Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

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blurose
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Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:10 am

I've seen a lot of threads about transferring into GW, but not about transferring out. I'm an 0L and was accepted to GW. Call me a gunner or whatever you'd like, but I'm just exploring my options. From what I gather GW doesn't rank its students individually, just in categories, so I can only tell schools that I'm in the top 15% or 35%, etc. Will that hinder me, or will good grades simply speak for themselves?

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kwais
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby kwais » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:18 am

stop

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fatduck
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby fatduck » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:19 am

hammertime

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kalvano
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby kalvano » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:26 am

Collaborate and listen.

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fanmingrui
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby fanmingrui » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:29 am

In the name of love

blurose
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:37 am

You're all very amusing... :D

You know I'm seriously asking, right? If it's a stupid question because the information is readily available then tell me that and point me in the right direction. If it's a stupid question for some other reason then tell me what it is. Constructive criticism is welcome. Silly jokes and mockery, while amusing, aren't really the best use of anyone's time.
Last edited by blurose on Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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IAFG
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby IAFG » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:39 am

kwais wrote:stop

One time DF groped me in his sleep. I stopped, dropped and rolled out of the room.

071816
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby 071816 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:42 am

IAFG wrote:
kwais wrote:stop

One time DF groped me in his sleep. I stopped, dropped and rolled out of the room.

Image

blurose
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:49 am

Sigh...

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IAFG
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby IAFG » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:54 am

blurose wrote:Sigh...

You got what you had coming to you on this one, friend. Wanna go to a better school, re-take the LSAT.

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bk1
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:55 am

I'm gonna take pity on you because I thought of a similarly stupid question as a 0L (actually as a -1L since I realized retake/reapply was tcr). Pretty much every law school has seen thousands of transfer applications. Admissions departments talk to each other. Adcomms know a good enough grade distribution at your school to figure out your rank if one is not provided. Note: firms will do something similar to figure out your rank as well.

The reality is that if you want to be a better school than GW you should retake/reapply. You've got a 50% chance of ending up below median at GW. You've got an 80-90% chance of not having a good shot at transferring to a better school. You're exploring your options in the same way that someone who buys a lotto ticket is exploring their options by asking "what kind of Ferrari should I buy if I win the jackpot?"

blurose
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:22 am

bk1 wrote:I'm gonna take pity on you because I thought of a similarly stupid question as a 0L (actually as a -1L since I realized retake/reapply was tcr). Pretty much every law school has seen thousands of transfer applications. Admissions departments talk to each other. Adcomms know a good enough grade distribution at your school to figure out your rank if one is not provided. Note: firms will do something similar to figure out your rank as well.

The reality is that if you want to be a better school than GW you should retake/reapply. You've got a 50% chance of ending up below median at GW. You've got an 80-90% chance of not having a good shot at transferring to a better school. You're exploring your options in the same way that someone who buys a lotto ticket is exploring their options by asking "what kind of Ferrari should I buy if I win the jackpot?"


I appreciate that you took the time to actually answer. Look, I get it, it seems like a stupid and ignorant question, and I've seen a lot of those on these forums. But that's the whole point of these forums, to disabuse ourselves of our ignorance. Being ignorant does not mean I am stupid. Most people here are fairly intelligent. What it does mean is that I need information, and information on the transfer process is sorely lacking. The transfer forum directs OLs here, so that's where I came to post this question. Yes, of course, I know you shouldn't attend a law school from which you'd be unhappy graduating. Yes, I further know that retaking and reapplying the following cycle is almost always the best idea. In my case, it won't work. I am a splitter. I have a very low GPA for the schools to which I aspire. My LSAT score is decent. It won't get much better even with a lot of studying. Expecting to score in the 99th percentile is almost as ridiculous as expecting to win the lottery, to go back to your analogy. And even if I did manage to score the jackpot of a 176-180, my low LSDAS GPA bars me from some of the schools to which I aspire. From what I understand there are unofficial minimum GPA thresholds among the highest ranked schools. Even with a 180 the chance of getting accepted with a sub 3.0 LSDAS GPA is about as good as winning the lottery. Even if I am an URM, even if I apply early in the process, even if I do everything else right, it's still a crapshoot and I am not willing to wait another year to attend law school for such a slim shot.

