Boalt outlook for IP Forum

[Anonymous User]

Incoming class of 2015 here, trying to get a sense of what my employment outlook is. Tech background (EE/ME/Bio-PhD) interested in patent litigation. No interest in prosecution.

1. Entering 2L OCI next year, what class standing will likely be IP-secure with a tech background? If I screw up (as I pretty much might) and get all Ps, do I have any shot at big law whatsoever based on my tech background?
2. How does Boalt do for IP-oriented clerkships (I'm thinking Federal Circuit and a bunch of other patent-heavy districts)? This is moot if I land all-Ps, but I'm trying to understand if I shot myself in the foot with Boalt when I could've gone to Chicago (albeit paying substantially more money)

People at peer schools (Duke, Virginia, Michigan, etc.) please feel free to chime in with your respective schools for this same question.

[DBishops]

It was funny at ASW how everyone regurgitated the US News ranking of Boalt's IP program, but couldn't tell of any specifics or even refer to somebody who is taking advantage of it.

[r6_philly]

Go hustle at Loyola Patent Interview Program, you are probably golden. If you have work experience and/or good industry connections, even better. Outlook for prosecution is probably much better than lit though. Not saying lit is bad, but prosecution is just better. I'd venture to say all Ps would be ok for something if you have good ug/g grades, have WE, and good interpersonal skills.

[bracketbuster]

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[bracketbuster]

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[Dignan]

Incoming class of 2015 here, trying to get a sense of what my employment outlook is. Tech background (EE/ME/Bio-PhD) interested in patent litigation. No interest in prosecution.

1. Entering 2L OCI next year, what class standing will likely be IP-secure with a tech background? If I screw up (as I pretty much might) and get all Ps, do I have any shot at big law whatsoever based on my tech background?

If you have a tech background—and particularly if you have a PhD—you definitely have a shot a big law with all Ps out of Boalt. Even when OCI hiring was in the tank two years ago, EE/ME/BIO PhDs out of Boalt seemed to have no problem finding big law jobs even with mediocre (or worse) grades.

Unless you have a social disorder, you're probably "IP-secure" no matter what. Obviously, better grades will you give you more options, but you likely won't need them to get a big law offer from somewhere.

2. How does Boalt do for IP-oriented clerkships (I'm thinking Federal Circuit and a bunch of other patent-heavy districts)? This is moot if I land all-Ps, but I'm trying to understand if I shot myself in the foot with Boalt when I could've gone to Chicago (albeit paying substantially more money)

The IP profs at Boalt are incredibly well connected. It seems like they're personal friends with over half the judges on the federal circuit. I know of three students at Boalt who will be clerking on the Federal Circuit because a judge called the professor—usually, it's the other way around—asking for the professor to recommend a student for a clerkship.

Given your background, and given your interests, you did not make a mistake in choosing Boalt over Chicago.

[sky7]

Incoming class of 2015 here, trying to get a sense of what my employment outlook is. Tech background (EE/ME/Bio-PhD) interested in patent litigation. No interest in prosecution.

1. Entering 2L OCI next year, what class standing will likely be IP-secure with a tech background? If I screw up (as I pretty much might) and get all Ps, do I have any shot at big law whatsoever based on my tech background?

If you have a tech background—and particularly if you have a PhD—you definitely have a shot a big law with all Ps out of Boalt. Even when OCI hiring was in the tank two years ago, EE/ME/BIO PhDs out of Boalt seemed to have no problem finding big law jobs even with mediocre (or worse) grades.

Unless you have a social disorder, you're probably "IP-secure" no matter what. Obviously, better grades will you give you more options, but you likely won't need them to get a big law offer from somewhere.

