Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

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jrwhitedog
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Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jrwhitedog » Wed May 23, 2012 5:47 pm

I just got my master of engineering degree 6 months ago, and if I want to be an IP lawyer, which would be more useful, working experience of about 1 year in the IT industry or certifications like Cisco or Oracle certified? Thanks.

2012JayDee
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby 2012JayDee » Wed May 30, 2012 9:05 pm

Passing the patent bar.
Then prior experience.

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jrwhitedog
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jrwhitedog » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:19 pm

2012JayDee wrote:Passing the patent bar.
Then prior experience.

By prior experience, you mean working experience right? How about your academic background?

Renzo
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby Renzo » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:27 pm

If you are sure you want to be a patent lawyer, take the patent bar and try and get a job as a patent agent. An acquaintance of mine is a patent agent. He just graduated from Fordham's evening program (which he attended on his employer's dime), has a guaranteed job lined up after he sits for the bar (which he's prepping for on the firm's dime), and was making OK money throughout law school.

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yuzu
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby yuzu » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:11 am

jrwhitedog wrote:I just got my master of engineering degree 6 months ago, and if I want to be an IP lawyer, which would be more useful, working experience of about 1 year in the IT industry or certifications like Cisco or Oracle certified? Thanks.


In my opinion CCIE/OCP basically just show you understand a company's products and aren't too useful outside IT jobs working with those companies' products. Experience will look better on a resume.

Patent bar is far better than any of these certifications (at least for an IP firm).

jim-green
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jim-green » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:52 am

Is having the patent bar on one's resume really like having law review?

You don't need patent bar to litigate. Why is it so prized?

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chem
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby chem » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:30 am

jim-green wrote:Is having the patent bar on one's resume really like having law review?

You don't need patent bar to litigate. Why is it so prized?


Because it is required to prosecute, which is the other half of the coin. Prosecution also includes interferences (as does litigation) at least regarding patent eligibility, which is HUGE. It also means that as an SA you can do real work, because you know the basics of patent drafting

jim-green
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jim-green » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:49 am

chem wrote:
jim-green wrote:Is having the patent bar on one's resume really like having law review? You don't need patent bar to litigate. Why is it so prized?
Because it is required to prosecute, which is the other half of the coin. Prosecution also includes interferences (as does litigation) at least regarding patent eligibility, which is HUGE. It also means that as an SA you can do real work, because you know the basics of patent drafting
I am not flaming, just asking sincerely. I took the patent bar. But from conversations with attorneys, they say prosecution is looked down upon as a tier-2 track and not partner-making track. I hear litigation is the prestigious one. Hence, I was confused by you saying patent bar is good to have. Any other info you can give me?

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chem
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby chem » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:59 am

jim-green wrote:
chem wrote:
jim-green wrote:Is having the patent bar on one's resume really like having law review? You don't need patent bar to litigate. Why is it so prized?
Because it is required to prosecute, which is the other half of the coin. Prosecution also includes interferences (as does litigation) at least regarding patent eligibility, which is HUGE. It also means that as an SA you can do real work, because you know the basics of patent drafting
I am not flaming, just asking sincerely. I took the patent bar. But from conversations with attorneys, they say prosecution is looked down upon as a tier-2 track and not partner-making track. I hear litigation is the prestigious one. Hence, I was confused by you saying patent bar is good to have. Any other info you can give me?


I think I might have seen you in the markman thread. I'm an 0L, so everything with a grain of salt, but the patent attorneys that I've talked to, plus markman in the litigator thread, all say that prosecution experience in regard to patent litigation is like having a clerkship for other practice areas. Prosecution makes you a better litigator, helps you understand the file wrapper, and most importantly, gets your foot in the door for boutique IP firms and patent groups at GP firms.

jim-green
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jim-green » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:16 am

chem wrote:
jim-green wrote:
chem wrote:
jim-green wrote:Is having the patent bar on one's resume really like having law review? You don't need patent bar to litigate. Why is it so prized?
Because it is required to prosecute, ... now the basics of patent drafting
I am not flaming, just asking ... patent bar is good to have. Any other info you can give me?
I think I might have seen you in ... mportantly, gets your foot in the door for boutique IP firms and patent groups at GP firms.
Can you send me the markman litigation thread please? Also, is there a section of TLS for patent law?

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chem
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby chem » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:19 am

jim-green wrote:
chem wrote:
jim-green wrote:
chem wrote:Because it is required to prosecute, ... now the basics of patent drafting
I am not flaming, just asking ... patent bar is good to have. Any other info you can give me?
I think I might have seen you in ... mportantly, gets your foot in the door for boutique IP firms and patent groups at GP firms.
Can you send me the markman litigation thread please? Also, is there a section of TLS for patent law?


