What is big law really like?

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Jimbo_Jones
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Jimbo_Jones » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:01 pm

scifiguy wrote:About the supposed yelling that goes on in biglaw.

Is this just from superiors correcting your work and otherwise trying to get you to perform better?

Or do you also get yelled at by co-workers who are on teh same level as you? And is the yelling ever over stuff that you didn't do wrong? Like do they yell for simple things like passing them the stapler and to hurry up and give them some file?

Just wanting to see more specifically what the yelling is over. :P

Worked as a busboy before and the waiters would yell at us on busy nights. The owner would yell at us if we were slow or made mistakes, etc. I can understand yelling - even though I dislike it - when there's a need to step up your performance. Kind of like sports and how coaches yell at players.

That wouldn't bother me actually. I'm on the sensitive side too. But not really all that sensitive to that type of yelling, b/c I'm used to it and understadn it.

But it would suck if people yelled just because there was like an all-pervasive environment of disrespect going on. Like a bunch of nasty people just being personally selfish and rude. If it's a kind of non-performance related rudeness, then that wuold definitely suck.


I DON"T KNOW WHAT WE"RE YELLING ABOUT!

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scifiguy
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby scifiguy » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:20 pm

Green Jeans wrote:
I hope you are right because I hear that the inability to create [some] rain is what outs a number of 3rd and 4th years.


No one in any firm is going to expect you to be generating business within your third or fourth year. What makes people wash out after a certain number of years is that the structure of most firms requires it, as a typical firm has X number of First-Year Associates, (0.8)X Second-Years, etc. Some people just have to go.

Whatever metric that decision is based on varies. If you have the ability to "create rain" as a third year you will be safe, but practically no third years will.

With regards to the original question of this thread, it's a bit useless to ask "what is big law like" because the experience differs widely based on practice area, city, and most importantly, the demeanor of the particular people you will be working with.



Could you guys elaborate.

I get that at some point you'll likely have to be a rainmaker in biglaw. And it sounds from everyone's posts that it's in the later stages - usually not before the 3rd year.

But you also say above that people in biglaw firms get cut annually and people who get cut prior to the 3rd year get cut for reasons other than not being a rainmaker.

Could you guys elaborate on what those "other" reasons are?

So, in other words, at the end of Year 1...Y2,....Y3, what are the criteria by which you are judged (if not by being a good rainmaker)? And, furthermore, why do firms have to cut people at the end of those years? Is it not a waste of time to hire someone from like NYU and then cut him or her after ONE year? Is that enough time to even train the person and give them a chance to succeed?

I see employees as an investment. You spend money recruiting them and training them...they learn and grow and become more skilled. So, why cut them after one or two...years?

The only other jobs I know that are like this seem to be sales, where there is a quota system sometimes. If you can't sell X number of products, then you get cut, because the employer needs to bring in Y revenue and they are looking for people who can be the one to do it for them.

But, in biglaw if you're not even in a position to be a rainmaker at Y1, Y2...etc., then why do you get released so early? Is it possible that tehse people might actually have been good rainmakers if given the time and chance?

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dingbat
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby dingbat » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:51 pm

scifiguy wrote:
Green Jeans wrote:
I hope you are right because I hear that the inability to create [some] rain is what outs a number of 3rd and 4th years.


No one in any firm is going to expect you to be generating business within your third or fourth year. What makes people wash out after a certain number of years is that the structure of most firms requires it, as a typical firm has X number of First-Year Associates, (0.8)X Second-Years, etc. Some people just have to go.

Whatever metric that decision is based on varies. If you have the ability to "create rain" as a third year you will be safe, but practically no third years will.

With regards to the original question of this thread, it's a bit useless to ask "what is big law like" because the experience differs widely based on practice area, city, and most importantly, the demeanor of the particular people you will be working with.



Could you guys elaborate.

I get that at some point you'll likely have to be a rainmaker in biglaw. And it sounds from everyone's posts that it's in the later stages - usually not before the 3rd year.

But you also say above that people in biglaw firms get cut annually and people who get cut prior to the 3rd year get cut for reasons other than not being a rainmaker.

Could you guys elaborate on what those "other" reasons are?

So, in other words, at the end of Year 1...Y2,....Y3, what are the criteria by which you are judged (if not by being a good rainmaker)? And, furthermore, why do firms have to cut people at the end of those years? Is it not a waste of time to hire someone from like NYU and then cut him or her after ONE year? Is that enough time to even train the person and give them a chance to succeed?

