1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

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thomas7669
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1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby thomas7669 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:19 am

Im working on a budget so I am utterly overwhelmed when I try to determine which supplements to buy. I am taking Torts, Civ Pro and Contracts this semester.(Also legal writing).

My main goal is doing as well as possible but at the same time I dont want to buy every supplement in existence. FTR at orientation the professors all said not to use supplements and that they were not needed. This conflicts with virtually every guide on this site.

Any help and recommendation would be appreciated.

071816
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby 071816 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:21 am

thomas7669 wrote:Im working on a budget so I am utterly overwhelmed when I try to determine which supplements to buy. I am taking Torts, Civ Pro and Contracts this semester.(Also legal writing).

My main goal is doing as well as possible but at the same time I dont want to buy every supplement in existence. FTR at orientation the professors all said not to use supplements and that they were not needed. This conflicts with virtually every guide on this site.

Any help and recommendation would be appreciated.

Probably Glannon for civ pro, Chirelstein for Ks, and a cheap version of the E&E for torts.

Eta: depending on your profs, you may not need supplements for every class. You might want to hold off.

thomas7669
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby thomas7669 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:30 am

Thanks and in that response your brought up another question I had.

Do I have to buy the latest version of the supps? Or can I buy the older versions going for like 4 dollars on Amazon?

071816
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby 071816 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:32 am

thomas7669 wrote:Thanks and in that response your brought up another question I had.

Do I have to buy the latest version of the supps? Or can I buy the older versions going for like 4 dollars on Amazon?

For civ pro I'd buy the new one. For torts and Ks older versions are probably okay.

bdubs
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby bdubs » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:35 am

Most supplements will be useless to you at the beginning of the semester. Only the ones that are keyed to your book and summarize the cases would help, but they are usually not super relevant for most classes. Find out from upperclassmen who had your prof what kind of supplements they found helpful. Honestly I only picked up supplements during finals and only for a subset of my classes.

Also, old editions are fine for most subjects (torts, property, crim, contracts) but civ pro and con law can sometimes reference up to date materials (again depends on your prof.)

071816
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby 071816 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:37 am

bdubs wrote:Most supplements will be useless to you at the beginning of the semester. Only the ones that are keyed to your book and summarize the cases would help, but they are usually not super relevant for most classes. Find out from upperclassmen who had your prof what kind of supplements they found helpful. Honestly I only picked up supplements during finals and only for a subset of my classes.

Also, old editions are fine for most subjects (torts, property, crim, contracts) but civ pro and con law can sometimes reference up to date materials (again depends on your prof.)

I agree with this. I wouldn't even bother buying or looking at supplements yet. Some people don't even use them at all.

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lustre_mud
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby lustre_mud » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:37 am

chimp wrote:
bdubs wrote:Most supplements will be useless to you at the beginning of the semester. Only the ones that are keyed to your book and summarize the cases would help, but they are usually not super relevant for most classes. Find out from upperclassmen who had your prof what kind of supplements they found helpful. Honestly I only picked up supplements during finals and only for a subset of my classes.

Also, old editions are fine for most subjects (torts, property, crim, contracts) but civ pro and con law can sometimes reference up to date materials (again depends on your prof.)

I agree with this. I wouldn't even bother buying or looking at supplements yet. Some people don't even use them at all.


exactly. many of my supps went unused, mostly because of time constraints.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:44 am

Piggybacking on OP's question, does anyone use canned briefs (I think that's what I've seen them referred to as)? I plan on reading/briefing all my cases, but I didn't know if people recommended using pre-made briefs to help make sense of tough cases. In my UG Con Law class (lol) we had to brief cases and I found googling the briefs helped supplement my reading of it but I don't know if 1L cases are easy to find online.

071816
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby 071816 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:51 am

I used casebriefs.com and lawnix.com a lot. also, wikipedia can be helpful. These sites have most of the major 1L cases.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:54 am

chimp wrote:I used casebriefs.com and lawnix.com a lot. also, wikipedia can be helpful. These sites have most of the major 1L cases.


Great, thanks!

Is there anything else 0L's should be worried about obtaining going into 1L year? Or are the casebooks + occasional supplements all the materials that are needed?

071816
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby 071816 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:56 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:
chimp wrote:I used casebriefs.com and lawnix.com a lot. also, wikipedia can be helpful. These sites have most of the major 1L cases.


Great, thanks!

Is there anything else 0L's should be worried about obtaining going into 1L year? Or are the casebooks + occasional supplements all the materials that are needed?

That's all you'll need. You should ask profs what they recommend as far as supplements. Honestly, in some classes, I hardly looked at the case book and when I did I skimmed. This is cliche as fuck, but find what works for you.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:00 am

chimp wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
chimp wrote:I used casebriefs.com and lawnix.com a lot. also, wikipedia can be helpful. These sites have most of the major 1L cases.


