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Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:19 pm
by SplitMyPants
theventriloquist wrote:If you don't mind me asking, how competitive is the atmosphere at duke law?


If by competitive you mean cut-throat, then I would say not at all. Everyone is extremely collegial and very friendly. If by competitive you simply mean the curve then I would say everyone here is smart and works hard, so nothing is guaranteed.

theventriloquist wrote:They grade on a curve, so how hard is to get top of class? I have a LSAT of 177; I have read that LSAT correlates with grades.


If by top of the class you mean top 25%, then I would say you have a 1 in 4 chance. If you mean top 10%, then I'd adjust that to 1 in 10.

Whatever you read is misguided. The conventional wisdom around here is that lsat does not correlate with 1L grades very well, if at all. This is true for a few reasons reasons. For one, plenty of people who are capable of 177's get 170s to pair with their 3.9x and never feel the need to retake nor do they necessarily wish they had ground out a few more weeks of prep, as that score combo is well over a half ride at Duke. Further, logic games etc. are not a very good proxy for a law school exam.

theventriloquist wrote:I want to get into biglaw so i have to graduate at top of class.

This is wrong. Duke places very well into big law. From Duke you can get big law no problem with a 3.2 and up (median is 3.3). If you want W&C DC then maybe yes you need to be towards the top. But big law generally, no. Even for V10 or V20, top half or top third will get you there.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:19 pm
by lymenheimer
theventriloquist wrote:
PB&J.D. wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:Hi, I wanted to ask about the JD/MBA admission advantage. How much of an advantage is being an 1L, if you apply to the MBA while a 1L? Does it increase chances? I want to apply JD/MBA but i have better shot at Duke Law compared to MBA

ALSO

Are the financial and business courses offered at duke Law quantitative in nature? Would it be at a rigor, math-wise, of a business school? And would IB and PE and hedge looks favorably upon the business and financial courses offered at Duke law?

Thank you!

I'd think it's negligible. And the business courses at Duke law are not quantitatively rigorous (with basic accounting being the most in-depth). I have no IB/PE/HF experience, but I highly doubt those courses would carry weight with them.

Do you want to be an in-house attorney at a fund?


Thanks for that answer. I want to go into BigLaw.

If you don't mind me asking, how competitive is the atmosphere at duke law? They grade on a curve, so how hard is to get top of class? I have a LSAT of 177; I have read that LSAT correlates with grades. I wonder if I can make it at the top of class.

I know you'll say, "work hard and sure you can." But everyone--especially at Duke--works hard. But most get B's and C's, b/c of the curve. So I'm guessing, to be top, you really need to have intelligence, is that correct?

I want to get into biglaw so i have to graduate at top of class.


You need to reevaluate your choice to go to law school if you can't appropriately identify information and it's implications. And if you're hoping to take quant classes you should learn to better interpret numbers. Idk how you got a 177 with these skills of deduction.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:44 pm
by theventriloquist
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:If you don't mind me asking, how competitive is the atmosphere at duke law?


If by competitive you mean cut-throat, then I would say not at all. Everyone is extremely collegial and very friendly. If by competitive you simply mean the curve then I would say everyone here is smart and works hard, so nothing is guaranteed.

theventriloquist wrote:They grade on a curve, so how hard is to get top of class? I have a LSAT of 177; I have read that LSAT correlates with grades.


If by top of the class you mean top 25%, then I would say you have a 1 in 4 chance. If you mean top 10%, then I'd adjust that to 1 in 10.

Whatever you read is misguided. The conventional wisdom around here is that lsat does not correlate with 1L grades very well, if at all. This is true for a few reasons reasons. For one, plenty of people who are capable of 177's get 170s to pair with their 3.9x and never feel the need to retake nor do they necessarily wish they had ground out a few more weeks of prep, as that score combo is well over a half ride at Duke. Further, logic games etc. are not a very good proxy for a law school exam.

theventriloquist wrote:I want to get into biglaw so i have to graduate at top of class.