2. How does Boalt do for IP-oriented clerkships (I'm thinking Federal Circuit and a bunch of other patent-heavy districts)? This is moot if I land all-Ps, but I'm trying to understand if I shot myself in the foot with Boalt when I could've gone to Chicago (albeit paying substantially more money)

The IP profs at Boalt are incredibly well connected. It seems like they're personal friends with over half the judges on the federal circuit. I know of three students at Boalt who will be clerking on the Federal Circuit because a judge called the professor—usually, it's the other way around—asking for the professor to recommend a student for a clerkship.

Given your background, and given your interests, you did not make a mistake in choosing Boalt over Chicago.

Okay - this is going to sound ridiculous. Okay, it may even be a little ridiculous. But if you really want to clerk on the Fed Circ, I'd go to GW. With stats like yours, I assume you could get a full ride at GW. I've had Judge Rader for 2 classes, and he pushes for GW clerks. Further the IP curriculum is amazing with incredible professors.

I'm not saying that GW is anything like your other options, which are far more prestigious all around. But for IP and the Fed Cir, it's pretty awesome, especially because Judge Rader is almost LOOKING for law students to make friends. If you could go to GW for free, and I had your aspirations, I'd strongly consider it.

[bracketbuster]

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[Dignan]

I'm not saying that GW is anything like your other options, which are far more prestigious all around. But for IP and the Fed Cir, it's pretty awesome, especially because Judge Rader is almost LOOKING for law students to make friends. If you could go to GW for free, and I had your aspirations, I'd strongly consider it.

I don't doubt that Judge Rader (and other judges on the Federal Circuit) like to hire GW students. Here's the thing, though: you're going to have to very well in law school—whether it's at Boalt, Chicago, or GW—to have a shot at a federal circuit clerkship. You should not choose a school based on federal clerkship opportunities. It's fine to keep it as an idea in the back of your mind, but don't base your decision on it. If, one year from now, you're sitting at GW with median or below-median grades, you're going to really wish you were at Boalt, Chicago, or Penn.

[Tanicius]

Incoming class of 2015 here, trying to get a sense of what my employment outlook is. Tech background (EE/ME/Bio-PhD) interested in patent litigation. No interest in prosecution.

1. Entering 2L OCI next year, what class standing will likely be IP-secure with a tech background? If I screw up (as I pretty much might) and get all Ps, do I have any shot at big law whatsoever based on my tech background?
2. How does Boalt do for IP-oriented clerkships (I'm thinking Federal Circuit and a bunch of other patent-heavy districts)? This is moot if I land all-Ps, but I'm trying to understand if I shot myself in the foot with Boalt when I could've gone to Chicago (albeit paying substantially more money)

People at peer schools (Duke, Virginia, Michigan, etc.) please feel free to chime in with your respective schools for this same question.

Pretty much everyone I know who has a tech background got a firm job as a 1L this year.

[r6_philly]

I see your TLS profile says you're at Penn.

Can you please share how you believe Penn is doing for IP lit big law? How deep do firms go in your class ranks specifically for IP lit? And where do people end up going? Do 1L class have jobs lined up? Last but not least, do people with tech background but poor 1L grades have jobs? By poor I'm not referring to dead bottom. I'm thinking more like bottom 15-20%.

Everyone I know who wants a decent IP lit job gets one. I obviously don't know all the people, but we do have an IP group and I don't hear anything negative about job prospects. Almost everyone I know is going to V100 firms. Sample size isn't large though, because Penn is mostly corporate and general litigation.

1Ls sounds relaxed about jobs. We don't have this year's stats yet, but anecdotal evidence suggest that there are way more 1L SA this year. I don't really feel like it's an issue getting anything. I haven't heard any summer job chatter for a while. They are multiple openings for RAs, which suggest that people mostly have other things lined up.

We don't calculate GPA or publish ranks. From what I know, most people have a mix of grades. So without official ranks, it's really hard to know whether you are 33% or 66%. I think the middle third is so packed it's hard to know for sure if slightly above median (objectively) means anything more than slightly below. As for the bottom of the class, I don't know, since OCI hasn't happened yet. But I can't imagine people with poor grades but good tech background can't land something, absent some other issues. There are many smaller boutiques that don't usually get to hire Penn talents (a couple of them right here in Philly) so I can't imagine they can't hustle for one of those jobs.

