IP with Computer Science + Mathematics Forum

[Anonymous User]

I was wondering, how hard would it be to get IP with Comp. Sci. + Mathematics if I attend Columbia Law School? UG GPA: 3.6x (top 10%). Work experience as an engineer with a major telecommunications company.

My degree isn't ABET-accredited (many comp. sci. programs aren't), which means I won't be able to sit for the patent bar directly. However, if I take one more physics class, I should be able to sit for the patent bar using one of the alternative options. If that doesn't pan out, would it be pointless for me to try IP without being able to sit for the patent bar? Also, if I decide not to pursue IP, would firms hold it against me if I tried to do something non-IP related?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[Anonymous User]

You should be fine for patent litigation.

I'd recommend that you take 1 physics course sometime later in your career so that you can get the patent bar credential. It may become very important in the future.

[09042014]

Firms won't really hold it against you if you decide to not do IP. But they may be skeptical.

You can do patent litigation most likely.

But a lot of IP firms or IP practices want patent bar eligibility. I'd get the extra class before law school just to say you are eligible.

[Agent]

Firms won't really hold it against you if you decide to not do IP. But they may be skeptical.

You can do patent litigation most likely.

But a lot of IP firms or IP practices want patent bar eligibility. I'd get the extra class before law school just to say you are eligible.

+1

[CyLaw]

Firms won't really hold it against you if you decide to not do IP. But they may be skeptical.

You can do patent litigation most likely.

But a lot of IP firms or IP practices want patent bar eligibility. I'd get the extra class before law school just to say you are eligible.

+1.

You double checked the ABET accreditation site just to make sure that your program was not accredited by either ABET or CSAB, right? From what I have heard second-hand from the PLI guys, Category B applications can take a long time to be approved.

Also, don't forget that a lot of the IP work with software is in copyright, which does not require patent bar eligibility.

ETA: I have a CS background (ABET accredited program) and I don't plan on doing IP, at least not directly.

[09042014]

Is a lot of the IP work in software copyright related? You don't need to be a lawyer to reg. the copyright, and I'd imagine litigation is fairly rare because who the fuck is purposely copying code?

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Thanks guys. I unfortunately won't be able to finish the physics class before law school because of work/volunteering. I'ma try to look into taking the physics class at Columbia if possible (definitely not during 1L though and not sure if they allow law students to take UG classes). One last question: for biglaw, would an IP or a non-IP gig be easier to land for someone with my background? My main worry is debt, and I honestly just want to pay it down ASAP via biglaw.

Appreciate the help.

@CyLaw: Yeah, my program is def. not ABET-accredited. I would have to get approved under Category B: Option 4, which would a combination of physics + comp. sci. classes. Since we have similar backgrounds, I'm curious, what kind of law are you looking at?

[09042014]

OP here.

Thanks guys. I unfortunately won't be able to finish the physics class before law school because of work/volunteering. I'ma try to look into taking the physics class at Columbia if possible (definitely not during 1L though). One last question: for biglaw, would an IP or a non-IP gig be easier to land for someone with my background? My main worry is debt, and I honestly just want to pay it down ASAP via biglaw.

Appreciate the help.

@CyLaw: Yeah, my program is def. not ABET-accredited. I would have to get approved under Category B: Option 4, which would a combination of physics + comp. sci. classes. Since we have similar backgrounds, I'm curious, what kind of law are you looking at?

What class do you need? You can take some super bullshit online class this summer.

[CyLaw]

Is a lot of the IP work in software copyright related? You don't need to be a lawyer to reg. the copyright, and I'd imagine litigation is fairly rare because who the fuck is purposely copying code?

TBH, I was thinking about it from the engineer stand point, not the lawyer standpoint. Maybe not at firms, but in house counsel will need to deal with trade secret and copyright issues. Granted, in-house jobs are way down the road. I think you are right that copyright litigation is not big in the software industry because software patents are more powerful.

[CyLaw]

@CyLaw: Yeah, my program is def. not ABET-accredited. I would have to get approved under Category B: Option 4, which would a combination of physics + comp. sci. classes. Since we have similar backgrounds, I'm curious, what kind of law are you looking at?

I did CS and math in undergrad, but I was military prior to that. My main interest areas are national security and cyber-security.

With respect to the physics class, there is a guy at my school with a pure math background (but was a software engineer before law school) that is completing all his physics work for Category B right now. I may remember wrong, but I think he didn't have much of an issue interviewing for IP jobs.

When interviewing, I would keep your mind open to IP even if you think you may not want to do it. But, I don't think one would be harder than the other with respect to general practice firms.

[r6_philly]

I did CS and math in undergrad, but I was military prior to that. My main interest areas are national security and cyber-security.

Just curious, what's the career outlook in cyber-security? I have a lot of interest in the topic in ug and from WE, but have no idea about any legal work in the area.

[CyLaw]

I did CS and math in undergrad, but I was military prior to that. My main interest areas are national security and cyber-security.

Just curious, what's the career outlook in cyber-security? I have a lot of interest in the topic in ug and from WE, but have no idea about any legal work in the area.

