Georgetown Law to California?

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xjustyoursmile
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Georgetown Law to California?

Postby xjustyoursmile » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:16 am

I just got into Georgetown and I'm really excited!
The only thing is, my top priority is being able to come back to California after I graduate and get a job.
Will that be an issue?

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bk1
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby bk1 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:32 am

It's not that simple and it depends on your other options. With a 3.1 the likelihood is that you won't get into any good (SLS/Berkeley/UCLA/USC) CA schools. You also likely won't get into any decent (UCD/UCH/UCI) CA schools at a price that makes them worth attending. And with a 3.1 you will likely be taking out a substantial sum for GULC (or any other top school) you might attend.

If you're going to take out a lot of money, it would be irresponsible not to be okay with working outside of your desired market. Whether it's biglaw or LRAP-eligible jobs (not that the latter is that large a category), being open to other places (e.g. NYC/DC) is going to make it much easier to find a job that can satisfy your debt level. GULC can get you CA, but it isn't easy. It will definitely be hard to find a biglaw job that can pay back that kind of debt if you are only focused on CA. As for non-biglaw jobs, you will likely be at a disadvantage to local CA students who can intern/network/etc during the school year while you cannot.

If you would only ever work in CA, I wouldn't suggest GULC (or any non-CA school save possibly H/Y for that matter). But you also likely won't get any CA schools at a reasonable price.

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xjustyoursmile
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby xjustyoursmile » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:48 am

bk1 wrote:It's not that simple and it depends on your other options. With a 3.1 the likelihood is that you won't get into any good (SLS/Berkeley/UCLA/USC) CA schools. You also likely won't get into any decent (UCD/UCH/UCI) CA schools at a price that makes them worth attending. And with a 3.1 you will likely be taking out a substantial sum for GULC (or any other top school) you might attend.

If you're going to take out a lot of money, it would be irresponsible not to be okay with working outside of your desired market. Whether it's biglaw or LRAP-eligible jobs (not that the latter is that large a category), being open to other places (e.g. NYC/DC) is going to make it much easier to find a job that can satisfy your debt level. GULC can get you CA, but it isn't easy. It will definitely be hard to find a biglaw job that can pay back that kind of debt if you are only focused on CA. As for non-biglaw jobs, you will likely be at a disadvantage to local CA students who can intern/network/etc during the school year while you cannot.

If you would only ever work in CA, I wouldn't suggest GULC (or any non-CA school save possibly H/Y for that matter). But you also likely won't get any CA schools at a reasonable price.



Thank you for the info, but money isn't actually a problem. My parents have enough to send me to law school wihtout taking out any loans. With that in mind, would you say that GULC would be worth it? I understand that you say it is difficult to get a biglaw job that will pay back debt, but what about a decent paying law job? Would doing summer internships in CA help or is that too difficult to obtain?

mushybrain
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby mushybrain » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:11 pm

I would talk to some of the students in the Georgetown threads already going on the forums. (Or do a search in them, because it's probably been discussed.) California is tough because there's no shortage of good candidates from the good schools here.

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xjustyoursmile
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby xjustyoursmile » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:22 pm

mushybrain wrote:I would talk to some of the students in the Georgetown threads already going on the forums. (Or do a search in them, because it's probably been discussed.) California is tough because there's no shortage of good candidates from the good schools here.



Thanks for the advice. I'm getting in touch with some alumni right now (:

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bk1
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby bk1 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:51 pm

xjustyoursmile wrote:Thank you for the info, but money isn't actually a problem. My parents have enough to send me to law school wihtout taking out any loans. With that in mind, would you say that GULC would be worth it? I understand that you say it is difficult to get a biglaw job that will pay back debt, but what about a decent paying law job? Would doing summer internships in CA help or is that too difficult to obtain?


Parents: this will depend on you, but at least for me this does throw some wrinkles in the calculus. If your parents are giving you essentially a gift (rather than an interest free loan) and can afford the 200k that they are forking over with minimal impact to their current situation then I would be less cautious with their money. If it is an interest free loan or they are taking a significant hit to their financial situation to afford the 200k then I would want to pay back the 200k to them and be as cautious as I would be with my own (loan) money. So this really depends on your and your parents situation and how you feel about it.

It depends what you mean by "decent paying." With no loans, arguably a 50k job is decent paying. If you mean more than that then you run into the issue that law salaries are bimodal. There is biglaw (that pays 6 figures) and there is everything else (that pays in the 30-60k range). The jobs in between those two modes are so rare as to be generally irrelevant. This also ignores the "3rd mode": being unemployed or not employed as a full time, long term lawyer. GULC gives you about a 50% shot at a good job (PI/gov/biglaw/A3 clerkship), a 25% chance at a low paying lawyer job, and a 25% chance of being unemployed or not employed as a lawyer. Those odds are okay and I think for "free" pretty damn good. But there is a substantial risk (50%) that you will be unemployed or employed in a position that does not pay much (which may or may not be "decent paying" depending on what you mean by that).

A summer internship in CA is not difficult to get, especially for someone with CA ties. But that's not going to change much since you already have CA ties. The issue is that biglaw will be grades obsessed. If you don't have good grades you'll be looking towards non-biglaw positions (e.g. small firms). These firms, while they do care about prestige/grades, are going to care a lot less than biglaw. You will be at a marked disadvantage to local schools (e.g. UCLA/USC/UCD/UCH) who have local alumni networks much larger than GULC, give their students plenty of opportunities to network with local employers (that GULC does not since it is in DC), and allows them to intern/work in CA and possible get hired that way (that GULC does not). These students basically have all 3 years in CA whereas GULC only offers 2 summers in CA and thus is at a relative disadvantage.