This is wrong. Duke places very well into big law. From Duke you can get big law no problem with a 3.2 and up (median is 3.3). If you want W&C DC then maybe yes you need to be towards the top. But big law generally, no. Even for V10 or V20, top half or top third will get you there.


Thanks a lot! Grading seems harsh, with a mandated max of 3.5 for small classes. Other law schools don't have that mandate. I was looking at NU, which does not have the mandate. I want a school w/ grade inflation.

I wonder of that mandate affects group work? How likely are classmates willing to help each other? Like do they share notes, ideas, etc? I would imagine not.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:37 pm
by SplitMyPants
theventriloquist wrote:Thanks a lot! Grading seems harsh, with a mandated max of 3.5 for small classes. Other law schools don't have that mandate. I was looking at NU, which does not have the mandate. I want a school w/ grade inflation.

I wonder of that mandate affects group work? How likely are classmates willing to help each other? Like do they share notes, ideas, etc? I would imagine not.


Double check your RC on your reading of that rule. That's a relaxation of the 3.3 median to 3.5 for classes of less than 50 people. Therefore, while the same rule notes that exam-based classes should still tend toward a 3.3, classes with 49 or fewer people can have a median of 3.5 and still have the same grade ceiling of a 4.3. Classes below 10 people have no formal median (which particularly makes sense since those classes are often paper-based, or at least not purely exam-based).

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:42 pm
by SplitMyPants
Honestly, you are getting lost in the minutiae. Do not pick a school based on things like this.

Duke, NU, or any T14, all offer plenty of a chance at big law. Every firm has their own loose, school-adjusted GPA policy. Whether or not you strike out will not have to do with Duke's Rule 3.1 versus some other school's grading policy...

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:50 pm
by theventriloquist
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:Thanks a lot! Grading seems harsh, with a mandated max of 3.5 for small classes. Other law schools don't have that mandate. I was looking at NU, which does not have the mandate. I want a school w/ grade inflation.

I wonder of that mandate affects group work? How likely are classmates willing to help each other? Like do they share notes, ideas, etc? I would imagine not.


Double check your RC on your reading of that rule. That's a relaxation of the 3.3 median to 3.5 for classes of less than 50 people. Therefore, while the same rule notes that exam-based classes should still tend toward a 3.3, classes with 49 or fewer people can have a median of 3.5 and still have the same grade ceiling of a 4.3. Classes below 10 people have no formal median (which particularly makes sense since those classes are often paper-based, or at least not purely exam-based).


Why so salty? That is what I said. For smaller classes, they have a mandated max median of 3.5. So wouldn't that create a competitive atmosphere in every class? I doubt that students will share notes and ideas, given that someones gain is always someone's loss.

NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:56 pm
by grades??
theventriloquist wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:Thanks a lot! Grading seems harsh, with a mandated max of 3.5 for small classes. Other law schools don't have that mandate. I was looking at NU, which does not have the mandate. I want a school w/ grade inflation.

I wonder of that mandate affects group work? How likely are classmates willing to help each other? Like do they share notes, ideas, etc? I would imagine not.


Double check your RC on your reading of that rule. That's a relaxation of the 3.3 median to 3.5 for classes of less than 50 people. Therefore, while the same rule notes that exam-based classes should still tend toward a 3.3, classes with 49 or fewer people can have a median of 3.5 and still have the same grade ceiling of a 4.3. Classes below 10 people have no formal median (which particularly makes sense since those classes are often paper-based, or at least not purely exam-based).


Why so salty? That is what I said. For smaller classes, they have a mandated max median of 3.5. So wouldn't that create a competitive atmosphere in every class? I doubt that students will share notes and ideas, given that someones gain is always someone's loss.

NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.


