0L Prep

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Ded Precedent
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0L Prep

Postby Ded Precedent » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:00 pm

So far I have:

Delaney “how to do your best on law school exams”
Delaney “learning legal reasoning”
Getting to Maybe
Emanuel’s First Year Questions & Answers
Chemerinsky “Principles and Policies”

Anything else I should look into getting? In what order should I read the above?

tyty

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kalvano
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby kalvano » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:28 pm

Ded Precedent wrote:Anything else I should look into getting?


A book on how to use the "search" feature of the website.

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby fundamentallybroken » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 pm

I keep telling people, the only 0L prep you need is these:

http://www.amazon.com/Kindergarten-Sight-Flash-Cards-ebook/dp/B005QOU8E8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1335739365&sr=8-9

Anything else is just a waste of your last free summer. Ever.

(Seriously.)

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Ded Precedent
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby Ded Precedent » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:40 pm

kalvano wrote:
Ded Precedent wrote:Anything else I should look into getting?


A book on how to use the "search" feature of the website.

I know it's been discussed before but I was trying to get a consensus on these specific books and if there's a logical order that I should be reading them in. Please stop ruining my TLS experience and see your way out of my thread.

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Ded Precedent
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby Ded Precedent » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:41 pm

fundamentallybroken wrote:I keep telling people, the only 0L prep you need is these:

http://www.amazon.com/Kindergarten-Sight-Flash-Cards-ebook/dp/B005QOU8E8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1335739365&sr=8-9

Anything else is just a waste of your last free summer. Ever.

(Seriously.)

Ordered.

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kalvano
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby kalvano » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:53 pm

Ded Precedent wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Ded Precedent wrote:Anything else I should look into getting?


A book on how to use the "search" feature of the website.

I know it's been discussed before but I was trying to get a consensus on these specific books and if there's a logical order that I should be reading them in. Please stop ruining my TLS experience and see your way out of my thread.



Firstly, 0L prep has been discussed numerous, numerous times, including the specific books you have mentioned.

Secondly, there is an entire thread stickied at the top of this forum discussing this exact issue in total depth.

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Ded Precedent
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby Ded Precedent » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:56 pm

kalvano wrote:
Ded Precedent wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Ded Precedent wrote:Anything else I should look into getting?


A book on how to use the "search" feature of the website.

I know it's been discussed before but I was trying to get a consensus on these specific books and if there's a logical order that I should be reading them in. Please stop ruining my TLS experience and see your way out of my thread.



Firstly, 0L prep has been discussed numerous, numerous times, including the specific books you have mentioned.

Secondly, there is an entire thread stickied at the top of this forum discussing this exact issue in total depth.

Yes I know, I read it and was not satisfied so I have created a new thread to seek out new advice.


Now as I said, please remove thyself.

raskolnikov32
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby raskolnikov32 » Tue May 01, 2012 12:01 am

Depending on how much time you want to put in, I would recommend the following:

1. Law School Confidential: it's not great, but it gives you a nice, light introduction to the law school experience, expectations, etc.

2. All of the "success in law school" threads on TLS including: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=77628

3. Getting to Maybe: This is a clear and helpful guide to exam analysis and policy issues.

4. Examples & Explanations for each of my 1L Semester 1 substantive classes: A lot of people would advise against this, but I would recommend it. Even though you don't grasp everything and much of what you read won't be covered by your professor, reading these will nevertheless give you a nice base in the substantive material.

It seems that the LEEWS material is popular too, but I didn't want to shell out for it and have done fine with the above. I bought the Delaney "How to Excel.." book, but didn't read the whole thing since I felt Getting to Maybe was enough in the exam-taking department.

kaiser
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby kaiser » Tue May 01, 2012 12:01 am

If you read any thread on 0L prep, you will see that it is routinely dismissed as a poor idea for many reasons (discussed over and over in said threads).

Its a bad idea, and a waste of time. Worst of all is that it takes time away from other possible productive uses that would actually give you an advantage on your classmates (which you can find by searching through the past threads on this topic). In law school, you will often hear the phrase "don't lose the forest for the trees". Let me be the first one to offer you that advice now.

raskolnikov32
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby raskolnikov32 » Tue May 01, 2012 12:23 am

kaiser wrote:If you read any thread on 0L prep, you will see that it is routinely dismissed as a poor idea for many reasons (discussed over and over in said threads).