I'd be perfectly happy graduating from GW, and I've been offered a decent chunk of aid there. This is just an inquiry. I've googled, I've read what I could find, but most of the time it's people wanting to transfer IN to GW, not out. I figured that the specific rankings wouldn't really matter as long as grades were high, but since I kept reading about how people who are successful in their attempts are at the very top of their class, I was thinking that perhaps the lack of specific rankings would hinder me. I really do appreciate your responding and telling me that the schools know better and that it won't be a problem, if I am so lucky to achieve such grades. I could do without the snark from everyone else though.
Last edited by blurose on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

jarofsoup
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby jarofsoup » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:23 am

blurose wrote:I've seen a lot of threads about transferring into GW, but not about transferring out. I'm an 0L and was accepted to GW. Call me a gunner or whatever you'd like, but I'm just exploring my options. From what I gather GW doesn't rank its students individually, just in categories, so I can only tell schools that I'm in the top 15% or 35%, etc. Will that hinder me, or will good grades simply speak for themselves?



GWU is not an entirely bad school either. That is if you want to work in that part of the world.(this is not taking in account anything related to finances). But really first year is a shit show...just search median pwned threads.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:25 am

blurose wrote:My LSAT score is decent. It won't get much better even with a lot of studying. Expecting to score in the 99th percentile is almost as ridiculous as expecting to win the lottery, to go back to your analogy. And even if I did manage to score the jackpot of a 176-180, my low LSDAS GPA bars me from some of the schools to which I aspire.


At least if you don't do well on the LSAT you don't have $200,000 of non-dischargeable debt strapped to your back. You can just keep studying and saving money. And yes, you can increase your score.

jarofsoup
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby jarofsoup » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:28 am

Mal Reynolds wrote:
blurose wrote:My LSAT score is decent. It won't get much better even with a lot of studying. Expecting to score in the 99th percentile is almost as ridiculous as expecting to win the lottery, to go back to your analogy. And even if I did manage to score the jackpot of a 176-180, my low LSDAS GPA bars me from some of the schools to which I aspire.


At least if you don't do well on the LSAT you don't have $200,000 of non-dischargeable debt strapped to your back. You can just keep studying and saving money. And yes, you can increase your score.



Dude come on. What is so wrong with non- dischargeable debt? I sooo want my wages garnished....

Just think about it you cannot even discharge the debt in death if your parents co-signed for the loan. It is the gift that keeps giving.

P.S. I am in a lot of debt :(

blurose
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:32 am

Mal Reynolds wrote:
blurose wrote:My LSAT score is decent. It won't get much better even with a lot of studying. Expecting to score in the 99th percentile is almost as ridiculous as expecting to win the lottery, to go back to your analogy. And even if I did manage to score the jackpot of a 176-180, my low LSDAS GPA bars me from some of the schools to which I aspire.


At least if you don't do well on the LSAT you don't have $200,000 of non-dischargeable debt strapped to your back. You can just keep studying and saving money. And yes, you can increase your score.


I have a 169, and that was at the height of my LSAT furor. I haven't studied in over a year. I could just as easily score below that. And even if I did retake and do really well, I don't think it will help my chances much. I have thought seriously about retaking and reapplying, but given this and other personal circumstances waiting another year isn't really an option. You're right though, taking on all that debt is a big risk. I've been stressing about it for a long time, and I'm sure it doesn't get any easier. I'm sure that in a year I'll be even less optimistic than I am now, and my optimism is in low supply as it is. But I appreciate your response.

blurose
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:33 am

jarofsoup wrote:
blurose wrote:I've seen a lot of threads about transferring into GW, but not about transferring out. I'm an 0L and was accepted to GW. Call me a gunner or whatever you'd like, but I'm just exploring my options. From what I gather GW doesn't rank its students individually, just in categories, so I can only tell schools that I'm in the top 15% or 35%, etc. Will that hinder me, or will good grades simply speak for themselves?



GWU is not an entirely bad school either. That is if you want to work in that part of the world.(this is not taking in account anything related to finances). But really first year is a shit show...just search median pwned threads.


When you say first year is a shit show do you mean that people do really poorly? Yeah, that seems to be the general consensus. I'm guessing that's why they changed from regular rankings to this "George Washington Scholar," "Thurgood Scholar" nonsense.

jarofsoup
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby jarofsoup » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:36 am

blurose wrote:
jarofsoup wrote:
blurose wrote:I've seen a lot of threads about transferring into GW, but not about transferring out. I'm an 0L and was accepted to GW. Call me a gunner or whatever you'd like, but I'm just exploring my options. From what I gather GW doesn't rank its students individually, just in categories, so I can only tell schools that I'm in the top 15% or 35%, etc. Will that hinder me, or will good grades simply speak for themselves?



