Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

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kuttlefish
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Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby kuttlefish » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:17 am

Well.. one of my threads got horribly derailed. Before I go any further, please no one say the words "brain drain" when responding to this post.

I'm a 0L looking at my options outside of my Louisiana civil law bubble...specifically William & Mary and/or Washington & Lee. Now, I assume a lot of students go to those schools looking for a backdoor into DC big law. If DC doesn't happen, what are the secondary Virginia markets like? Please no lectures on debt, I'm fully aware of the costs + col + yada yada. I'm looking for info like First year salaries in VA? What kind of class ranking you need to do well at OCI? Do UVA and the DC schools devour all in their paths? Are there other comparable markets nearby that these schools feed in to (Carolinas? Tennessee?)

z0rk
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Re: Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby z0rk » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:54 pm

I used to work in the Maryland market, I currently attend law school in DC, and I have only gone to one trial in the VA market in Fairfax County Circuit Court. As per the market there, I cannot comment to the elite status but I will say that some reputable big firms are headquartered in the state of VA (Hunton and Williams is the first example that comes to mind- http://www.hunton.com/). Many BigLaw VA firms have offices in NOVA and the Richmond area. I assume that the NOVA offices are more DC focused whereas the Richmond area is more VA focused.

As per the attorneys who were opposing counsel in the litigation I was involved with in Fairfax: One was from Harvard, another from Michigan, and the final from Wake Forest. We also had our own local counsel because we were admitted Pro Hac Vice and he attended GMU.

ksllaw
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Re: Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby ksllaw » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:27 pm

Would University of Maryland, Baltimore LS and William & Mary LS generally be pushed out by UVA, GW, and Georgetown in that region in terms of mid-law and small firm hiring?

I'm assuming UMB and WM don't have much clout in biglaw hiring there (correct me if I'm wrong!!!), but what about mid to small law firms in that region? Is there still pretty decent respect for UMB and WM?

Green Crayons
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Re: Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby Green Crayons » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:22 pm

W&M brand is solid for Virginia firms, and for the offices of big law firms that are in Virginia. My understanding is that UVA/Georgetown kids tend to focus on the big law firms in the big law cities (NY/DC) -- but wherever it is, they aren't saturating the Virginia market at the expense of W&M hiring. (This is not the same as saying the employment prospects from W&M are stellar.)

I'm not to sure what you mean by secondary Virginia markets. Richmond and Norfolk have plenty of W&M grads. I haven't the slightest as to other cities in Virginia, but I also don't know of anyone who wants to go anywhere other than Richmond or Norfolk and stay within Virginia (a just-out-of-DC office, such as Tyson's Corner, not included).

ksllaw
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Re: Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby ksllaw » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:23 pm

Green Crayons wrote:W&M brand is solid for Virginia firms, and for the offices of big law firms that are in Virginia. My understanding is that UVA/Georgetown kids tend to focus on the big law firms in the big law cities (NY/DC) -- but wherever it is, they aren't saturating the Virginia market at the expense of W&M hiring. (This is not the same as saying the employment prospects from W&M are stellar.)

I'm not to sure what you mean by secondary Virginia markets. Richmond and Norfolk have plenty of W&M grads. I haven't the slightest as to other cities in Virginia, but I also don't know of anyone who wants to go anywhere other than Richmond or Norfolk and stay within Virginia (a just-out-of-DC office, such as Tyson's Corner, not included).


Is William & Mary also portable to Maryland, Tennessee, and/or North Carolina? I'm considering W&M, because of immediate family ties there.

I asked about UMB, because I have two friends who attend there. Both have UG science backgrounds and are interested in patent law, but don't seem to be donig that well in seeking employment.

I have a good number of friends & familiy in the DC area, so Virginia, Maryland, Tennessee, and North Carolina would be one potential region (the mid-West being another) I'd be interested in working and attending law school.

I would be targeting UVA, Georgetown, and Vanderbilt for that region. But also looking at some "lower" schools in that area as well that might give access to that region. So that's why I wondered about WM and UMB. Just don't want to be "stuck" with zero portability if I got a JD from those schools. Ideally I'd want to have access to the entire MD/VA/TN/NC quad-state region if possible.

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kuttlefish
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Re: Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby kuttlefish » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:07 pm

Green Crayons wrote:I'm not to sure what you mean by secondary Virginia markets. Richmond and Norfolk have plenty of W&M grads. I haven't the slightest as to other cities in Virginia, but I also don't know of anyone who wants to go anywhere other than Richmond or Norfolk and stay within Virginia (a just-out-of-DC office, such as Tyson's Corner, not included).


You pretty much answered my question. By "secondary markets," I was trying to distinguish between the VA firms and the "just-out-of-DC" firms. I just don't know the area/lingo as well as other cities.

I'm assuming that top 5% or higher from the W&_ schools gives you a shot at DC, and everyone else ends up in some mid-sized Virginia firms that deal with in-state businesses (the ones that get hired anyway). Mainly I was looking for confirmation on that theory.

Do you know if you need to have strong ties to the area, or is it more grade/prestige/merit based?

Do you know what Virginia Big Law salaries look like? I know down here in New Orleans $80k-$110k is about as big as it gets for a first year associate.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:13 pm

You need to be above median just to have a shot at Richmond biglaw from UVA. More like top 10% for Hunton and Mcguire. Top 1/3 for Williams Mullen. The rest of the Richmond firms (small or not) don't like going below median. I shudder to think about what you need at W&L and W&M.

hoogs23
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Re: Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby hoogs23 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:25 am

I'm from VA, Newport News region and mid-size firms usually hire in-state schools with students who have had internships or personal ties. I have known some who have no ties, but are usually at the top of the class.

Younger Abstention
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Re: Status of the VA (non-DC) market? (W&M, W&L)

Postby Younger Abstention » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:41 am

These "other" legal markets (Richmond, and I'm not really sure what else) you speak of are not viable employment options unless you have ties to the region and do extremely well at either W&M and W&L.




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