Its a bad idea, and a waste of time. Worst of all is that it takes time away from other possible productive uses that would actually give you an advantage on your classmates (which you can find by searching through the past threads on this topic). In law school, you will often hear the phrase "don't lose the forest for the trees". Let me be the first one to offer you that advice now.


I would respectfully disagree. I'm definitely not suggesting anyone start outlining or take a stab at their professor's old exams. But, I don't see any harm in thumbing through a few books over the next 3-4 months to build a good foundation and calm any nerves that would come with feeling unprepared. This reading can be accomplished with minimal effort during your lunch break, quiet weeknights, etc.

The touchstone of 0L prep is to take the material with a grain of salt and realize that your professor's opinion trumps everything you read over the summer. But so long as you keep that in mind, I would say that 0L prep is a good idea and a productive use of time.

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YYZ
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby YYZ » Tue May 01, 2012 12:59 am

GTM is about all you need for exam prep, but in reality, after taking your first round of exams, you'll answer the questions in the manner suggested by your profs.

1L of a Ride was my favorite law school prep book. Also, I suggest working on your typing speed and accuracy. That will help you in taking good notes and typing exam answers quickly.

bartleby
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby bartleby » Tue May 01, 2012 1:03 am

Exercise a lot. Get a real healthy diet goin'

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JamMasterJ
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby JamMasterJ » Tue May 01, 2012 1:13 am

Getting to Maybe, and then maybe like Harry Potter or Game of Thrones

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Dany
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby Dany » Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 am

You've got to be kidding.

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Ded Precedent
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby Ded Precedent » Tue May 01, 2012 2:40 am

kaiser wrote:If you read any thread on 0L prep, you will see that it is routinely dismissed as a poor idea for many reasons (discussed over and over in said threads).

The reasons given to skip prep are dumb. Go have fun? No thank you. I loathe fun. It will confuse me? I mean I'm only a lowly 0L but I think I might be able to recognize that laws can be interpreted and argued in different ways and that professors will have their own interpretations which they will expect you to know for the exam.

Also, I'm extremely neurotic about this sort of stuff as a lot of other people have expressed in all of the 0L prep threads this will be a way for me to calm my nerves, even if all of this is only a placebo effect. I'm basing most of my approach off this thread http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=157251 just because it seems to most closely resemble my past neurotic over exertion and I just know how I am and how I approach most new things that are unfamiliar. I understand this goes against TLS recommendations but sometimes you have to just go rogue and do what you think will help you the most. So here I go again on my own, going down the only road I've ever known. Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone and I've made up my mind.



I ain't wasting no more time

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bceagles182
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby bceagles182 » Tue May 01, 2012 3:49 am

YYZ wrote:I suggest working on your typing speed and accuracy. That will help you in taking good notes and typing exam answers quickly.



If you are absolutely dead set on 0L prep, this is probably the most useful thing you can do. This coming from a 2L who finished in the top 8% and made LR.

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cinephile
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby cinephile » Tue May 01, 2012 9:05 am

But you don't even know who your professors will be or what they'll cover. Like I have a con law class where we've studied nothing but the 14th Amendment. So if you studied anything else, it'd just be a waste of your time.

But anyway, if you really want to prepare ahead of time, work or your resume and cover letter(s). Maybe look into places you'd want to apply come December. That way you can focus on exams in November since you've already got your mail merge set up.

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby fundamentallybroken » Tue May 01, 2012 9:40 am

cinephile wrote:But you don't even know who your professors will be or what they'll cover. Like I have a con law class where we've studied nothing but the 14th Amendment. So if you studied anything else, it'd just be a waste of your time.

But anyway, if you really want to prepare ahead of time, work or your resume and cover letter(s). Maybe look into places you'd want to apply come December. That way you can focus on exams in November since you've already got your mail merge set up.


