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A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
guinness1547
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Postby guinness1547 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:36 am

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Last edited by guinness1547 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:17 am

The ONLY reason that law students "suck" is that every law student is in non-stop competition with every other law student for everything that they want. For example, you want an A+ in your 1L Torts class. However, your professor is allowed to give out exactly 1 A+ (it's literally written in the academic regulations that he can only give 1), and there are 89 people in the class all aiming for that 1 grade. You can also imagine that, instead of A's in a class it could be "editor positions on Law Review" or "SA positions with Cravath" and the end result is the same: you have to beat out dozens of other law students to get that spot.

This leads to very negative behavior.

True story:
Girl A is sick, and stays home instead of going to Property class one day. She's normally attentive in class, answers correctly when cold-called, clearly does all the reading, has never missed a class before. The next day, in Property, Girl A asks Girl B for the notes. Girl B says "Sure, no problem!" and opens up One-Note along with Gmail. From my vantage point, the seat directly behind Girl B, I watch her copy a whole days worth of notes into Gmail. She then contemplates the notes and decides to delete whole paragraphs before hitting send. I say something along the lines of "What the hell?" to Girl B and receive the reply "What? She can't be expecting to get ALL the notes, can she? If she wanted all the notes, she should have come to class."

This is why law students suck.

071816
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby 071816 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:21 am

Expect to be surrounded by a bunch of neurotic jerkoffs who over-think everything and think they're smarter than they are.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:29 am

I don't think all law students suck, but those that do usually suck because they act self-important and uber-competitive. I've met a lot of law school students who are genuinely nice and not competitive at all - they share outlines and forward emails with tips from 2Ls, lend books when needed, explain concepts, etc etc.

But I've also met people who take outlines from others and then stay quiet about their own, who talk shit about other students behind their backs, and who use people to get information. Law school is just like anything else - there are people you can trust, and people you can't. I think the generalization that all law students are cutthroat tends to be pretty overblown. More often, a student will be irritating because they say dumb or offensive things in class (another human-nature sort of thing).

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Davidbentley
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby Davidbentley » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:06 am

Acute limited excellence.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:48 am

Another thing to keep in mind:
You are on a website that self-selects only the most neurotic, antisocial members of law school. While we have some good advice, we are, in general, not the social masterminds.

Also, it very much depends on the school. My school is pretty civil and people are friendly (not all friends, but friendly.) I'd trust any of my classmates to look after my stuff in the lobby when I go and get water or my lunch or whatever. I also trust them not to rip pages out of books and stupid shit like that.

Are they all nice people? No. But we have a culture of civility here, and that helps cut down on the d-bagging. Your school may be different. If you can't stand that sort of behavior, find a different school.

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JCFindley
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby JCFindley » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:43 am

I have not met a single person in LS that sucks. Not one. The professors are all great. The students are all cool and get along.

As Scotusnerd said above, there are certainly some neurotic episodes going on here but I haven't seen anything in school at all that is like TLS.

09042014
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:30 am

JCFindley wrote:I have not met a single person in LS that sucks. Not one. The professors are all great. The students are all cool and get along.

As Scotusnerd said above, there are certainly some neurotic episodes going on here but I haven't seen anything in school at all that is like TLS.


Either you accidentally enrolled in an MBA program or you just suck so much you can't tell.

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JCFindley
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby JCFindley » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:04 am

Desert Fox wrote:
JCFindley wrote:I have not met a single person in LS that sucks. Not one. The professors are all great. The students are all cool and get along.

As Scotusnerd said above, there are certainly some neurotic episodes going on here but I haven't seen anything in school at all that is like TLS.


Either you accidentally enrolled in an MBA program or you just suck so much you can't tell.


It's probably just early on and I haven't noticed yet. That and aside from my occasional rant threads on here, I really don't let what anyone else does bother me IRL. (Rant threads do not actually reflect any actual level of true annoyance for me.)

That, or I could be such a giant douche that anything anyone else does pails in comparison.