I can't wait for you to get banned

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:04 pm
by SplitMyPants
theventriloquist wrote:NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.


i mean it's still kind of moot. oci interviewers see hundreds of students from a given school each year. rest assured, they know what the de facto median is. therefore, even if that de facto median is a 4.0, you will still strike out with a 3.7...

so, still, i would say do not base your decision on this.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:16 pm
by theventriloquist
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.


i mean it's still kind of moot. oci interviewers see hundreds of students from a given school each year. rest assured, they know what the de facto median is. therefore, even if that de facto median is a 4.0, you will still strike out with a 3.7...

so, still, i would say do not base your decision on this.


Ok thanks that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, to my original question, how is the atmosphere in the class? For instance, do students share notes, ideas, etc? Thank you again for your time .

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:24 pm
by lymenheimer
theventriloquist wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.


i mean it's still kind of moot. oci interviewers see hundreds of students from a given school each year. rest assured, they know what the de facto median is. therefore, even if that de facto median is a 4.0, you will still strike out with a 3.7...

so, still, i would say do not base your decision on this.


Ok thanks that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, to my original question, how is the atmosphere in the class? For instance, do students share notes, ideas, etc? Thank you again for your time .

Nope. Nobody here talks to anybody else. In fact, my communications with others are generally them asking for notes that they missed. I give them notes that I intentionally miswrote, just so they can have that information wrong.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:29 pm
by theventriloquist
lymenheimer wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.


i mean it's still kind of moot. oci interviewers see hundreds of students from a given school each year. rest assured, they know what the de facto median is. therefore, even if that de facto median is a 4.0, you will still strike out with a 3.7...

so, still, i would say do not base your decision on this.


Ok thanks that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, to my original question, how is the atmosphere in the class? For instance, do students share notes, ideas, etc? Thank you again for your time .

Nope. Nobody here talks to anybody else. In fact, my communications with others are generally them asking for notes that they missed. I give them notes that I intentionally miswrote, just so they can have that information wrong.


Wow why so angry? I was asking a question about the competitive environment. It's a good question. I don't know why couldn't answer that question in a respectful manner.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:33 pm
by legallybrunette93
theventriloquist wrote:Hi, I wanted to ask about the JD/MBA admission advantage. How much of an advantage is being an 1L, if you apply to the MBA while a 1L? Does it increase chances? I want to apply JD/MBA but i have better shot at Duke Law compared to MBA

ALSO

Are the financial and business courses offiered at duke Law quantative in nature? Would it be at a rigor, math-wise, of a business school? And would IB and PE and hedge looks favorably upon the business and financial courses offered at Duke law?

Thank you!


One of my close friends is a JD/MBA so I'm just passing on what I've heard from him. The JD and MBA applications are completely separate. You can get into the MBA and not get into the JD, and you can get into the JD and not get into the MBA or you can get into both or either. They don't take into account if you apply to both or are currently at the law school.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:33 pm
by lymenheimer
theventriloquist wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.


i mean it's still kind of moot. oci interviewers see hundreds of students from a given school each year. rest assured, they know what the de facto median is. therefore, even if that de facto median is a 4.0, you will still strike out with a 3.7...

so, still, i would say do not base your decision on this.


Ok thanks that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, to my original question, how is the atmosphere in the class? For instance, do students share notes, ideas, etc? Thank you again for your time .

Nope. Nobody here talks to anybody else. In fact, my communications with others are generally them asking for notes that they missed. I give them notes that I intentionally miswrote, just so they can have that information wrong.


Wow why so angry? I was asking a question about the competitive environment. It's a good question. I don't know why couldn't answer that question in a respectful manner.

Why are you reading my post in an angry tone? Maybe you should reflect inwardly on your own emotions. And anyways, your question was already answered by split and any other discussions about duke. It's very collegial. Nobody cares about the curve enough to hurt others' grades.

eta: why would you think I was responding angrily? If you thought Duke was not collegial, isn't my response something like you would expect? How would you know that I was being disingenuous with my response, unless you already knew the answer to your question?