And in my Con Law, we've stayed almost entirely away from good old 14, and focused on the 2nd, with bits of Commerce thrown in (please kill me.) Things vary so much from professor-to-professor, and school-to-school, that too much prep (read, beyond GTM, or, my favorite, Planet Law School) is just a huge waste of time.

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kalvano
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby kalvano » Tue May 01, 2012 10:11 am

Also, Getting To Maybe is pretty useless. "Argue both sides"....gee, thanks.

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Birdnals
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby Birdnals » Tue May 01, 2012 10:16 am

Ded Precedent wrote:The reasons given to skip prep are dumb. Go have fun? No thank you. I loathe fun. It will confuse me? I mean I'm only a lowly 0L but I think I might be able to recognize that laws can be interpreted and argued in different ways and that professors will have their own interpretations which they will expect you to know for the exam.



Doesn’t listen to advice, arrogant intellectual, and gunning before even starting school… It is like you are a caricature of the person that makes everybody hate law school/lawyers.

kaiser
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby kaiser » Tue May 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Ded Precedent wrote:
kaiser wrote:If you read any thread on 0L prep, you will see that it is routinely dismissed as a poor idea for many reasons (discussed over and over in said threads).

The reasons given to skip prep are dumb. Go have fun? No thank you. I loathe fun. It will confuse me? I mean I'm only a lowly 0L but I think I might be able to recognize that laws can be interpreted and argued in different ways and that professors will have their own interpretations which they will expect you to know for the exam.

Also, I'm extremely neurotic about this sort of stuff as a lot of other people have expressed in all of the 0L prep threads this will be a way for me to calm my nerves, even if all of this is only a placebo effect. I'm basing most of my approach off this thread http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=157251 just because it seems to most closely resemble my past neurotic over exertion and I just know how I am and how I approach most new things that are unfamiliar. I understand this goes against TLS recommendations but sometimes you have to just go rogue and do what you think will help you the most. So here I go again on my own, going down the only road I've ever known. Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone and I've made up my mind.



I ain't wasting no more time


So you have both failed to actually look up what the advice would be, and can simultaneously dismiss the advice as "dumb" (which acknowledging that you mind has been made up in the face of advice of those who actually have experience on the matter). Talk about a poor and arrogant mindset and attitude that is bound to be severely humbled in a matter of months.

The funniest thing is that you think it is going "rogue" or against the grain. Thats where you have it totally backwards. Almost EVERY neurotic kid like you will do the EXACT SAME THING. You aren't going against the grain or going rogue. You are doing precisely what your neurotic mindset is telling you to do (i.e. picking out the first tree in front of you and grasping to it way too hard). Thats the definition of losing the forest for the trees, and you are, from the very first step, failing to see the bigger picture.

Quite the contrary, the kids who truly go against the grain, and go "rogue" are the ones who are one step ahead of your mindset. They realize that most type-A's will grab for prep books and try to substantively prep in advance. The true "rogue" will know and understand what his competition will do (whereas you are currently a step behind the hypothetical kid I'm describing). The real "rogue" is the one who will network in advance with alums, learn about law school exams (rather than substance), make cover letter temples, format and re-format resumes, work on a system of organization and prioritization, get better/faster at typing, take time to set out clear goals and objectives for law school rather than running a blind marathon, etc. All of those things can and very likely will yield tangible benefits, some in very substantial ways. Substantive prep yields little to no benefit, takes an exorbitant amount of time, and takes time away from doing the other things mentioned above.

Not sure why exactly I'm helping you out and sharing with you actual ways to get a leg up on your classmates. You don't deserve them with the attitude you have, and I usually only share that info with those who I feel actually are "rogues" who go against the grain. Thats most certainly not you. Unless you change your attitude a bit, you are bound to just be another one in the pack.

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bigeast03
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby bigeast03 » Tue May 01, 2012 3:21 pm

kaiser wrote:So you have both failed to actually look up what the advice would be, and can simultaneously dismiss the advice as "dumb" (which acknowledging that you mind has been made up in the face of advice of those who actually have experience on the matter). Talk about a poor and arrogant mindset and attitude that is bound to be severely humbled in a matter of months.

