Is the scarcity of legal jobs fabricated? Forum

[IAFG]

When those of us at T14s see the healthy majority of our classmates still having good outcomes, this advice doesn't sound very... grounded in reality.

As an aside, there are a lot of reasons for GULC's FT LEGAL employment to be underwhelming.

I truly hope the best for you, and NU has done reasonable well at the V10 that I work at, but you have to define "good outcomes". If we assume that "good outcomes" from a T14 are big law positions or top notch clerkships that justify the debt then your response is the one that isn't grounded in reality. Less then 8% of law graduates hit the big law jackpot and in target markets like Chicago, NYC and California the cost of living isn't cheap. Therefore, to justify loans with compounding interest in huge markets one would have to consider the full time legal employment at the top of the pay scale.

I'm a 3L, my employment fate is sealed.

A national number of 8% isn't relevant to a discussion about the value of T14.

[rayiner]

I truly hope the best for you, and NU has done reasonable well at the V10 that I work at, but you have to define "good outcomes". If we assume that "good outcomes" from a T14 are big law positions or top notch clerkships that justify the debt then your response is the one that isn't grounded in reality.

To me, good outcomes = decent sized firm (NLJ 250 or boutique paying $120k+), JD/MBA going into a business job (median salary at Kellogg is around $115k), federal clerkship, or IBR-eligible PI/government. Around 70-75% of NU's class of 2011 ended up in one of these situations. I think C/O 2012 and C/O 2013 will be slightly better, but we'll see when the data comes out.

The problem, at the T14, isn't really a lot of people being employed in jobs that make it hard to pay off their loans. The problem is really the bi-modality of the employment. The people who don't have good jobs generally have no permanent job at all. They're not working at smaller firms that at least give them stability and some upwards salary possibilities, they're doing school-funded PI/government work or doc review.

[mi-chan17]

First -

Would it be better to attend a Top 14 on a partial scholarship or paying sticker, or attending a T30 with close to or even a full-ride?

I know GW offers full-rides to applicants admitted through a binding early decision program.

GW's binding early decision scholarship isn't a full-ride. It's full tuition, which means you're on your own for cost of living (which is heinously high here). So not that it's nothing - It saves you around $120,000 off GW's cost - but it's not everything, either.

Second -

That is very discouraging to hear. I am starting to second guess going to Law School. I would love to do a clerkship for experience but If you are saying that if I go to a school outside the T14 but within the T30, essentially, I am SOL for a clerkship.

A federal clerkship is unlikely anywhere. That said, it drops down very rapidly from Y/S (25%), to H/Chicago (15%), to the rest of the T13 (10%) , to the rest of the T30 (5%), to the rest of the T50 (2-3%).

I'm a GW 3L that's clerking next year, and I knew a few others who are as well. I highly doubt more than 6% or so of our class will go into federal clerkships (though if we pull in state clerkship numbers too that number will increase into the low double-digits, I suspect, based on anecdotal evidence), but it's not straight numbers-based. Top 15% or so can get the interviews, and then it's all about what else is on your resume and how well you interview. Also bear in mind that those same students are the most likely to already have firm jobs waiting for them, so many of them don't even bother to apply.

[ndirish2010]

LOL at this thread. OP should meet the search function. /thread.

[ksllaw]

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/the-aba- ... years-ago/
The ABA Started ‘Warning’ People About Going to Law School Years Ago

OP, I saw this a while back from ATL that might be of interest for you to check out (haven't read through it all myself yet).

[HuttBL]

The scarcity of available legal jobs is not fabricated. Over the past few years, the under- or unemployment percentages for recent law school graduates have been rising. For 2011 UGA Law Grads (a T-40 school), 61% were employed in full-time, JD required positions nine months post-graduation. [http://www.law.uga.edu/placement-statistics]. For the class of 2012, I'm expecting that to be quite lower (this includes people in the top half of their class!). Advice? Practicing law really isn't worth the investment, I don't think - I've seen offers rescinded at good firms and the starting pay decrease. Why go to law school at all if you'll be making $35,000/year starting out as an associate? Its insane - we could be more successful climbing the corporate ranks at a local Chick Fil A. In a nutshell, think long and hard about law school/a legal career UNLESS your dad is a managing partner somewhere or you know you'll be graduating in the top 5% of your class.

[JO 14]

Of the cohorts I know (at median or slightly below) all received multiple offers, often at mid-law (I define as +$100k). However, those who targeted DC (and Atlanta) came up empty. Of the small handful of people I know across town not attending a T14 (but with good grades) did not fare well at OCI ― however, I understand the hiring process is still in progress.