Take your pick.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby Ruxin1 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:13 am

JCFindley wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JCFindley wrote:I have not met a single person in LS that sucks. Not one. The professors are all great. The students are all cool and get along.

As Scotusnerd said above, there are certainly some neurotic episodes going on here but I haven't seen anything in school at all that is like TLS.


Either you accidentally enrolled in an MBA program or you just suck so much you can't tell.


It's probably just early on and I haven't noticed yet. That and aside from my occasional rant threads on here, I really don't let what anyone else does bother me IRL. (Rant threads do not actually reflect any actual level of true annoyance for me.)

That, or I could be such a giant douche that anything anyone else does pails in comparison.

Take your pick.


boomers tend to lack self awareness

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Mike12188
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby Mike12188 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:17 am

JCFindley wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JCFindley wrote:I have not met a single person in LS that sucks. Not one. The professors are all great. The students are all cool and get along.

As Scotusnerd said above, there are certainly some neurotic episodes going on here but I haven't seen anything in school at all that is like TLS.


Either you accidentally enrolled in an MBA program or you just suck so much you can't tell.


It's probably just early on and I haven't noticed yet. That and aside from my occasional rant threads on here, I really don't let what anyone else does bother me IRL. (Rant threads do not actually reflect any actual level of true annoyance for me.)

That, or I could be such a giant douche that anything anyone else does pails in comparison.

Take your pick.


Id like to believe that a lower tier state law school has a much lower ratio of aspies:normal people compared to say a t14.

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traehekat
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby traehekat » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:10 am

chimp wrote:Expect to be surrounded by a bunch of neurotic jerkoffs who over-think everything and think they're smarter than they are.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:19 am

Not all law schools are filled with neurotic jerkoffs. I had about 10 buddies go to law school and have been fortunate enough to visit most of them. Seems like the higher the school is ranked, the more competitive the students are. Going to a local city school is a completely different experience than going to GULC. Makes sense. If everyone is going to end up in local government or a local shop, why be cutthroat? Also top schools tend to attract cutthroat people. Lots of potential reasons why.

Gorki
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby Gorki » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:14 pm

Almost every Law student I know came from UG with top grades, some "special" work/intern experience, and were likely the smartest people in their groups of friends ... Imagine taking 65-70 of these egos and tossing them in the room with a professor whose job it is to try to show them that not everything has an easy answer.

By the time it finally settles in that 50% of the class is getting below median, it gets even worse b/c people keep up their cocky facade whilst slowly becoming Captain Ahab chasing the whale.


But despite all of this, I have never associated with the type of people who would delete entire sections of their notes before handing them over. My friends would miss and they would get my notes, I would miss and get their notes. When it was all said and done it made no difference in either of our grades. TBH, sabotaging 1 day of notes in and believing it will have any practical effect on someone's final grade is just another reason law students suck.

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mattviphky
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby mattviphky » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:18 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:Another thing to keep in mind:
You are on a website that self-selects only the most neurotic, antisocial members of law school. While we have some good advice, we are, in general, not the social masterminds.

Also, it very much depends on the school. My school is pretty civil and people are friendly (not all friends, but friendly.) I'd trust any of my classmates to look after my stuff in the lobby when I go and get water or my lunch or whatever. I also trust them not to rip pages out of books and stupid shit like that.

Are they all nice people? No. But we have a culture of civility here, and that helps cut down on the d-bagging. Your school may be different. If you can't stand that sort of behavior, find a different school.


+1

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ndirish2010
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:10 pm

People at ND generally don't suck.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:21 pm

JCFindley wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JCFindley wrote:I have not met a single person in LS that sucks. Not one. The professors are all great. The students are all cool and get along.

As Scotusnerd said above, there are certainly some neurotic episodes going on here but I haven't seen anything in school at all that is like TLS.


Either you accidentally enrolled in an MBA program or you just suck so much you can't tell.


It's probably just early on and I haven't noticed yet. That and aside from my occasional rant threads on here, I really don't let what anyone else does bother me IRL. (Rant threads do not actually reflect any actual level of true annoyance for me.)