I see employees as an investment. You spend money recruiting them and training them...they learn and grow and become more skilled. So, why cut them after one or two...years?

The only other jobs I know that are like this seem to be sales, where there is a quota system sometimes. If you can't sell X number of products, then you get cut, because the employer needs to bring in Y revenue and they are looking for people who can be the one to do it for them.

But, in biglaw if you're not even in a position to be a rainmaker at Y1, Y2...etc., then why do you get released so early? Is it possible that tehse people might actually have been good rainmakers if given the time and chance?

This is an oversimplification. Law firms don't automatically fire X% of their associates every year. However, it can take a while before it's obvious that someone isn't capable. Whenever a partner determines someone's not up to it, they'll get counselled out. It also takes a while for an associate to realize the lifestyle isn't for him/her, upon which s/he will try to lateral out. While there are a handful of people who exit fairly quickly, for most people it's around year 3/4 that this occurs, which is why the vast majority exit at that point. Generally, if an associate makes it to year 5, they're probably capable of working mostly unsupervised at the level biglaw requires and are able and willing to handle the lifestyle. Thereafter, whether they make partner or not depends on a number of factors, but being able to bring in business is probably the biggest one. Some firms have an "up or out" system that associates who don't make partner are fired after a set number of years, but at many firms it's possible to remain an associate for quite a while after. However, if it's clear you're not gonna make partner, most people will lateral out - and the positions open to a 6/7/8 year associate are far better than what's available for a 3/4 year associate

(disclaimer: I do not work in biglaw)

Green Jeans
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Green Jeans » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:38 pm

It's an oversimplification like anything but it's correct - firm have less mid-levels than junior, less mid-level associates than senior associates, and less senior associates then partners.

Is it not a waste of time to hire someone from like NYU and then cut him or her after ONE year? Is that enough time to even train the person and give them a chance to succeed?


The business model of firms has traditionally relied on NOT training associates. That is, an associate is given an assignment in which he is expected to learn his own way and the cost of that training (in the form of inflated hours because it takes the associate so long the first time) is passed onto the client.

The only other jobs I know that are like this seem to be sales, where there is a quota system sometimes. If you can't sell X number of products, then you get cut, because the employer needs to bring in Y revenue and they are looking for people who can be the one to do it for them.


The analogy is more appropriate than you think. "Noble profession" aside, the private practice of law is simply the sale of legal services. That's it.

Could you guys elaborate on what those "other" reasons are?
So, in other words, at the end of Year 1...Y2,....Y3, what are the criteria by which you are judged (if not by being a good rainmaker)?


You will be evaluated on three general things:

1) Quality of Work

Your supervisors will notice if you write better briefs than your peers and finish things more quickly than your peers. Contrary to some misconceptions, biglaw is not "monkey work" that any first-year from a good school can do equally well. Associates have varied ability and superiors notice.

2) Interpersonal Skills

"Work" includes not just written work but intangibles. As in any profession, no one (including partners) is going to want to work with you if you are an asshole. Law is a high-stress profession, and one thing an office doesn't need is someone who is abrasive is his interactions, or clearly can't take the stress. (I've worked with a few people who let the stress get to them very easily, and when you work collaborately with them, their anxiety is contagious and its terrible).

You will be judged favorably if you have a good personal relationship with your superiors and working relationship with clients. For instance, something that was very positive for me was that a client spoke highly of me and mentioned to the partner that he thought I was much more senior. This was very positive during annual reviews because, hey, all we're doing here is selling legal services to clients.

3) Whether you Meet Your Expected Billable Hours

You have to understand that, although the billable hours requirement may appear merciless, if you are not meeting your hours that is a good proxy indicator that there are other problems with #1 and #2 above. If your hours are below other associates in your group/class that is an indication that a) your work is relatively bad and partners are preferring other associates to work on projects for them or b) you haven't actively sought out work or relationships with new partners (which, by the way, is a good proxy for whether you will proactively actively seek out clients when you are more senior).

It's really pretty simple - do good work, and be someone people like.

I get that at some point you'll likely have to be a rainmaker in biglaw. And it sounds from everyone's posts that it's in the later stages - usually not before the 3rd year.


To get terminology straight, "rainmaker" is slang for a partner who generates an enormous amount of business for both himself and other firm lawyers. There are basically no associate rainmakers who are not also scions of family-held conglomerates that direct all their legal business to the firm. There are very few rainmaker partners.