GWU is not an entirely bad school either. That is if you want to work in that part of the world.(this is not taking in account anything related to finances). But really first year is a shit show...just search median pwned threads.


When you say first year is a shit show do you mean that people do really poorly? Yeah, that seems to be the general consensus. I'm guessing that's why they changed from regular rankings to this "George Washington Scholar," "Thurgood Scholar" nonsense.



I am not a current GWU student. I may transfer there but my story is very common. I got in the top 5-10% first semester. Second semester brought me down to top 15%. I still have chance at other schools that are in the top 20, but probably not the top 14. Some people are more unlucky than me and go down 20% or so.

There is little predictability. It is not like I worked any less hard my second semester. I probably worked twice as hard....The problem is that some of your classmates figure shit out.

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bk1
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:39 am

blurose wrote:Yes, I further know that retaking and reapplying the following cycle is almost always the best idea. In my case, it won't work. I am a splitter. I have a very low GPA for the schools to which I aspire. My LSAT score is decent. It won't get much better even with a lot of studying. Expecting to score in the 99th percentile is almost as ridiculous as expecting to win the lottery, to go back to your analogy. And even if I did manage to score the jackpot of a 176-180, my low LSDAS GPA bars me from some of the schools to which I aspire. From what I understand there are unofficial minimum GPA thresholds among the highest ranked schools. Even with a 180 the chance of getting accepted with a sub 3.0 LSDAS GPA is about as good as winning the lottery. Even if I am an URM, even if I apply early in the process, even if I do everything else right, it's still a crapshoot and I am not willing to wait another year to attend law school for such a slim shot.


1. I have a sub 3.0 UGPA and go to a T14. Plenty of other people do too. A sub3 isn't going to necessarily keep you out of NU/GULC/UVA assuming you have a good enough LSAT. It's not really a crapshoot at all. You clearly seem not to have done a lot of research unless you're talking abut a particularly horrendous sub3 (e.g. 2.3 or below or something like that).

2. You can't compare the LSAT and 1L grades like that, they're apples and oranges. When you compete for 1L grades you are doing something which you have very little practice doing, don't know how well you can expect to score, and are subject to the whims of individual professors. With the LSAT you get tons of practice, do know how well you can expect to score, and are taking something standardized. Furthermore with 1L grades you are curved against people who are roughly as smart as you are (similar LSATs and GPAs). On the LSAT, 50 percent of takers don't even go to law school and another 40 percent or so go to crappy law schools so the 99th percentile isn't as like the lottery. The final thing, and this is huge, is that it only costs a few hundred bucks to take the LSAT and you can take it as many times as you want (subject to 3x per 2 years) and not have to go in debt or forsake a full time job to do it. 1L grades are something you only get a single shot at, costs you thousands of dollars in tuition and CoL money which you are probably financing with debt, and you likely won't be able to earn money through a job. They really are not comparable.

If you really have capped out your LSAT that's 1 thing, but with the amount of research you seem to have done towards how to apply with a sub3 makes me skeptical that you've actually put full effort into the best possible LSAT.

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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:52 am

bk1 wrote:
blurose wrote:Yes, I further know that retaking and reapplying the following cycle is almost always the best idea. In my case, it won't work. I am a splitter. I have a very low GPA for the schools to which I aspire. My LSAT score is decent. It won't get much better even with a lot of studying. Expecting to score in the 99th percentile is almost as ridiculous as expecting to win the lottery, to go back to your analogy. And even if I did manage to score the jackpot of a 176-180, my low LSDAS GPA bars me from some of the schools to which I aspire. From what I understand there are unofficial minimum GPA thresholds among the highest ranked schools. Even with a 180 the chance of getting accepted with a sub 3.0 LSDAS GPA is about as good as winning the lottery. Even if I am an URM, even if I apply early in the process, even if I do everything else right, it's still a crapshoot and I am not willing to wait another year to attend law school for such a slim shot.


