than for anyone except maybe IP people. Still hard though. 2L prospects are great though if you bid a bunch in NY, some in TX, and mass mail TX

Awesome! I was hoping I could focus on NYC with TX as a safety net.

yeah, you should be in pretty great shape

[heybobo]

Does anyone who was in mercer/d'ag know how serious the "we do not hold packages for incoming students prior to check-in" thing is? I'm coming over from Hawaii and am pretty much just bringing clothes. I was mostly planning on getting things like bedding etc. mailed before I leave or buying online, but now I'm worried that it'll get there ahead of me since I'll be stopping in California for a few days. Thanks in advance!

[zworykin]

Does anyone who was in mercer/d'ag know how serious the "we do not hold packages for incoming students prior to check-in" thing is? I'm coming over from Hawaii and am pretty much just bringing clothes. I was mostly planning on getting things like bedding etc. mailed before I leave or buying online, but now I'm worried that it'll get there ahead of me since I'll be stopping in California for a few days. Thanks in advance!

I overheard someone talking to the front desk yesterday as I was passing through. For her, it was apparently very serious--her packages had been turned away the day before she checked in.

[risa]

Can someone give a quick rundown of the student budget increase process? I know people have mentioned that it's pretty easy, but the FinAid office said over email that budget increase requests are accepted in October, which doesn't help when I'm signing a lease and figuring out costs in July/August.

(Also, to note, I'm just looking for some info on the increase process, not tips on how to live more cheaply or anything.)

If it's not to personal could you give a break down of what your cost of living is like?

I'm not looking to spend a crazy amount on the apartment (hopefully not more than $1800/month for a 1 br/studio), but I'll be living with my SO and for at least part of the year I'll have to pay the whole rent, so even a small bump in the allotted budget would be a relief.

I'm very interested in the answer to this too. I was told by financial aid that "Students can apply for budget adjustments for living expenses. There is no cap, however, students have to show that they have legitimate and reasonable education-related expenses causing you to exceed the approved student budget." It's not really clear to me what would qualify as a legitimate and reasonable education-related expense as it relates to living expenses. Do any current students know of anyone who got such an increase approved and what sorts of reasons were considered "legitimate and reasonable" ? Basically, I really, really want to live by myself. I'm on the older side for a 0L and have just had too many stressful roommate situations and am very ready to live alone (bad timing, I know). I'd feel a little silly, but if necessary, I could argue mental-health-type reasons for wanting to live alone and could probably get my doctor to write a letter backing as much up. Do you think that'd be enough to get a small increase so I can afford a studio on my own?