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Sheffield
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Sheffield » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:14 am

I hope you are right that making rain is not a prerequisite for rolling beyond year 3/4. As a previous 1L at a smaller BL firm, the summer went in a flash. I would not have known if someone had been pushed out as opposed to a self-selected transfer. I recently learned that a couple third years are no longer with the firm, however, the firm just hired a few new SAs. . .so they are not cutting back. Given student debt, it is obvious that no one self-selects to abandon a six-figure paycheck. The counter to my contention is that perhaps people are ousted for reasons outside of bringing in business. . . it is possible, but I am not convinced.

I also wonder, what level of new business is satisfactory? My firm has multi-million clients, but on the other hand they also represent local car dealerships, local pizza chain, etc.

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dingbat
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby dingbat » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:16 am

Sheffield wrote: Given student debt, it is obvious that no one self-selects to abandon a six-figure paycheck.

How about anyone who decides they'd rather be a slave to their debt than to their job? Money isn't everything and there's no point in having it if you don't have time to spend it.

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rayiner
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby rayiner » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:29 pm

Sheffield wrote:I recently learned that a couple third years are no longer with the firm, however, the firm just hired a few new SAs. . .so they are not cutting back. Given student debt, it is obvious that no one self-selects to abandon a six-figure paycheck.


Are there people who get stealthed? Yes. Does that account for all or most of the attrition? Based on my observations, no.

First, don't overestimate the debt situation. A lot of the attrition statistics we have right now (half gone in three years) are from boom times when there were lots of exit opportunities, big bonuses to pay off debt, and smaller debt to begin with at lower interest rates. Moreover, don't assume everyone paid sticker. Out of my friends, people who paid sticker are probably in the minority. A large number of people have some sort of scholarship, and a large number have parents paying all or part of their tuition.

Second, don't underestimate the exit opportunities. There are low six-figure jobs in compliance to be had, though exits get better as you move up. Moreover, people in more recent cohorts are eligible for IBR if they take a municipal/state/government job (and people in earlier cohorts didn't have that much debt to begin with). A city government job may not pay much, but IBR will make the debt situation irrelevant.

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scifiguy
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby scifiguy » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:50 am

Was wondering too if you have to be on call 24/7 in biglaw?

Is taht just one of the things that comes with teh job? Like being POTUS? Do you have to always have your cell on you and respond at any hour to work calls?

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rayiner
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby rayiner » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:15 am

scifiguy wrote:Was wondering too if you have to be on call 24/7 in biglaw?

Is taht just one of the things that comes with teh job? Like being POTUS? Do you have to always have your cell on you and respond at any hour to work calls?


Generally nobody expects responses during sleep hours unless you have notice. Otherwise, yes.

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scifiguy
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby scifiguy » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:10 am

rayiner wrote:
scifiguy wrote:Was wondering too if you have to be on call 24/7 in biglaw?

Is taht just one of the things that comes with teh job? Like being POTUS? Do you have to always have your cell on you and respond at any hour to work calls?


Generally nobody expects responses during sleep hours unless you have notice. Otherwise, yes.



That's good that at least you can sleep through the night. I think some types of MD's don't have that luxury.

But what about weekends? Do you biglaw folks work Sat./Sun.'s too and have to be on call on weekends too? Or do you just work like 15 hour weekdays Mon-Fri. to get all that work in before the weekend and then relax?

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Icculus
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Icculus » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:35 pm

scifiguy wrote:
rayiner wrote:
scifiguy wrote:Was wondering too if you have to be on call 24/7 in biglaw?

Is taht just one of the things that comes with teh job? Like being POTUS? Do you have to always have your cell on you and respond at any hour to work calls?


Generally nobody expects responses during sleep hours unless you have notice. Otherwise, yes.



That's good that at least you can sleep through the night. I think some types of MD's don't have that luxury.

But what about weekends? Do you biglaw folks work Sat./Sun.'s too and have to be on call on weekends too? Or do you just work like 15 hour weekdays Mon-Fri. to get all that work in before the weekend and then relax?


"24/7" not "24/5". All of my friends who work BigLaw tend to work on weekends, usually not every weekend, and it really depends on what they are working on, but generally you can expect that weekends are not off the table. Note: This is anecdotal evidence from reading this board and talking to friends who have been working in BigLaw 5-7 years. I also would say most of my friends tend to at least get Sunday to themselves most weeks but I have also talked to them after they've pulled a few allnighters in a row.