Great, thanks!

Is there anything else 0L's should be worried about obtaining going into 1L year? Or are the casebooks + occasional supplements all the materials that are needed?

That's all you'll need. You should ask profs what they recommend as far as supplements. Honestly, in some classes, I hardly looked at the case book and when I did I skimmed. This is cliche as fuck, but find what works for you.


Haha cliche or not, that makes sense. As a paranoid 0L, however, the whole "wait and see" mentality--while logical--is tough to come to terms with. I just want the secret formula to guaranteed success :lol:

thomas7669
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby thomas7669 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:03 am

What about hornbooks? Are they recommended?

bdubs
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby bdubs » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:06 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:Is there anything else 0L's should be worried about obtaining going into 1L year? Or are the casebooks + occasional supplements all the materials that are needed?


Recognize early on that preparing for class and preparing for the exam will not always be the same. The best advice I got was to just read all of the assigned cases first semester, like the actual case in the text book and not a canned brief. I think 90% of people find that they don't even need to brief cases after the first month or two, once you figure out how to read a case you kind of get the takeaways without putting a ton of work into the process.


thomas7669 wrote:What about hornbooks? Are they recommended?


Did you read any of the advice above? It applies to all supplements. Just chill out for a second and try to make a few 2L and 3L friends to help you out.

thomas7669
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby thomas7669 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:09 am

bdubs wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Is there anything else 0L's should be worried about obtaining going into 1L year? Or are the casebooks + occasional supplements all the materials that are needed?


Recognize early on that preparing for class and preparing for the exam will not always be the same. The best advice I got was to just read all of the assigned cases first semester, like the actual case in the text book and not a canned brief. I think 90% of people find that they don't even need to brief cases after the first month or two, once you figure out how to read a case you kind of get the takeaways without putting a ton of work into the process.


This was my plan until I read the guide on the main website. He made it seem like if you dont use supplements you will miss out on a lot of stuff that is hidden in the casebook.

I read the advice, I was asking for later on in the semester. The better idea I get for what I need the less time I can waste later on searching for the right supplement, especially when I am on a budget.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:21 am

bdubs wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Is there anything else 0L's should be worried about obtaining going into 1L year? Or are the casebooks + occasional supplements all the materials that are needed?


Recognize early on that preparing for class and preparing for the exam will not always be the same. The best advice I got was to just read all of the assigned cases first semester, like the actual case in the text book and not a canned brief. I think 90% of people find that they don't even need to brief cases after the first month or two, once you figure out how to read a case you kind of get the takeaways without putting a ton of work into the process.


thomas7669 wrote:What about hornbooks? Are they recommended?


Did you read any of the advice above? It applies to all supplements. Just chill out for a second and try to make a few 2L and 3L friends to help you out.


I appreciate the tip! It's tough because so many different people/books tell you to do so many things. I obviously want to err on the side of caution (reading more than less) but I don't want to do anything that is not productive to improving my final exam. Is it like UG in the sense that teachers/guides always tell to you to do something one way (i.e. come to every class, read every night, etc...) but most people don't find that necessary? So many guides tell you to do an insane amount of stuff (read every case twice, type a brief for every single case, review your briefs before class, etc...) and I just wonder if that is really what most students actually do or if most students tailor their approach.

ze2151
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby ze2151 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:22 am

throw them all away. there is no magic bullet.

bdubs
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby bdubs » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:32 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:I appreciate the tip! It's tough because so many different people/books tell you to do so many things. I obviously want to err on the side of caution (reading more than less) but I don't want to do anything that is not productive to improving my final exam. Is it like UG in the sense that teachers/guides always tell to you to do something one way (i.e. come to every class, read every night, etc...) but most people don't find that necessary? So many guides tell you to do an insane amount of stuff (read every case twice, type a brief for every single case, review your briefs before class, etc...) and I just wonder if that is really what most students actually do or if most students tailor their approach.



Those guides are intended to scare you into preparing more than you otherwise would. I don't think they all offer great advice, but if you realistically did everything that was recommended you would probably as prepared as you can be. Some of exam taking is going to come down to ability and you can't really train that into yourself. A lot more of exam taking will come down to being able to guess at what the professor wants. That can sort of be learned, but there is always an element of uncertainty there (even combining a lot of individual experiences and closely studying the prof can still leave you somewhat confused). Lots of profs also don't like to show their hand too much when it comes to grading because they rely on the dispersion to make the curve work in a less arbitrary way (they don't want everyone's exam to look and read the same way).