1. I have a sub 3.0 UGPA and go to a T14. Plenty of other people do too. A sub3 isn't going to necessarily keep you out of NU/GULC/UVA assuming you have a good enough LSAT. It's not really a crapshoot at all. You clearly seem not to have done a lot of research unless you're talking abut a particularly horrendous sub3 (e.g. 2.3 or below or something like that).

2. You can't compare the LSAT and 1L grades like that, they're apples and oranges. When you compete for 1L grades you are doing something which you have very little practice doing, don't know how well you can expect to score, and are subject to the whims of individual professors. With the LSAT you get tons of practice, do know how well you can expect to score, and are taking something standardized. Furthermore with 1L grades you are curved against people who are roughly as smart as you are (similar LSATs and GPAs). On the LSAT, 50 percent of takers don't even go to law school and another 40 percent or so go to crappy law schools so the 99th percentile isn't as like the lottery. The final thing, and this is huge, is that it only costs a few hundred bucks to take the LSAT and you can take it as many times as you want (subject to 3x per 2 years) and not have to go in debt or forsake a full time job to do it. 1L grades are something you only get a single shot at, costs you thousands of dollars in tuition and CoL money which you are probably financing with debt, and you likely won't be able to earn money through a job. They really are not comparable.

If you really have capped out your LSAT that's 1 thing, but with the amount of research you seem to have done towards how to apply with a sub3 makes me skeptical that you've actually put full effort into the best possible LSAT.


1. My LSDAS GPA is 2.92. It's not that bad. My degree GPA is 3.2. But in researching possibilities of transferring I wasn't planning on transferring to NYU, GULC, or UVA. Although GULC would be great since I love DC and would want to remain there. I applied this cycle and was rejected. I suppose with a higher LSAT score I might have a shot but I don't think they favor splitters as much as other schools.

2. When I first got my LSAT score I was chomping at the bit to retake. That 169 really pissed me off, I was only one question away from a 170. I seem to be the poster child for the borderline numbers. I was really confident at the time that I could retake and get a higher score, but I was advised by people whose opinions I trust that it was not a good idea to take that risk, and if I happened to screw up and score below a 169 I would be perceived as having questionable judgment.

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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:00 am

blurose wrote:1. My LSDAS GPA is 2.92. It's not that bad. My degree GPA is 3.2. But in researching possibilities of transferring I wasn't planning on transferring to NYU, GULC, or UVA. Although GULC would be great since I love DC and would want to remain there. I applied this cycle and was rejected. I suppose with a higher LSAT score I might have a shot but I don't think they favor splitters as much as other schools.

2. When I first got my LSAT score I was chomping at the bit to retake. That 169 really pissed me off, I was only one question away from a 170. I seem to be the poster child for the borderline numbers. I was really confident at the time that I could retake and get a higher score, but I was advised by people whose opinions I trust that it was not a good idea to take that risk, and if I happened to screw up and score below a 169 I would be perceived as having questionable judgment.


I'm not talking about transferring, I'm talking about regular applications. You have a 2.92 and a 169. You'd be an idiot if you didn't retake. 1+ point gives you a shot at Northwestern (not NYU, and assuming you have work experience), UVA, and GULC. 3+ points gives you a good shot.

The people who you trust are wrong. Schools aren't gonna care if you scored below a 169 on your next take because all they care about is upping their medians and since all they have to report is the top score, they will only care about your 169.

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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:11 am

bk1 wrote:I'm not talking about transferring, I'm talking about regular applications. You have a 2.92 and a 169. You'd be an idiot if you didn't retake. 1+ point gives you a shot at Northwestern (not NYU, and assuming you have work experience), UVA, and GULC. 3+ points gives you a good shot.


Sorry, I understood what you meant but didn't reply clearly. I mean, my desire to transfer is motivated by my wanting to attempt to attend schools that would be out of my reach even if I were to retake and reapply. Like HYS. Correct me if I'm wrong but even if I scored a 180 and cured cancer they would not take me with a 2.92. You said I wouldn't have a shot at NYU if I only went up a point. Since I've been accepted to GW with some money it seems like a waste of time to put off law school another year to try to get into GULC. Am I wrong? I know there's a big difference, perceived anyway, between T14 and the top 20, so maybe you are right. Oh, and though they are fantastic schools and I'd be very lucky to attend, I'm not particularly interested in Northwestern or UVA.