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scifiguy
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby scifiguy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:39 am

Icculus wrote:"24/7" not "24/5". All of my friends who work BigLaw tend to work on weekends, usually not every weekend, and it really depends on what they are working on, but generally you can expect that weekends are not off the table. Note: This is anecdotal evidence from reading this board and talking to friends who have been working in BigLaw 5-7 years. I also would say most of my friends tend to at least get Sunday to themselves most weeks but I have also talked to them after they've pulled a few allnighters in a row.


Interesting. Thanks very much guys for the input.

I guess as long as I had one day off per week most of the time, then that wouldn't be too bad and reasonable. On the other hand, if I had a job where I literally worked all seven days (like full days), then that would be torture. I don't know how people can recharge with no off days like that. Just hearing that actually makes me *feel* drained. :D

Although, I sitll wonder why a person couldn't just work faster and harder Mon - Fri.? I read often that biglaw requires 60-80 hour weeks. If a person works 15 hours a day Mon thru fri, then they would have worked 75 hours already. Then maybe work half a day Sat. and get the night off and have Sunday off too. Possible?

A 15 hour day still sounds rough though: 8AM to 11PM. :shock: Sort of like final exam time here at UG. Actually finals are worse. We do all nighters .....have done like 3 hour sleep days. Even non-finals times when I have papers due and other stuff I sometimes do days where I get 3 hours of sleep. I try to avoid it, but it's happened before.

I'm just trying to visualize what working 80 hours a week constantly year round would be like.

cslouisck
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby cslouisck » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:18 am

scifiguy wrote:Although, I sitll wonder why a person couldn't just work faster and harder Mon - Fri.? I read often that biglaw requires 60-80 hour weeks. If a person works 15 hours a day Mon thru fri, then they would have worked 75 hours already. Then maybe work half a day Sat. and get the night off and have Sunday off too. Possible?


I don't work in biglaw (well not yet, anyway), but I do work at an agency where I bill clients for my time. Clients are not like your professors, who provide you with a syllabus and due dates--clients call with a crisis (or what they consider a crisis) at 4 on Friday and want something before Monday morning. Delivering on that is your job, and whatever you may have done the rest of the week up to that point really has no bearing on how much of your weekend it will take to have something ready to go by Monday morning.

jeffreyangley
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big law really like

Postby jeffreyangley » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:00 am

The term “biglaw” pervades the pre-law online community. It is sometimes framed as the natural career path for ambitious students, sometimes held up as an almost unachievable prize, pursued mostly by the foolish and uninformed, and at other times spoken of ruefully as an unavoidable fate. Some focus on sky-high salaries while waving away the real-life implications of long hours, while others lament a future filled with crushing boredom and the inevitable loss of one's soul. All of these perspectives are grounded in fact, but they are exaggerated in the emotionally charged online discourse on biglaw. This article is an attempt to provide some factual context for that discourse.
biglaw” is prone to some variance in usage, the most commonly accepted definitions would stipulate that a biglaw job involves working in a large firm (the definition of “large” can also vary; the minimum would be 101 attorneys or more) that pays attorneys the market rate for large firms (currently starting at $160,000 a year), demands long hours, and tends to represent large corporations rather than individuals. It should be noted that these are not four totally separate criteria with any combination of filled and unfilled possible; some factors tend to carry others with them. For example, it would be odd for a firm to pay first-year associates $160,000 but never require them to work more than 40 hours per week. It is common for biglaw firms to have multiple offices in the United States or internationally. Some argue that biglaw should be delineated not by firm size per se but by a firm's inclusion in a well-known ranking of law firms, such as the NLJ 250 or the Vault 100, but this would not significantly change the firms that are included in the classification.

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Icculus
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Icculus » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:22 am

scifiguy wrote:Although, I sitll wonder why a person couldn't just work faster and harder Mon - Fri.? I read often that biglaw requires 60-80 hour weeks. If a person works 15 hours a day Mon thru fri, then they would have worked 75 hours already. Then maybe work half a day Sat. and get the night off and have Sunday off too. Possible?


