How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

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fatduck
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby fatduck » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:18 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:
IAFG wrote:
RickyDnwhyc wrote:Not entirely. My point is that only a small % will even achieve BigLaw.

You seemed to be implying that everyone seeking a low paying job / public interest work is doing it because that's what they wanted from the start. Some are doing it because they have no other choice...

Look at all the lawyers doing painstaking doc review and temp work for 20-30$/hr. It wasn't a choice... What % of law school grads do you really think are in it for personal fulfillment alone?

Only a small % achieve biglaw in general. But this isn't Generic-Law-Schools.com, is it?

I also never implied that EVERYONE in PI sought PI. I merely point out that some percentage of those in those jobs, wanted them. And the debt is irrelevant to them, if they chose schools wisely. Your inability to grasp nuance it totally consistent with the lawscamblogger anti-law school crusade culture, though.


There you go! Now THAT is a meaningless statement. Sure, some people seek it out. But if we were those people, we wouldn't be here complaining about it and starting threads like this now would we?

well yea, i wouldn't expect someone looking at PI to start a thread asking "how time-consuming is a law firm job?"

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BunkMoreland
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby BunkMoreland » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:04 pm

solotee wrote:If you're working big law in a southern market, for example, attorneys I worked with are usually in the office 12 hours a day, from 8 am until 8 pm, or 7 am to 7 pm, then go home to their families, usually doing 1 or 2 more hours of work until they bail out for the night. It really is a tough schedule day, after day, after day. It wears on you.


This definitely isn't true for all big southern firms. Attorneys at my office regularly work 9-6, with occasional bouts of 9-9 or 10 for deal closings or lit deadlines. For six figures in the south, you can't really complain.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:41 pm

BunkMoreland wrote:
solotee wrote:If you're working big law in a southern market, for example, attorneys I worked with are usually in the office 12 hours a day, from 8 am until 8 pm, or 7 am to 7 pm, then go home to their families, usually doing 1 or 2 more hours of work until they bail out for the night. It really is a tough schedule day, after day, after day. It wears on you.


This definitely isn't true for all big southern firms. Attorneys at my office regularly work 9-6, with occasional bouts of 9-9 or 10 for deal closings or lit deadlines. For six figures in the south, you can't really complain.


People on here talk about big law and what they almost always mean is NYC/LA/SF/Chicago/Boston big law. These jobs in other markets are still taxing, but the pace of life overall is slower and similarly the big law pace is a lot but talking to attorneys who have been in both environments they say there is no comparison.

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:48 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
BunkMoreland wrote:
solotee wrote:If you're working big law in a southern market, for example, attorneys I worked with are usually in the office 12 hours a day, from 8 am until 8 pm, or 7 am to 7 pm, then go home to their families, usually doing 1 or 2 more hours of work until they bail out for the night. It really is a tough schedule day, after day, after day. It wears on you.


This definitely isn't true for all big southern firms. Attorneys at my office regularly work 9-6, with occasional bouts of 9-9 or 10 for deal closings or lit deadlines. For six figures in the south, you can't really complain.


People on here talk about big law and what they almost always mean is NYC/LA/SF/Chicago/Boston big law. These jobs in other markets are still taxing, but the pace of life overall is slower and similarly the big law pace is a lot but talking to attorneys who have been in both environments they say there is no comparison.


Does this mean that working big city big law is a monumentously terrible decision?

What are the benefits? You get to live in a nice city? And have no free time...


It's gotta be the prestige more than anything. "Oh, I work on Wall St"..........


Even if NYC / LA etc. firms pay higher salaries, this is EASILY offset by the reduced COL in the south, and then some.

Gorki
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby Gorki » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:02 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
BunkMoreland wrote:
solotee wrote:If you're working big law in a southern market, for example, attorneys I worked with are usually in the office 12 hours a day, from 8 am until 8 pm, or 7 am to 7 pm, then go home to their families, usually doing 1 or 2 more hours of work until they bail out for the night. It really is a tough schedule day, after day, after day. It wears on you.