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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby Br3v » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:15 am

blurose wrote:
bk1 wrote:I'm not talking about transferring, I'm talking about regular applications. You have a 2.92 and a 169. You'd be an idiot if you didn't retake. 1+ point gives you a shot at Northwestern (not NYU, and assuming you have work experience), UVA, and GULC. 3+ points gives you a good shot.


Sorry, I understood what you meant but didn't reply clearly. I mean, my desire to transfer is motivated by my wanting to attempt to attend schools that would be out of my reach even if I were to retake and reapply. Like HYS. Correct me if I'm wrong but even if I scored a 180 and cured cancer they would not take me with a 2.92. You said I wouldn't have a shot at NYU if I only went up a point. Since I've been accepted to GW with some money it seems like a waste of time to put off law school another year to try to get into GULC. Am I wrong? I know there's a big difference, perceived anyway, between T14 and the top 20, so maybe you are right. Oh, and though they are fantastic schools and I'd be very lucky to attend, I'm not particularly interested in Northwestern or UVA.


If you will be happy at GW then go. If not then do not. If you happen to get lucky (on top of busting your ass) and get to transfer up then that is just icing on the cake, NOT to be confused with the actual cake itself.

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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:18 am

blurose wrote:Sorry, I understood what you meant but didn't reply clearly. I mean, my desire to transfer is motivated by my wanting to attempt to attend schools that would be out of my reach even if I were to retake and reapply. Like HYS. Correct me if I'm wrong but even if I scored a 180 and cured cancer they would not take me with a 2.92. You said I wouldn't have a shot at NYU if I only went up a point. Since I've been accepted to GW with some money it seems like a waste of time to put off law school another year to try to get into GULC. Am I wrong? I know there's a big difference, perceived anyway, between T14 and the top 20, so maybe you are right. Oh, and though they are fantastic schools and I'd be very lucky to attend, I'm not particularly interested in Northwestern or UVA.


It depends on the kind of money. Even if you got a 100k scholarship to go to GW, you'd still have 140k+ in debt by the time you started paying it back. GW's employment prospects don't really justify that kind of debt. GULC is also a far far better school than GW. I'm not necessarily saying that GULC at sticker is better than GW with 100k, but that is something you should ask yourself.

You're right, HYS aren't gonna take you. Most other T14's won't either. But there are 3 that will. While other people can be choosy with where they go to school, unfortunately sub3's don't have that choice. Employment prospects at the lower are roughly equivalent (especially for NYC) so you really shouldn't foreclose 2 schools without good reason when you don't have a lot of choice to begin with.

Your chances of getting into HYS as a transfer are slim to none since your chances of doing well enough to transfer there aren't that great (roughly less than 10%). You should really accept that they aren't gonna happen.

blurose
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Re: Anyone transfer OUT of GW?

Postby blurose » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:22 am

bk1 wrote:
blurose wrote:Sorry, I understood what you meant but didn't reply clearly. I mean, my desire to transfer is motivated by my wanting to attempt to attend schools that would be out of my reach even if I were to retake and reapply. Like HYS. Correct me if I'm wrong but even if I scored a 180 and cured cancer they would not take me with a 2.92. You said I wouldn't have a shot at NYU if I only went up a point. Since I've been accepted to GW with some money it seems like a waste of time to put off law school another year to try to get into GULC. Am I wrong? I know there's a big difference, perceived anyway, between T14 and the top 20, so maybe you are right. Oh, and though they are fantastic schools and I'd be very lucky to attend, I'm not particularly interested in Northwestern or UVA.


It depends on the kind of money. Even if you got a 100k scholarship to go to GW, you'd still have 140k+ in debt by the time you started paying it back. GW's employment prospects don't really justify that kind of debt. GULC is also a far far better school than GW. I'm not necessarily saying that GULC at sticker is better than GW with 100k, but that is something you should ask yourself.

You're right, HYS aren't gonna take you. Most other T14's won't either. But there are 3 that will. While other people can be choosy with where they go to school, unfortunately sub3's don't have that choice. Employment prospects at the lower are roughly equivalent (especially for NYC) so you really shouldn't foreclose 2 schools without good reason when you don't have a lot of choice to begin with.

Your chances of getting into HYS as a transfer are slim to none since your chances of doing well enough to transfer there aren't that great (roughly less than 10%). You should really accept that they aren't gonna happen.


Thank you, I appreciate your advice. You're right that I shouldn't be so choosy with regards to Northwestern and UVA.




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