Partner walks by at 5 on Friday and drops an assignment off on your desk that needs to be finished by Monday morning, there goes your weekend. The hours you worked already that week mean nothing. What you need to realize is that biglaw hours revolve around when things are required to be done. As many here have said, it's not the number of hours but the unpredictability of them. An 80 hour week does not mean you know when those 80 hours need to be worked.

perfecttender
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby perfecttender » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:30 am

piney wrote:Several of my friends in my graduating undergrad class now work in big law. As I struggle to find a decent job, I'm thinking of following them. Everyone I've spoke to though has given me the same advice: "Don't go to law school unless you really want to be a lawyer." But honestly, I have no idea what it's like to work in big law.

What exactly are you doing day to day while you're in the office? Are you really handing over your entire life to the firm? Another major concern I have is that I'll be forced to do something unethical while I'm on the job (lie, forge signatures, help conceal documents, etc.). Is this also something I should be concerned about if I want to go into big law? I'm especially worried about the last point.


hey, i am currently working in a big firm. i'll keep it short. i'm exhausted and stressed all the time. i don't want to repeat what i've put on my blog. take a look at that and, seriously, if you have any questions, reach out to me. i don't know if you are serious or if the other posters on this thread are serious, but as someone who went to law school to earn enough to take care of his family, I am always happy to talk to anyone who wants to know what it's like (please keep in mind I have only been working 2 months, as I am a recent grad too).

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:59 pm

Biglaw breh here: I've worked for a month straight with 0 days off. During that time, I was billing 70-80hrs/wk. I'm fucking tired ALL the time.

Caveat emptor.

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scifiguy
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby scifiguy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:13 pm

re: all nighters

Are these literal all nighters in that you literally do not sleep for 24 hours+ or more like you guys sleep just a few hours/night, but work very extended, long hours?

And would literal 24/7 kind all nighters require you to spend the entire time in the office itself? Or can you work from home part of the time? I mean, this sounds like a dumb question, but how do you shower/brush your teeth in that case? :|

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Rahviveh
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Rahviveh » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:19 pm

Is it at all possible to eat healthy/stay fit during biglaw? I know you have no time to cook, but what about going to the gym? Do most offices have gyms in the building?

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dingbat
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby dingbat » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:55 pm

scifiguy wrote:re: all nighters

Are these literal all nighters in that you literally do not sleep for 24 hours+ or more like you guys sleep just a few hours/night, but work very extended, long hours?

And would literal 24/7 kind all nighters require you to spend the entire time in the office itself? Or can you work from home part of the time? I mean, this sounds like a dumb question, but how do you shower/brush your teeth in that case? :|

I strongly recommend keeping a spare toothbrush, razor and underwear in a drawer

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scifiguy
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby scifiguy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:34 pm

This is a very one-sided view, but here is one description of biglaw from this website:
--LinkRemoved--


“I would HIGHLY recommend that anyone who is thinking of law school spend a year as a paralegal or as some sort of staff at a law firm before going to law school. Enough so that you can see 1) what young attorneys have to do 2) hear how much they bitch about hating it and 3) dispel any notions about ANY law firm caring about their associates or being “family friendly”. Because that is a damn expensive mistake to make if you find out you don’t like the practice of law. I went to a very good, very expensive law school and started out at a big firm. I hated it. I have since moved on to a smaller firm, which I do like more. But in all honesty, if I could do it all over, I would not go at all. And if I wasn’t staring 100K in student loans in the face, I would probably quit firm practice altogether.”

“I have worked as a paralegal in some form of legal (family, bond, litigation) for 14 years now. I have yet to meet an attorney who is satisfied with his lot in life. I am not saying everyone non-esquire is thrilled with theirs, just that on a whole, these are some of the saddest, most down-trodden people I have known in my life. Most of my best friends are attorneys so I hear first hand about the student loans they are STILL paying off at 38; the huge houses and Mercedes’ they purchased well beyond their means to “keep up with the Joneses” (aka every other attorney in the firm); the misery that is their ongoing marriages; the ridiculous hours; ice cold dinners; the utter lack of originality in their conversations; etc., etc., etc. Listening to these woes sucks the energy out of me everytime they come up. The most common nugget I hear: “Why, God WHY did I choose this profession?”"

“Nobody ever told me that I would be keeping time sheets that require me to divide my days into six-minute increments. Nobody told me I would have to choose between doing it right and doing it on a budget. The words “the client is cost-sensitive” burn my ears. But the marketing shit is the worst. The push to bring in business and schmooze potential clients and “cross-sell” within the firm. It’s worse at some firms than others, but it is absolute misery to me no matter how much or how little marketing I may be doing. I’ve been practicing for 10 years, most of that time in big firms, and I have yet to get used to the business side of things. So I suppose that would be my take on things: even if you are going to law school for all of the “right reasons,” odds are you will spend a significant portion of your day as the used-car salesman from Hell whose boss is nickle and diming you to an early grave.”