This definitely isn't true for all big southern firms. Attorneys at my office regularly work 9-6, with occasional bouts of 9-9 or 10 for deal closings or lit deadlines. For six figures in the south, you can't really complain.


People on here talk about big law and what they almost always mean is NYC/LA/SF/Chicago/Boston big law. These jobs in other markets are still taxing, but the pace of life overall is slower and similarly the big law pace is a lot but talking to attorneys who have been in both environments they say there is no comparison.


Does this mean that working big city big law is a monumentously terrible decision?

What are the benefits? You get to live in a nice city? And have no free time...


It's gotta be the prestige more than anything. "Oh, I work on Wall St"..........


Even if NYC / LA etc. firms pay higher salaries, this is EASILY offset by the reduced COL in the south, and then some.


This comes down to mobility in 5+ years down the road. If you have been born and bred in the market you take a job in, this argument will never be compelling to you.

However, assume a law student goes to an out of state t-14, gets offer at a big law firm in the South or Midwest, not a huge fan of area, but its a job so they take the offer. Five years later, they are not partner track and get the polite 'gtfo' talk by management. Now, this person is stuck in the unpleasant situation of having market experience in a place they do not want to live. It is possible for them to lateral to another major area, but this gets very tough as these markets all have their respective regional BigLaw firms they draw from.

On the other hand, the legal profession places a lot of weight on both those firms that are considered prestigious, and in what are considered prestigious areas (NYC/Chi/LA). After five years at one of these firms, the person will probably have networked in some sort (deals, disputes, alumni networks) with the regional biglaws in the market they want to parachute into. This + prestige of firm's name -> Attractive to the other market.

However, in the realities of ITE, if you have no big law offer in the major market areas, and you get one in the South or Midwest, take it for god's sake. Life happens, you just take the best route you can.

Real Madrid
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby Real Madrid » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:07 pm

tothePAIN wrote:@Miller 32. You're math is horrendous.

"(2) On a 45k salary, working 60 hours per week comes out to a little north of $30 per hour. Much more than your average high school grad, and more than the majority of recent college grads as well."

60 hours per week for 50 weeks is 3,000 hours.

45,000 / 3,000 = $15/hr. Not $30. You're right, people are going to attack that figure. For good reason.

40 hours per week = 2,000 hours for the year

45,000 / 2,000 = $22.5/hr


As is your grammar.

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:33 pm

This comes down to mobility in 5+ years down the road. If you have been born and bred in the market you take a job in, this argument will never be compelling to you.

However, assume a law student goes to an out of state t-14, gets offer at a big law firm in the South or Midwest, not a huge fan of area, but its a job so they take the offer. Five years later, they are not partner track and get the polite 'gtfo' talk by management. Now, this person is stuck in the unpleasant situation of having market experience in a place they do not want to live. It is possible for them to lateral to another major area, but this gets very tough as these markets all have their respective regional BigLaw firms they draw from.

On the other hand, the legal profession places a lot of weight on both those firms that are considered prestigious, and in what are considered prestigious areas (NYC/Chi/LA). After five years at one of these firms, the person will probably have networked in some sort (deals, disputes, alumni networks) with the regional biglaws in the market they want to parachute into. This + prestige of firm's name -> Attractive to the other market.

However, in the realities of ITE, if you have no big law offer in the major market areas, and you get one in the South or Midwest, take it for god's sake. Life happens, you just take the best route you can.
So you're saying that all the most prestigious firms are in the primary markets? NYC/Chicago/LA etc...?

Aren't there some great firms outside of the major cities that still offer this sort of national mobility? Best of both worlds?

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flem
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby flem » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:48 pm

RickyDnwhyc wrote:So you're saying that all the most prestigious firms are in the primary markets? NYC/Chicago/LA etc...?

Aren't there some great firms outside of the major cities that still offer this sort of national mobility? Best of both worlds?


lol

rad lulz
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:09 pm

I'm gonna just drop out and become an HVAC technician.

Gorki
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Re: How time-consuming is being a lawyer?

Postby Gorki » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:21 pm

rad lulz wrote:I'm gonna just drop out and become an HVAC technician.


Make sure you go bigHVAC so you can lateral appropriately.




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