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:47 pm
by theventriloquist
lymenheimer wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.


i mean it's still kind of moot. oci interviewers see hundreds of students from a given school each year. rest assured, they know what the de facto median is. therefore, even if that de facto median is a 4.0, you will still strike out with a 3.7...

so, still, i would say do not base your decision on this.


Ok thanks that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, to my original question, how is the atmosphere in the class? For instance, do students share notes, ideas, etc? Thank you again for your time .

Nope. Nobody here talks to anybody else. In fact, my communications with others are generally them asking for notes that they missed. I give them notes that I intentionally miswrote, just so they can have that information wrong.


Wow why so angry? I was asking a question about the competitive environment. It's a good question. I don't know why couldn't answer that question in a respectful manner.

Why are you reading my post in an angry tone? Maybe you should reflect inwardly on your own emotions. And anyways, your question was already answered by split and any other discussions about duke. It's very collegial. Nobody cares about the curve enough to hurt others' grades.

eta: why would you think I was responding angrily? If you thought Duke was not collegial, isn't my response something like you would expect? How would you know that I was being disingenuous with my response, unless you already knew the answer to your question?


I know everyone is friendly, etc. Everyone everywhere is going to be friendly. I'm talking about group work. For example, in a master's program I took, people posted notes and helpful links on a private group on Facebook. would that take place if the class mean was on a curve? Don't think so.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:58 pm
by CaptainLeela
theventriloquist wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:NU and others don't have that requirement for small classes. NU is also good for BigLaw, and seems less competitivie, grade-wise.


i mean it's still kind of moot. oci interviewers see hundreds of students from a given school each year. rest assured, they know what the de facto median is. therefore, even if that de facto median is a 4.0, you will still strike out with a 3.7...

so, still, i would say do not base your decision on this.


Ok thanks that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, to my original question, how is the atmosphere in the class? For instance, do students share notes, ideas, etc? Thank you again for your time .

Nope. Nobody here talks to anybody else. In fact, my communications with others are generally them asking for notes that they missed. I give them notes that I intentionally miswrote, just so they can have that information wrong.


Wow why so angry? I was asking a question about the competitive environment. It's a good question. I don't know why couldn't answer that question in a respectful manner.

Why are you reading my post in an angry tone? Maybe you should reflect inwardly on your own emotions. And anyways, your question was already answered by split and any other discussions about duke. It's very collegial. Nobody cares about the curve enough to hurt others' grades.

eta: why would you think I was responding angrily? If you thought Duke was not collegial, isn't my response something like you would expect? How would you know that I was being disingenuous with my response, unless you already knew the answer to your question?


I know everyone is friendly, etc. Everyone everywhere is going to be friendly. I'm talking about group work. For example, in a master's program I took, people posted notes and helpful links on a private group on Facebook. would that take place if the class mean was on a curve? Don't think so.

This happened in my 1L section on a regular basis. HTH.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:31 pm
by Serett
:lol:

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:46 am
by rizzlebizness
Recommendations for where to live as a 1L? Browsed Denovo and have surfed some websites. I'm thinking the best (but not cheapest option) as a 1L is to live solo/walking distance (e.g., Heights/Lofts/Trinity Commons) and then hope to find rooomates for 2L and 3L.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:25 am
by lymenheimer
rizzlebizness wrote:Recommendations for where to live as a 1L? Browsed Denovo and have surfed some websites. I'm thinking the best (but not cheapest option) as a 1L is to live solo/walking distance (e.g., Heights/Lofts/Trinity Commons) and then hope to find rooomates for 2L and 3L.

You might wanna do the reverse order. I dont know of many people looking for roommates after 1L. Most of my friends are looking for a house/townhouse with their favorite roommate from the apartment that they shared 1L. Not that it's impossible, but it'd make it easier.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:08 pm
by rizzlebizness
lymenheimer wrote:
rizzlebizness wrote:Recommendations for where to live as a 1L? Browsed Denovo and have surfed some websites. I'm thinking the best (but not cheapest option) as a 1L is to live solo/walking distance (e.g., Heights/Lofts/Trinity Commons) and then hope to find rooomates for 2L and 3L.