Overall I feel confident that people with tech background at Penn have a leg up on the rest of the class if the goal is to get an IP job. And since Penn already arguably has a toe length over its peers on biglaw hiring, you can infer the IP forks will do even better. Another thing about Penn, a lot of Pharma companies are very close to Penn, so life sciences is big here. Akin Gump has their life science group right here in Philly and actively recruits at Penn (we had them come to do a recruiting presentation for the IP group this semester).

That said, if it costs you less to go to Boalt, then go there.

[r6_philly]

Pretty much everyone I know who has a tech background got a firm job as a 1L this year.

At GP firms or boutiques? Are these firms they wouldn't mind returning to?

[Dignan]

Pretty much everyone I know who has a tech background got a firm job as a 1L this year.

At GP firms or boutiques? Are these firms they wouldn't mind returning to?

Most of the Boalt 1Ls I know are headed to IP practice groups in GP firms; a couple are headed to boutiques.

[Tanicius]

Pretty much everyone I know who has a tech background got a firm job as a 1L this year.

At GP firms or boutiques? Are these firms they wouldn't mind returning to?

Most of the 1L summers I know of are at Mofo, Munger, or Gibson. If OP has a PhD, it will not matter what his grades are; he is likely to get a two-summer-long offer at firms as long as he does his job search homework and applies on time.

[sky7]

Pretty much everyone I know who has a tech background got a firm job as a 1L this year.

At GP firms or boutiques? Are these firms they wouldn't mind returning to?

Most of the Boalt 1Ls I know are headed to IP practice groups in GP firms; a couple are headed to boutiques.

The salient question for the OP is what percentage of those people are going lit, and what percentage are going prosecution?

[r6_philly]

I don't know anyone who got prosecution. All lit.

[sky7]

I'm not saying that GW is anything like your other options, which are far more prestigious all around. But for IP and the Fed Cir, it's pretty awesome, especially because Judge Rader is almost LOOKING for law students to make friends. If you could go to GW for free, and I had your aspirations, I'd strongly consider it.

I don't doubt that Judge Rader (and other judges on the Federal Circuit) like to hire GW students. Here's the thing, though: you're going to have to very well in law school—whether it's at Boalt, Chicago, or GW—to have a shot at a federal circuit clerkship. You should not choose a school based on federal clerkship opportunities. It's fine to keep it as an idea in the back of your mind, but don't base your decision on it. If, one year from now, you're sitting at GW with median or below-median grades, you're going to really wish you were at Boalt, Chicago, or Penn.

First, GW is IPSECURE (I'm the posterchild for this). Maybe not for litigation (although our IP Moot Court competition seems to be a feeder to GP firms), but if you have a tech background, you can get a market job at least doing prosecution. If you combine that with no debt, I'd say you wouldn't be regretting your choice. Also, I know other students that work for the Federal Circuit during the year. Not a bad option to have.

However, I don't generally disagree with you - if you are gunning for the Federal Circuit, and a job in lit, I'd rather be from Boalt or Chicago.

[Dignan]

Pretty much everyone I know who has a tech background got a firm job as a 1L this year.

At GP firms or boutiques? Are these firms they wouldn't mind returning to?

Most of the Boalt 1Ls I know are headed to IP practice groups in GP firms; a couple are headed to boutiques.

The salient question for the OP is what percentage of those people are going lit, and what percentage are going prosecution?

I don't know any Boalt 1Ls who are doing patent prosecution. In fact, I don't know any Boalt 2Ls who are doing patent prosecution either (though there could be a couple out there). Given the firms that the 1Ls are headed to, I assume that most are doing lit, but I suppose a few could be doing transactional work as well.