It's mostly public sector work, but there is an increasing practice in the private sector. While the practice area is increasing, my personal guess is that it will never, ever be that large and probably won't be a smart group for someone looking to make partner at firm. But there are lateral opportunities both in-house (Google, MSFT, Apple, startups, defense contractors) and with state and fed government.

I think in practice the work breaks down into either consumer privacy issues or public-private cooperation issues with both law enforcement and intelligence. The work could be on privacy policys and data retention requirements. Some work is in dealing with computer crime and exonomic espionage act cases. There is some work with handling NSLs or FISA warrants in both the private and public sector. There is a lot of contracting work within the defense industry and in dealing with tech transfer agreements between public and private sectors. There is also a lot of policy work in both the private and public sectors. I'm just starting to explore the legal side of all this, so I can't really say for certain what the lawyer work will look like. I hope this summer to get some more experience in the private sector side of the work, so that I can better contrast it with the work I know about from the public sector.

I imagine the field will likely expand a little with the new hype in cyber security, but again I personally don't see it getting that big of a field.

ETA: One helpful source to learning with legal work in the field is to follow organizations like the Center on National Security at Fordham Law which post cyber news in their Cyber Brief. Also, join the email list for the ABA's standing committee on law and national security. They have a lot of cyber news and events on the cyber world. Personally, my career goal is something like working in the GC office of one of the defense agencies.

[CyLaw]

Is a lot of the IP work in software copyright related? You don't need to be a lawyer to reg. the copyright, and I'd imagine litigation is fairly rare because who the fuck is purposely copying code?

TBH, I was thinking about it from the engineer stand point, not the lawyer standpoint. Maybe not at firms, but in house counsel will need to deal with trade secret and copyright issues. Granted, in-house jobs are way down the road. I think you are right that copyright litigation is not big in the software industry because software patents are more powerful.

Of course, the current news has a perfect example of how a copyright suit would come in the software field. The current Google-Oracle case is a copyright infringement suit. But I would agree that is not likely the majority of cases.

[MoonshineJoe]

I did CS and math in undergrad, but I was military prior to that. My main interest areas are national security and cyber-security.

Just curious, what's the career outlook in cyber-security? I have a lot of interest in the topic in ug and from WE, but have no idea about any legal work in the area.

It's mostly public sector work, but there is an increasing practice in the private sector. While the practice area is increasing, my personal guess is that it will never, ever be that large and probably won't be a smart group for someone looking to make partner at firm. But there are lateral opportunities both in-house (Google, MSFT, Apple, startups, defense contractors) and with state and fed government.

I think in practice the work breaks down into either consumer privacy issues or public-private cooperation issues with both law enforcement and intelligence. The work could be on privacy policys and data retention requirements. Some work is in dealing with computer crime and exonomic espionage act cases. There is some work with handling NSLs or FISA warrants in both the private and public sector. There is a lot of contracting work within the defense industry and in dealing with tech transfer agreements between public and private sectors. There is also a lot of policy work in both the private and public sectors. I'm just starting to explore the legal side of all this, so I can't really say for certain what the lawyer work will look like. I hope this summer to get some more experience in the private sector side of the work, so that I can better contrast it with the work I know about from the public sector.

I imagine the field will likely expand a little with the new hype in cyber security, but again I personally don't see it getting that big of a field.

ETA: One helpful source to learning with legal work in the field is to follow organizations like the Center on National Security at Fordham Law which post cyber news in their Cyber Brief. Also, join the email list for the ABA's standing committee on law and national security. They have a lot of cyber news and events on the cyber world. Personally, my career goal is something like working in the GC office of one of the defense agencies.

I would note there is a lot of advocacy work in this field right now as well. There are a number of pieces of major cybersecurity legislation moving through Congress. The House just passed CISPA (H.R. 3523) and the Senate is considering a comprehensive bill from Sen. Lieberman (S. 2105) and an "Republican alternative" from Sen. McCain (S. 2151). Everyone from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to EPIC, and all the think-tanks in between, are weighing in.

For Cylaw, I am interested what your plans are to practice in this field. Are you going to a privacy group at a firm, DHS, DoJ's national security group, something else? Feel free to PM me if you would rather talk about it that way.

[CyLaw]

PMing.

[notstevedoocy]

Consider yourself fortunate as those credentials will not only make IP classes much easier, but a prospective employer will look very favorably on that background. You can count on better job prospects and a higher starting salary than your classmates.

I'm a fellow IP law student but came from the liberal arts background where it was much harder to break into IP law.

Please consider taking a course in e-discovery as well while you are in law school and maybe even getting a certification or two. It's such a new and growing field in law you can consider yourself employable anywhere with those credentials.

Haha. Basically, its good to be you

[jim-green]

I already took the patent bar exam, but have similar questions to the OP and hoping you can help.
1. If I am a registered patent agent, will this help in interviewing for patent litigation jobs? i thought it will help only for patent prosecution, because litigation is open to everyone.
2. I have a green card (permanent resident) not citizen yet, but will be by mid to end 2013 hopefully. How does this factor into the IP security positions (public sector) that are discussed above?