You might wanna do the reverse order. I dont know of many people looking for roommates after 1L. Most of my friends are looking for a house/townhouse with their favorite roommate from the apartment that they shared 1L. Not that it's impossible, but it'd make it easier.


I agree. It feels like most of the places I would like to live are 1x1 or 2x2 only. I'm a big proponent of having 2 roommates as opposed to only 1. I feel like there is a much better balance to it.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 8:50 pm
by Stephylynette
Does Duke reduce need based scholarship money if you do an SA program?

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:43 am
by PB&J.D.
Stephylynette wrote:Does Duke reduce need based scholarship money if you do an SA program?

I don't think so. Someone else might know better, but they didn't differentiate need-based and merit aid for me.

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:53 am
by lolRCscrewyou
Alright, I see some future gunners on this thread as well as some of my jaded classmates, so let me try and offer a more objective prospective of 1L at Duke.

1) You don't need to be top of your class to get Big Law. Duke has one of the best placements in Big Law, especially in NYC. I have never heard of anyone who wanted Big Law not getting it upon graduation. As long as you put forth a good faith effort, you should be fine.

2) MOST students are friendly and helpful. I had a graded midterm during 1L, and when I got to school I opened my computer and was greeted to a broken screen. Tech didn't have the cords needed to connect my computer to a screen so I could print my outline, so I had nothing. I sent an email to my section begging for help, and over 5 people sent me their outlines. They could have let me suffer and pad the curve, but they didn't. If you aren't an ass to others, people will help you out (mostly because no one feels threatened about getting big law).

3) For every 9 friendly students, there is that 1 ass of a gunner who helps no one but him/herself. Law is mostly collaborative work, so while these people may get top grades they will fail at law firms. Associates will hate them just as much as their classmates do, and they'll eventually get the "You need to get your billable hours up" talk. Don't become this person, it will fuck you over in the long run.

4) 1L is a rough road. Use your mentors/upperclassmen to get advice, insider info, outlines, etc. Dean Hutchinson is also a great resource!

5) Don't study all the time. Contrary to stereotypes, Duke Law people know how to have fun. We have parties and events that are incredibly fun and you get to watch the quiet ones in class dance on a table. Your mental health will thank you for putting down the book and getting out.

6) Speaking of mental health, Duke CAPS is amazing. It is not weak to talk to someone if you feel severely overwhelmed. It takes strength to take the initiative towards improving your being.

Hope this helps :)

Edit: In case someone in administration trolls the feed, my professor allowed any outside sources for the midterm, just not access to the internet. So don't expel me plz thx :D

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:40 am
by Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash
Anyway we can see tentative syllabi for 1L courses? Mostly I'm just trying to get a real book budget. I probably don't need to see what books are required just a general: "you have to pay the 1400$ Duke quotes" or "you can get away with half that"

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:45 am
by grades??
Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:Anyway we can see tentative syllabi for 1L courses? Mostly I'm just trying to get a real book budget. I probably don't need to see what books are required just a general: "you have to pay the 1400$ Duke quotes" or "you can get away with half that"


Not really. You will probably only find out what books you need a week or two before classes if you are lucky. During my 1l year, one section had a professor change 3 days before class and had to get a totally new book. But usually 1l casebooks run 200+, plus 40-50 for any supplement that might come with the casebook (not like hornbooks, but rather small updated books with newer cases). If you bought everything new, you are probably looking at 600-800 a semester (it could equally be true a semester costs 200, but 1l casebooks are stupidly expensive).

Re: Duke 1L (soon to be 2L) taking questions

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:03 pm
by SplitMyPants
i'd echo that $600-$800 estimate.

the good news is that it gets better. i think i totaled under $200 for all of 3L...
there are corners you can cut later (i.e., buying used, marked up books; renting books that you can't really mark up; or buying older editions) that, at least IMO, you shouldn't really look to do during 1L