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xjustyoursmile
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby xjustyoursmile » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:50 pm

bk1 wrote:
xjustyoursmile wrote:Thank you for the info, but money isn't actually a problem. My parents have enough to send me to law school wihtout taking out any loans. With that in mind, would you say that GULC would be worth it? I understand that you say it is difficult to get a biglaw job that will pay back debt, but what about a decent paying law job? Would doing summer internships in CA help or is that too difficult to obtain?


Parents: this will depend on you, but at least for me this does throw some wrinkles in the calculus. If your parents are giving you essentially a gift (rather than an interest free loan) and can afford the 200k that they are forking over with minimal impact to their current situation then I would be less cautious with their money. If it is an interest free loan or they are taking a significant hit to their financial situation to afford the 200k then I would want to pay back the 200k to them and be as cautious as I would be with my own (loan) money. So this really depends on your and your parents situation and how you feel about it.

It depends what you mean by "decent paying." With no loans, arguably a 50k job is decent paying. If you mean more than that then you run into the issue that law salaries are bimodal. There is biglaw (that pays 6 figures) and there is everything else (that pays in the 30-60k range). The jobs in between those two modes are so rare as to be generally irrelevant. This also ignores the "3rd mode": being unemployed or not employed as a full time, long term lawyer. GULC gives you about a 50% shot at a good job (PI/gov/biglaw/A3 clerkship), a 25% chance at a low paying lawyer job, and a 25% chance of being unemployed or not employed as a lawyer. Those odds are okay and I think for "free" pretty damn good. But there is a substantial risk (50%) that you will be unemployed or employed in a position that does not pay much (which may or may not be "decent paying" depending on what you mean by that).

A summer internship in CA is not difficult to get, especially for someone with CA ties. But that's not going to change much since you already have CA ties. The issue is that biglaw will be grades obsessed. If you don't have good grades you'll be looking towards non-biglaw positions (e.g. small firms). These firms, while they do care about prestige/grades, are going to care a lot less than biglaw. You will be at a marked disadvantage to local schools (e.g. UCLA/USC/UCD/UCH) who have local alumni networks much larger than GULC, give their students plenty of opportunities to network with local employers (that GULC does not since it is in DC), and allows them to intern/work in CA and possible get hired that way (that GULC does not). These students basically have all 3 years in CA whereas GULC only offers 2 summers in CA and thus is at a relative disadvantage.



thank you so much for this, it helps a lot! I'm still waiting to hear from Cali schools but you bring up some good points to consider. I am glad though that GULC won't make it hard for me to come back to CA. I understand that there will be competition and it's something to consider, but I'll be competing either way... I really have to mull all this over and wait for some more acceptances. Thanks so much (:

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swtlilsoni
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby swtlilsoni » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:39 pm

I think if you can't get into a good CA school, just go to the best T14 you can get into (since they're pretty national). However, don't go to a regional school outside CA (non T14).

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bobr
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby bobr » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:28 am

Somewhat on a similar train of thought.

How high must a school be ranked for one to choose it over ucla/usc if one ideally wants to return to CA? E.g. Michigan > UCLA? if want to return to CA or not worth it, just choose ucla.

Thank you!

BigZuck
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:52 pm

Sounds like your parents are rich and you'll never have to worry about money so just go wherever you feel like. YOLO.

Georgetown will likely get you some sort of job in California, though no guarantees that that job will put you into your parent's tax bracket (which is what you would have to worry about if you were footing the bill).

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Drake014
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby Drake014 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:58 pm

xjustyoursmile wrote:I just got into Georgetown and I'm really excited!
The only thing is, my top priority is being able to come back to California after I graduate and get a job.
Will that be an issue?


Start making connections to CA law as quickly as possible, attend job fairs there looking for 1L and 2L summer positions, e-mail alumni in CA and request to speak with them on the phone and then ask them questions about how they made it to CA, keep in contact with those people , etc.

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xjustyoursmile
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby xjustyoursmile » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:54 am

Thanks for the advice you guys!

I have taken into account that UCLA may give me better connections in state but I kind of agree that "YOLO" Haha. My parents aren't rich, they just handle their money well and saved for years in order to support their kids' educations. But if they are willing to pay for GULC and I'm more attracted to being in DC for 3 years... It's good to not I should start making connections now though, thanks! I'll start conacting through people I already know and go through there. Honestly if UCLA takes me and offers more money I would have to think about it... I want to start with a good salary to make my parents investments pay off too.

I'm just glad to know that I can come back.

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wbrother
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby wbrother » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:54 pm

I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm hoping for USC/UCLA, since it looks like I missed the Cal train. I'm betting both of those would be better bets over GULC if the goals is CA PD?

hiima3L
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Re: Georgetown Law to California?

Postby hiima3L » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:59 pm

wbrother wrote:I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm hoping for USC/UCLA, since it looks like I missed the Cal train. I'm betting both of those would be better bets over GULC if the goals is CA PD?


CA PDs don't care about prestige. They care about how committed you are and how good you are at doing it. Also, I hope you know how incredibly competitive CA PD positions are nowadays. There are dozens of volunteer attorneys at every PD's office.




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