It's a somewhat frustrating process but the only real parts of it you can control are being familiar with the subject matter and as familiar as possible with the professor.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:52 am

bdubs wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:I appreciate the tip! It's tough because so many different people/books tell you to do so many things. I obviously want to err on the side of caution (reading more than less) but I don't want to do anything that is not productive to improving my final exam. Is it like UG in the sense that teachers/guides always tell to you to do something one way (i.e. come to every class, read every night, etc...) but most people don't find that necessary? So many guides tell you to do an insane amount of stuff (read every case twice, type a brief for every single case, review your briefs before class, etc...) and I just wonder if that is really what most students actually do or if most students tailor their approach.



Those guides are intended to scare you into preparing more than you otherwise would. I don't think they all offer great advice, but if you realistically did everything that was recommended you would probably as prepared as you can be. Some of exam taking is going to come down to ability and you can't really train that into yourself. A lot more of exam taking will come down to being able to guess at what the professor wants. That can sort of be learned, but there is always an element of uncertainty there (even combining a lot of individual experiences and closely studying the prof can still leave you somewhat confused). Lots of profs also don't like to show their hand too much when it comes to grading because they rely on the dispersion to make the curve work in a less arbitrary way (they don't want everyone's exam to look and read the same way).

It's a somewhat frustrating process but the only real parts of it you can control are being familiar with the subject matter and as familiar as possible with the professor.


Good to know, thanks! Is it smart to try to get to know the professor outside of class like during office hours? Or is that too gunner-ish/a waste of time?

It's becoming more and more apparent that the best advice there is is to be found on TLS rather than in the prep books.

bdubs
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby bdubs » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:12 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:Good to know, thanks! Is it smart to try to get to know the professor outside of class like during office hours? Or is that too gunner-ish/a waste of time?

It's becoming more and more apparent that the best advice there is is to be found on TLS rather than in the prep books.


Most profs don't talk exam topics in office hours. They may tell you if you're focusing on an area that is totally irrelevant to the exam, but they're usually not going to give you any special insight that would help you do better.

Your time is better spent talking to as many 2Ls and 3Ls who had the professor as you can. The more you can find out about what people think was helpful/unhelpful the better off you are at trying to triangulate what the prof was actually looking for. Be careful not to rely exclusively on the TA, many other people will be doing that so it's not likely to be the key to a standout exam.

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ilovesf
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby ilovesf » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:28 am

you get a lot of supps from your library - if you are on a budget, definitely try that. Also ask 2Ls on here or on facebook. I sold mine for like $10. I probably could have made more, but I'm lazy and it was easier to just sell them quickly.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:42 am

bdubs wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Good to know, thanks! Is it smart to try to get to know the professor outside of class like during office hours? Or is that too gunner-ish/a waste of time?

It's becoming more and more apparent that the best advice there is is to be found on TLS rather than in the prep books.


Most profs don't talk exam topics in office hours. They may tell you if you're focusing on an area that is totally irrelevant to the exam, but they're usually not going to give you any special insight that would help you do better.

Your time is better spent talking to as many 2Ls and 3Ls who had the professor as you can. The more you can find out about what people think was helpful/unhelpful the better off you are at trying to triangulate what the prof was actually looking for. Be careful not to rely exclusively on the TA, many other people will be doing that so it's not likely to be the key to a standout exam.


While I agree that it's important to talk to 2Ls and 3Ls for info about the professor (and to look at the format of past exams very early on in the semester), I think office hours can be very helpful. It 1) forces you to be thinking about the topics discussed enough to come up with intelligent questions, 2) it's a great way to clear up confusion about stuff that may take you much longer to figure out yourself (and it's way better to just go straight to the source than try to have a classmate explain it to you), and 3) it's good to have professors who remember you--they can be good resources to have later on in law school--most especially if you're interested in applying to judicial clerkships.

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eandy
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby eandy » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:54 am

I think the Freer supplement for civ pro is far superior to the others.

Also, the expanded case summaries on Lexis are really helpful. The little case briefs are sometimes good but tend to leave important things out. Look for "case in brief" on the left. There isn't one for every case, but they're usually pretty money when available.

I prefer to read the case syllabus a lot of times, especially in con law (if you have that 1L). The Court writes them themselves so you know what you're reading is an accurate summary and it uses their words so it sounds like you read.

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jrf12886
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby jrf12886 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:54 am

Do not listen to professors when they say not to use supps. I used Glannon for CivPro (Get Friedenthal for more depth), Dobbs for Torts, and Murray for Contracts.

Also, you don't necessarily have to buy them. Most schools will have them available int he library for ~3 hour checkout (sometimes you can check out overnight after a certain time). Ask a 2L about this.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: 1l, Overwhelmed with supplements.

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:20 pm

What about Black's Law Dictionary? I read in a prep book that all students should have one. Will Google suffice or is it worth investing in one?




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