looks: how much do they matter?

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JD Janitor
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looks: how much do they matter?

Postby JD Janitor » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Curious as to how looks influence hiring decisions.

Do attractive women perform better at OCI than other less than attractive women with similar class rank?

Do attractive men perform better at OCI than other less than attractive men with similar class rank?

I realize this may be mostly anecdotal but I would like to hear if any of you have noticed favortism shown towards the more aesthetically pleasing among us.

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emkay625
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby emkay625 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:24 pm

This is interesting to me.

I am also curious if the gender of the interviewer has an impact as well.

interalia504
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby interalia504 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:38 pm

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/11/03/g ... ore-money/

"[Professor Hamermesh's] advice if you fall short of pretty? Play up your strengths."

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piccolittle
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby piccolittle » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:47 pm

What about weight for women? I mean, not enormous or anything, but I'm paranoid that firms are going to pick the skinny girls.

abc12345675
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:49 pm

piccolittle wrote:What about weight for women? I mean, not enormous or anything, but I'm paranoid that firms are going to pick the skinny girls.


I guess that goes with this topic.

Look, most professionals are going to approach this strictly, well, professionally. They're not out at a bar on a Friday night picking who they like. They're picking who they think will help make the firm money in the future.

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fanmingrui
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby fanmingrui » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:50 pm

Maybe there's more to life than being really, really, ridiculously good looking.

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JD Janitor
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby JD Janitor » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:52 pm

Just from my gut, I believe looks must play a part even if subconsiously. Everyone instantly judges everyone whether they admit it or not.

I could easily imagine a situation where a girl is actually hurt by her good looks when the interviewer is a not soo attractive female. I don't envision this happening to a male though.

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spleenworship
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:54 pm

fanmingrui wrote:Maybe there's more to life than being really, really, ridiculously good looking.


No. No there isn't.

ajaxconstructions
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby ajaxconstructions » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:55 pm

I think it matters.

abc12345675
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:55 pm

JD Janitor wrote:Just from my gut, I believe looks must play a part even if subconsiously. Everyone instantly judges everyone whether they admit it or not.

I could easily imagine a situation where a girl is actually hurt by her good looks when the interviewer is a not soo attractive female. I don't envision this happening to a male though.


Yeah, could also be hurt for other reasons too: 1) The first impression may be that you are not "brainy", and 2) the interviewer could be distracted and not really listen to answers

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Lovely Ludwig Van
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby Lovely Ludwig Van » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:21 pm

This is relevant to my interests.

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JD Janitor
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby JD Janitor » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:27 pm

piccolittle wrote:What about weight for women? I mean, not enormous or anything, but I'm paranoid that firms are going to pick the skinny girls.


I was more focused on looks you cannot change such as facial beauty. In your case, just lose weight.

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homestyle28
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:32 pm

My sense from the networking events I've been to is that the same trends apply to firms as in law schools: decent looking female attorney's and mostly odd looking males.

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Kring345
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby Kring345 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:39 pm

Im EXTRAORDINARILY good looking, so I hope it has an effect! For all you ladies out there, Im basically a combination of Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, and George Clooney with a sprinkle of Jessica Biel.

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TurtlesAllTheWayDown
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby TurtlesAllTheWayDown » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:57 pm

JD Janitor wrote:
piccolittle wrote:What about weight for women? I mean, not enormous or anything, but I'm paranoid that firms are going to pick the skinny girls.


I was more focused on looks you cannot change such as facial beauty. In your case, just lose weight.


What do you mean "cannot change"? Just buy a newer, less ugly face at the rhinoplasty store. Maybe see if they can install a tact mechanism while they are digging around in there.

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JD Janitor
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby JD Janitor » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:32 pm

TurtlesAllTheWayDown wrote:
JD Janitor wrote:
piccolittle wrote:What about weight for women? I mean, not enormous or anything, but I'm paranoid that firms are going to pick the skinny girls.


I was more focused on looks you cannot change such as facial beauty. In your case, just lose weight.


What do you mean "cannot change"? Just buy a newer, less ugly face at the rhinoplasty store. Maybe see if they can install a tact mechanism while they are digging around in there.


You're soo witty. Did you strike out at OCI because of your weight issue or are you just a 0L who enjoys being a smartass and soliciting useless advice? If you're fat, do something about it or get over it.

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PaulKriske
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby PaulKriske » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:34 pm

JD Janitor wrote:If you're fat, do something about it or get over it.

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piccolittle
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby piccolittle » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:37 pm

ITT: ugly people hate on fat people?