The funniest thing is that you think it is going "rogue" or against the grain. Thats where you have it totally backwards. Almost EVERY neurotic kid like you will do the EXACT SAME THING. You aren't going against the grain or going rogue. You are doing precisely what your neurotic mindset is telling you to do (i.e. picking out the first tree in front of you and grasping to it way too hard). Thats the definition of losing the forest for the trees, and you are, from the very first step, failing to see the bigger picture.

Quite the contrary, the kids who truly go against the grain, and go "rogue" are the ones who are one step ahead of your mindset. They realize that most type-A's will grab for prep books and try to substantively prep in advance. The true "rogue" will know and understand what his competition will do (whereas you are currently a step behind the hypothetical kid I'm describing). The real "rogue" is the one who will network in advance with alums, learn about law school exams (rather than substance), make cover letter temples, format and re-format resumes, work on a system of organization and prioritization, get better/faster at typing, take time to set out clear goals and objectives for law school rather than running a blind marathon, etc. All of those things can and very likely will yield tangible benefits, some in very substantial ways. Substantive prep yields little to no benefit, takes an exorbitant amount of time, and takes time away from doing the other things mentioned above.

Not sure why exactly I'm helping you out and sharing with you actual ways to get a leg up on your classmates. You don't deserve them with the attitude you have, and I usually only share that info with those who I feel actually are "rogues" who go against the grain. Thats most certainly not you. Unless you change your attitude a bit, you are bound to just be another one in the pack.


Just wanted to say that this seems like exceedingly good advice, and as a 0L I definitely appreciate this.

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rayiner
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby rayiner » Tue May 01, 2012 4:03 pm

Ded Precedent wrote:
kaiser wrote:If you read any thread on 0L prep, you will see that it is routinely dismissed as a poor idea for many reasons (discussed over and over in said threads).

The reasons given to skip prep are dumb. Go have fun? No thank you. I loathe fun. It will confuse me? I mean I'm only a lowly 0L but I think I might be able to recognize that laws can be interpreted and argued in different ways and that professors will have their own interpretations which they will expect you to know for the exam.


Stop being wrong.

People aren't telling you to go have fun because they're slackers. They're telling you to go have fun to stave off burn-out. A good amount of 1L is about how well you manage your pace so that you hit your peak right at the end of November around finals.

An hour of studying in September and an hour of studying in November take the same amount of energy, but an hour of studying in September is probably about 1% as effective as an hour of studying in November. The whole point of September and October is to learn how to learn, so you learn the material the right way.

People aren't telling you not to study substantive material during the summer because they think you're dumb and will get confused. They're doing it because they've been through 1L and know that you don't know how to study like a law student.

You say "I think I might be able to recognize that laws can be interpreted and argued in different ways" but fail to realize that "laws" in 1L aren't laid out for you like 1, 2, 3. It's not like you're thinking "the professor interprets law 1 this way, while the 0L prep I did interprets it this way." A big part of the struggle of 1L is just identifying the boundaries of 1, 2, and 3. The concepts bleed into each other and it can be very confusing to learn the same material from sources that draw the boundaries of each concept slightly differently. Also, professors tend to be pretty good about testing only the issues they covered on the exam. Learning about rules that your professor didn't' cover can cause you to see issues in the hypothetical that are not on the grading rubric and which you'll get no points for answering.

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Chupavida
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby Chupavida » Tue May 01, 2012 4:14 pm

.
Last edited by Chupavida on Sun May 27, 2012 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ded Precedent
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Re: 0L Prep

Postby Ded Precedent » Tue May 01, 2012 9:35 pm

Birdnals wrote:
Ded Precedent wrote:The reasons given to skip prep are dumb. Go have fun? No thank you. I loathe fun. It will confuse me? I mean I'm only a lowly 0L but I think I might be able to recognize that laws can be interpreted and argued in different ways and that professors will have their own interpretations which they will expect you to know for the exam.



Doesn’t listen to advice, arrogant intellectual, and gunning before even starting school… It is like you are a caricature of the person that makes everybody hate law school/lawyers.

WE ARE LEARNING SO MUCH ABOUT EACH OTHER IN THIS THREAD! ENOUGH ABOUT ME LET'S TALK ABOUT YOU!




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