“As I write this, it is 85 degrees, sunny, with a slight, cooling breeze coming from the West. The only reason I know this is that I took twenty minutes to run to get a sandwich to eat at my desk. I am sitting in a basement office which houses three of us, putting off research on state law fair debt collection vs. the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and the definition of a creditor to write this post. If that paragraph alone doesn’t deter someone from law school, then I don’t know what will.”"

And my personal favorite, from a friend of mine who is a partner at a huge multi-national firm:

“I am a partner in one of the largest law firms in the world (measured by either revenue or # of lawyers). I had two associates pull all-nighters last night. I doubt either of them has slept more than 3 or 4 hours any night this week. I wonder if they are regretting their decision to go to law school? I’d ask, but I don’t really care. Tucker, I’d really prefer if you did not do anything to cut off the supply of drones. Fortunately, the ones who will actually be persuaded by your speech are not the ones we want working here. I actually agree with everything you said in your speech. However, whoever posted the job satisfaction stat about 76% being unsatisfied, that means 24% are satisfied. You may be in the 24%.”

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ScottRiqui
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:15 pm

How early can you reasonably start your day at most law firms? If I'm looking at a steady diet of 12-hour days, I'd much rather do 7a-7p than 9a-9p. And if you do come in earlier than most of your peers, will there still be the perception that you're leaving "early", even though you came in a couple hours before most everyone else?

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:08 pm

dingbat wrote:
scifiguy wrote:re: all nighters

Are these literal all nighters in that you literally do not sleep for 24 hours+ or more like you guys sleep just a few hours/night, but work very extended, long hours?

And would literal 24/7 kind all nighters require you to spend the entire time in the office itself? Or can you work from home part of the time? I mean, this sounds like a dumb question, but how do you shower/brush your teeth in that case? :|

I strongly recommend keeping a spare toothbrush, razor and underwear in a drawer


Yeh, or, like me, be located 1 block away from a Brooks Brothers.

Nothing worse than staying all night. I don't think I've eaten a meal with my SO since October.

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scifiguy
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby scifiguy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:35 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
dingbat wrote:
scifiguy wrote:re: all nighters

Are these literal all nighters in that you literally do not sleep for 24 hours+ or more like you guys sleep just a few hours/night, but work very extended, long hours?

And would literal 24/7 kind all nighters require you to spend the entire time in the office itself? Or can you work from home part of the time? I mean, this sounds like a dumb question, but how do you shower/brush your teeth in that case? :|

I strongly recommend keeping a spare toothbrush, razor and underwear in a drawer


Yeh, or, like me, be located 1 block away from a Brooks Brothers.

Nothing worse than staying all night. I don't think I've eaten a meal with my SO since October.


Never been to a Brooks Brothers. You can shave and shower there? Aside from the long hours and not having meals with your SO (sorry to hear about that), do you enjoy the biglaw experirence overall? Are the pros greater than the cons for you?

Lastly, I was wondering if biglaw work is like this (from that same link above):

1. “I like arguing and everyone says I’m good at it.”

Of all reasons to go to law school, this is the worst by a large margin. Know who else likes arguing? Sports talk radio hosts, cable news talking heads and teenaged girls—i.e., idiots. If you like to argue just for the sake of being contentious, you shouldn’t pick a job based on this unresolved emotional issue of yours, you should get counseling for it.

If you like arguing for the intellectual challenges it can present, that’s an understandable and reasonable position. Everyone likes a healthy, intelligent debate right? Well, understand that being a lawyer has almost nothing to do with arguing in the conventional sense, and very few lawyers ever engage in anything resembling “arguments” in their commonly understood form. You aren’t going to be sitting around a fine mahogany desk sipping scotch with your colleagues discussing the finer points of the First Amendment; you’re going to be crammed in a lifeless cubicle forced to crank out last-minute memos about the tax implications for a non-profit organization trying to lease office space to a for-profit organization (if this gets your juices flowing, maybe the law is for you after all).

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Icculus
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Re: What is big law really like?

Postby Icculus » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:32 pm

scifiguy wrote:Never been to a Brooks Brothers. You can shave and shower there?


Brooks Brothers is a men's clothing store.

Another option is join a gym close-ish to work. You can always shower there.




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