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SaintsTheMetal
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby SaintsTheMetal » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:39 pm

I think this is pretty logical.. Put yourself in their shoes.. Are you going to be more comfortable talking to/interacting with the hot girl or the ugly girl? otoh I guess if you are very attractive, and the interviewer is hideous, and young, they might be a little bit intimidated to start off

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JD Janitor
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby JD Janitor » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:41 pm

piccolittle wrote:ITT: ugly people hate on fat people?


You're not adding to the conversation. Get your fat ass out of here.

Unless you want to share your experience.

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Grazzhoppa
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby Grazzhoppa » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:48 pm

Good thing I'm yoked and super facey. Just gonna skip haha school, take the bar exam, OCI at Harvard and land a bomb biglaw job as a first year partner.

I think looks matter but not too much if you are just below average-attractive. If you are astoundingly beautiful or have a face even your mother couldn't love it might be more of an issue. Also, everyone should be working out unless you cant due to a medical condition. Make yourself look as best as you possibly can right?

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El_Gallo
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby El_Gallo » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:48 pm

JD Janitor wrote:
piccolittle wrote:What about weight for women? I mean, not enormous or anything, but I'm paranoid that firms are going to pick the skinny girls.


I was more focused on looks you cannot change such as facial beauty. In your case, just lose weight.

Came to this thread expecting a rehash of an over-discussed topic.

Instead, I find that OP is a midly entertaining troll. This thread has potential. Continue on.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby Scotusnerd » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:49 pm

Wanna add another layer to this here. In the South, grooming is an important thing. It isn't so much important what you start with in terms of physical beauty, it's the attention you pay to your clothes, your hair and general hygiene that's important.

Also: Law professors are clearly not hired for their looks.

There’s no question better looking people make more than less good lucking people,” says Professor Hamermesh.


Apparently, lucking plays a role too, according to that article.

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JD Janitor
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby JD Janitor » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:00 pm

El_Gallo wrote:
JD Janitor wrote:
piccolittle wrote:What about weight for women? I mean, not enormous or anything, but I'm paranoid that firms are going to pick the skinny girls.


I was more focused on looks you cannot change such as facial beauty. In your case, just lose weight.

Came to this thread expecting a rehash of an over-discussed topic.

Instead, I find that OP is a midly entertaining troll. This thread has potential. Continue on.


Oh thank God! El_Gallo has spoken AND its a sweeping approval! Joy! Now I may carry on offending the lazy fat people of TLS.

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Colonel Angus
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Re: looks: how much do they matter?

Postby Colonel Angus » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
1. How do you perceive female appearance?
a. Must female interviewees wear skirt suits or are pant suits fine?
b. I do not generally wear makeup, and I understand I will have to for interviews - do you have a concept of how much? (I generally just use coverup and a tiny amount of other makeup - no eye makeup, and i wear glasses).

2. This thread addressed subjective views based on appearance. Do you think there's a different standard for women then for men? (specifically, is it more damaging to be an overweight female than an overweight male; will long hair that gets unrulier throughout the day be thought of as a killer, when men keep it short and don't have that issue).

3. Is there an advantage/disadvantage to a "friendly" demeanor, smiling and animated conversation, rather than a "professional" demeanor, more reserved and v. to the point. I'm not talking about extremes, just about your preference / trend in who you think gets hired within the spectrum of acceptable/professional.

4. What can a candidate with little impressive work experience and without impressive summer experience (reg. judicial internship or reg. public interest job) do to improve his/her impact in an interview? Focus on transferable skills? Reiterate interest in firm? Seem really nice? Seem really on-the-ball?

Sorry for the long questions. Thank you for answering them!


1. Not sure what this question is asking.
a. I think pant suits are probably fine from my perspective; others may disagree.
b. I am not the right person to ask this question...don't look like a clown I guess?

2. Again, not totally sure how to answer this - looking slovenly is problematic for men or women. If you have clothes that fit well, take care of your appearance (if you're worried about unruly hair, spring for a salon / straightening thing maybe?) you should be fine. Will prettier/skinnier/more fit people do better in the aggregate? yeah, probably. sorry. it's the way the world works.

3. I guess friendlier is better usually from my perspective, though "animated" scares me. I've had intense, robotic interviews in the past that turned me off. I've also had overenthusiastic people that turned me off. Mock interviews can help if you're not sure/confident about yourself.

4. I think seeming really on-the-ball is probably your best bet. Be informed about the firm, about the practice, about the interviewer if you can. Do your homework, be really prepared.

This is from the senior associate answers questions thread. HTH




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