That, or I could be such a giant douche that anything anyone else does pails in comparison.

Take your pick.


i'd say it's the latter

ctmx
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby ctmx » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:46 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:-
True story:
Girl A is sick, and stays home instead of going to Property class one day. She's normally attentive in class, answers correctly when cold-called, clearly does all the reading, has never missed a class before. The next day, in Property, Girl A asks Girl B for the notes. Girl B says "Sure, no problem!" and opens up One-Note along with Gmail. From my vantage point, the seat directly behind Girl B, I watch her copy a whole days worth of notes into Gmail. She then contemplates the notes and decides to delete whole paragraphs before hitting send. I say something along the lines of "What the hell?" to Girl B and receive the reply "What? She can't be expecting to get ALL the notes, can she? If she wanted all the notes, she should have come to class."

This is why law students suck.


daaammnn

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:57 pm

Gorki wrote:But despite all of this, I have never associated with the type of people who would delete entire sections of their notes before handing them over. My friends would miss and they would get my notes, I would miss and get their notes. When it was all said and done it made no difference in either of our grades. TBH, sabotaging 1 day of notes in and believing it will have any practical effect on someone's final grade is just another reason law students suck.


I couldn't agree more. I always offer to share my notes with ANYONE who I noticed was not in class. I'll happily send my outlines to ANYONE who asks me. It's worked out for me so far (I'm a 2L now). I just hope others can learn that you can do well without being a total dick to your classmates.

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BEAST_mode
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby BEAST_mode » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:02 pm

The toxic combination of total self absorption and cripplingly absent self confidence.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:02 pm

Mike12188 wrote:
Id like to believe that a lower tier state law school has a much lower ratio of aspies:normal people compared to say a t14.


IDK, I think the (obnoxious) competitive spirit that has frequently been referenced in this thread is often even worse at lower tier schools. The guy who came off to me as probably tops on the obnoxious competitive spectrum went to a TTTT. He actually helped me out with preparing to apply to law school and was a buddy of mine, so I'm not saying he was a bad guy at all, but he had this really edgy competitiveness that I suspect was pretty common at the school he went to. At T14 level schools I think there is a lot of unhealthy competitiveness and pride going on, but I'd bet that in many cases it is more subtle than at TTTT schools. But to the extent you equate 'aspies' to highly-intelligent but socially awkward ppl then yeah, T14 will have a lot more of those. But I don't think that is what makes a law student suck as much as the pride and competitiveness aspect.

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stillwater
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby stillwater » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:16 pm

Law students are TTTT.

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Borg
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby Borg » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:31 pm

I think the problem is less that there are a lot of gunners, and more that the average student is not an independent thinker. I encounter a lot of mouth breather drones who aren't really capable of thinking creatively, appreciating humor, or thinking of things to do other than take orders at a factory law firm. My experience has been that it's an uninspiring environment more than a cutthroat one.

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cahwc12
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby cahwc12 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:08 am

chimp wrote:Expect to be surrounded by a bunch of neurotic jerkoffs who over-think everything and think they're smarter than they are.


This was my experience in majoring in political science. Most of the class was there to educate rather than to learn. When I started taking more hard science classes, not only did I find that attitude was lacking, but the overall quality of student was much more studious and much more intelligent.

I'm interested to see what proportion of student-types I'll find in law school next fall, but I anticipate plenty of both.

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cinephile
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Re: Why do law students suck?

Postby cinephile » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:12 am

cahwc12 wrote:
chimp wrote:Expect to be surrounded by a bunch of neurotic jerkoffs who over-think everything and think they're smarter than they are.


This was my experience in majoring in political science. Most of the class was there to educate rather than to learn. When I started taking more hard science classes, not only did I find that attitude was lacking, but the overall quality of student was much more studious and much more intelligent.

I'm interested to see what proportion of student-types I'll find in law school next fall, but I anticipate plenty of both.


There are plenty of career-changers in my school. They tend to be cool.




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