Is there midlaw?

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Easy-E
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Is there midlaw?

Postby Easy-E » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:02 am

I've heard the term "Mid Law" thrown around sparingly, but in most discussions of legal jobs there seems to be somewhat of a dichotomy (did I use that right? Doubt it.) with the 120k+ Big Law jobs, and then that 35-45k range. Are there a range of legal jobs that fall into that 70-90k area? I don't hear much talk about it, so I'm thinking its either nonexistent or disappearing quickly. Are these jobs more common in certain regions (non-major cities)? Any information would be appreciated, thanks.

If this is a dumb question, please let me know in the most acerbic way possible :mrgreen:

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Is there midlaw?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:06 am

Don't think about jobs in terms of salary, as salary varies across the US. For example, in some markets, big law firms pay less than $100k - that doesn't affect the fact that they are big law.

Use firm size as a proxy.

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rayiner
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Re: Is there midlaw?

Postby rayiner » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:04 am

emarxnj wrote:I've heard the term "Mid Law" thrown around sparingly, but in most discussions of legal jobs there seems to be somewhat of a dichotomy (did I use that right? Doubt it.) with the 120k+ Big Law jobs, and then that 35-45k range. Are there a range of legal jobs that fall into that 70-90k area? I don't hear much talk about it, so I'm thinking its either nonexistent or disappearing quickly. Are these jobs more common in certain regions (non-major cities)? Any information would be appreciated, thanks.

If this is a dumb question, please let me know in the most acerbic way possible :mrgreen:


There is "mid law" in the sense of small firms (< 50 people) that do commercial or municipal litigation and pay $70-90k in major cities. There are actually a lot of these firms around major cities. However, they don't have much impact on the bi-modal nature of law firm salaries because they don't hire very many people. A firm of ~25 lawyers might need a couple of new people every year, and one of those will probably be an experienced lateral. A couple of dozen of these firms put together won't hire as many attorneys as Kirkland Chicago by itself.

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Easy-E
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Re: Is there midlaw?

Postby Easy-E » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:06 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Don't think about jobs in terms of salary, as salary varies across the US. For example, in some markets, big law firms pay less than $100k - that doesn't affect the fact that they are big law.

Use firm size as a proxy.



Makes sense, I guess I was thinking in the context of the closest city to me (NYC). 90k in NYC is practically much different than 90k in St. Louis or Cincinnati obviously.

So I guess if we are just talking about NYC, does that middle range exist, or is it predominately just the two extremes (45k aka you're probably fucked with COL vs. 100k plus). Sorry if I missed the point, it just seems like the attitude for New York is big law or bust, quite literally.

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Easy-E
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Re: Is there midlaw?

Postby Easy-E » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:08 am

rayiner wrote:
emarxnj wrote:I've heard the term "Mid Law" thrown around sparingly, but in most discussions of legal jobs there seems to be somewhat of a dichotomy (did I use that right? Doubt it.) with the 120k+ Big Law jobs, and then that 35-45k range. Are there a range of legal jobs that fall into that 70-90k area? I don't hear much talk about it, so I'm thinking its either nonexistent or disappearing quickly. Are these jobs more common in certain regions (non-major cities)? Any information would be appreciated, thanks.

If this is a dumb question, please let me know in the most acerbic way possible :mrgreen:


There is "mid law" in the sense of small firms (< 50 people) that do commercial or municipal litigation and pay $70-90k in major cities. There are actually a lot of these firms around major cities. However, they don't have much impact on the bi-modal nature of law firm salaries because they don't hire very many people. A firm of ~25 lawyers might need a couple of new people every year, and one of those will probably be an experienced lateral. A couple of dozen of these firms put together won't hire as many attorneys as Kirkland Chicago by itself.



Okay, so I was correct in saying that these jobs (or at least openings for these jobs) are sparse. Thanks for the response.

concurrent fork
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Re: Is there midlaw?

Postby concurrent fork » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:15 pm

Of course mid-range salary jobs exist. But it is TLS fantasy that lower pay = fewer hours.

utlaw2007
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Re: Is there midlaw?

Postby utlaw2007 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:54 pm

concurrent fork wrote:Of course mid-range salary jobs exist. But it is TLS fantasy that lower pay = fewer hours.


This is true. We actually have a few here in Texas. They have office sizes of about 80-100 attorneys here in Texas. They usually have one location, but there is one that has two. The pay from these firms is about 85k to 110k for first year associates. That was five years ago. I don't know what it is now.

The ones here in Texas seem to be just as competitive as the biglaw jobs here. They are just a tad bit less competitive than biglaw here. But that difference appears to be marginal. However, it seems that lateral transfers into these firms are much easier than biglaw if you have trial experience. I have observed a couple of lawyers that did this who weren't close to being eligible for biglaw firms upon graduation, and weren't eligible for midlaw firms either, make these lateral moves because of their trial experience.

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Easy-E
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Re: Is there midlaw?

Postby Easy-E » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:02 pm

utlaw2007 wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:Of course mid-range salary jobs exist. But it is TLS fantasy that lower pay = fewer hours.


This is true. We actually have a few here in Texas. They have office sizes of about 80-100 attorneys here in Texas. They usually have one location, but there is one that has two. The pay from these firms is about 85k to 110k for first year associates. That was five years ago. I don't know what it is now.

The ones here in Texas seem to be just as competitive as the biglaw jobs here. They are just a tad bit less competitive than biglaw here. But that difference appears to be marginal. However, it seems that lateral transfers into these firms are much easier than biglaw if you have trial experience. I have observed a couple of lawyers that did this who weren't close to being eligible for biglaw firms upon graduation, and weren't eligible for midlaw firms either, make these lateral moves because of their trial experience.


Hmm good to know, thanks for the post.




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