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=184950

No section. Try out intelproplaw.com forums

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jrwhitedog
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jrwhitedog » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Renzo wrote:If you are sure you want to be a patent lawyer, take the patent bar and try and get a job as a patent agent. An acquaintance of mine is a patent agent. He just graduated from Fordham's evening program (which he attended on his employer's dime), has a guaranteed job lined up after he sits for the bar (which he's prepping for on the firm's dime), and was making OK money throughout law school.

I think you'll sound more credible if you change your image, lol.

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MormonChristian
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby MormonChristian » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:32 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:I just got my master of engineering degree 6 months ago, and if I want to be an IP lawyer, which would be more useful, working experience of about 1 year in the IT industry or certifications like Cisco or Oracle certified? Thanks.



Experience.

Renzo
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby Renzo » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:23 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:
Renzo wrote:If you are sure you want to be a patent lawyer, take the patent bar and try and get a job as a patent agent. An acquaintance of mine is a patent agent. He just graduated from Fordham's evening program (which he attended on his employer's dime), has a guaranteed job lined up after he sits for the bar (which he's prepping for on the firm's dime), and was making OK money throughout law school.

I think you'll sound more credible if you change your image, lol.


You find me an avatar that is more offensive, and yet abides by the forums rules, and I'll change it.

2012JayDee
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby 2012JayDee » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:03 pm

Fitzpatrick Cella is a top firm that specializes in all ares of IP.

Here's some of the things they look for in hiring:
We look for a good academic record and excellent writing skills, and prefer a scientific or technical background. We do not base our hiring decisions on any predetermined requirements with respect to law school class standing.
http://www.fitzpatrickcella.com/?p=2548

Like a number of firms with large IP practice groups they also have this:

Our Technical Advisor Program is available to individuals with advanced degrees in science or engineering, or an exceptionally high amount of industry experience, who are currently enrolled in a local law school evening program. Technical Advisors assist in all aspects of the firm's patent practice including patent prosecution, litigation, transactions and other areas. The goal of the Program is for the Advisor to mature into a full-time associate upon graduation.


Law firms that do IP/Patent work are looking for people with the skills and expertise. Most law students are not engineers and do not possess technical backgrounds. The ones that do are in a very unique position to get jobs that their peers will never qualify for. This is why the patent bar is important. This is why people with technical degrees are looked at differently by firms. They can put you to work right away doing patent prosecution.

jim-green
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jim-green » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:12 pm

Renzo wrote:You find me an avatar that is more offensive, and yet abides by the forums rules, and I'll change it.
A Catholic priest?

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jrwhitedog
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jrwhitedog » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:31 pm

Renzo wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:
Renzo wrote:If you are sure you want to be a patent lawyer, take the patent bar and try and get a job as a patent agent. An acquaintance of mine is a patent agent. He just graduated from Fordham's evening program (which he attended on his employer's dime), has a guaranteed job lined up after he sits for the bar (which he's prepping for on the firm's dime), and was making OK money throughout law school.

I think you'll sound more credible if you change your image, lol.


You find me an avatar that is more offensive, and yet abides by the forums rules, and I'll change it.

How about Sandusky's lawyer?

Renzo
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby Renzo » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:58 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:
Renzo wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:
Renzo wrote:If you are sure you want to be a patent lawyer, take the patent bar and try and get a job as a patent agent. An acquaintance of mine is a patent agent. He just graduated from Fordham's evening program (which he attended on his employer's dime), has a guaranteed job lined up after he sits for the bar (which he's prepping for on the firm's dime), and was making OK money throughout law school.

I think you'll sound more credible if you change your image, lol.


You find me an avatar that is more offensive, and yet abides by the forums rules, and I'll change it.

How about Sandusky's lawyer?


That's not bad, actually. I mean, he did impregnate a 16 year-old client. But no one would get it.

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jrwhitedog
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Re: Experience or certification, which is more useful for IP law

Postby jrwhitedog » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:16 pm

yuzu wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:I just got my master of engineering degree 6 months ago, and if I want to be an IP lawyer, which would be more useful, working experience of about 1 year in the IT industry or certifications like Cisco or Oracle certified? Thanks.


In my opinion CCIE/OCP basically just show you understand a company's products and aren't too useful outside IT jobs working with those companies' products. Experience will look better on a resume.

Patent bar is far better than any of these certifications (at least for an IP firm).


So does Phd help? I think CCIE is like the Phd of internetworking.




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