0L needing some advice

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futurejdgirl
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0L needing some advice

Postby futurejdgirl » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:24 pm

I really want to be in DC or New York.

Anyways, I recently got accepted to American and I'm excited about it! I applied to their dual degree program MA in International Affairs and JD. I would love to do it but I haven't had any response from the graduate school yet, just the law school.

Do you guys think I can pull off transferring from American to Georgetown or NYU? Those have always been my dream schools. At the same time, if I don't get in, I feel like I would still be at a great school for international law and affairs. American is just at the edge of being a tier-1 school, plus I'm not sure how higher ranked law schools see its legal education.


Thoughts and advice are much appreciated!

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NYC Law
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby NYC Law » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:26 pm

Don't post this here

Read this - viewtopic.php?f=27&t=170597

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futurejdgirl
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby futurejdgirl » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:28 pm

My bad. I guess it is true that it's all dependent on first year grades.

Thanks for the link

mighttransfer
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby mighttransfer » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:29 pm

NYC Law wrote:Don't post this here

Read this - http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=170597


This. And how could anybody have any clue as to whether you'll be able to successfully transfer to GULC or NYU?

concurrent fork
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby concurrent fork » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:51 pm

0L transfer prospects AND international law in the same thread.

Bravo.

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futurejdgirl
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby futurejdgirl » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:16 pm

NYC Law posted the link to the thread without bashing me for asking a question that I thought could be appropriately answered, even though I knew it was highly speculative. Thanks for your bitchy responses though, very informative and helpful.

It's absolutely hilarious when people respond rudely on a message board. Is this what you do to relieve stress? Post bitchy replies on a law school forum board? Your life must be so exciting.

I don't appreciate the sarcasm at my genuine question and I already apologized for posting without reading the main thread. Your post is and remains unnecessary, but it was your time wasted, not mine :)

Anyone who is an admin/mod or whatever, feel free to close this thread.

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spleenworship
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby spleenworship » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:40 pm

futurejdgirl wrote:NYC Law posted the link to the thread without bashing me for asking a question that I thought could be appropriately answered, even though I knew it was highly speculative. Thanks for your bitchy responses though, very informative and helpful.

It's absolutely hilarious when people respond rudely on a message board. Is this what you do to relieve stress? Post bitchy replies on a law school forum board? Your life must be so exciting.

I don't appreciate the sarcasm at my genuine question and I already apologized for posting without reading the main thread. Your post is and remains unnecessary, but it was your time wasted, not mine :)

Anyone who is an admin/mod or whatever, feel free to close this thread.


You need to develop a thick skin or law school is going to be no fun for you. These dicks/bitches are very much like your future classmates.

Your post was a waste of the average law students time except for the lulz which fork kindly supplied. You need to not post in the student and grad forum as a 0L unless you have an amazing reason.

JR1988
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby JR1988 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:54 pm

futurejdgirl wrote:NYC Law posted the link to the thread without bashing me for asking a question that I thought could be appropriately answered, even though I knew it was highly speculative. Thanks for your bitchy responses though, very informative and helpful.

It's absolutely hilarious when people respond rudely on a message board. Is this what you do to relieve stress? Post bitchy replies on a law school forum board? Your life must be so exciting.

I don't appreciate the sarcasm at my genuine question and I already apologized for posting without reading the main thread. Your post is and remains unnecessary, but it was your time wasted, not mine :)

Anyone who is an admin/mod or whatever, feel free to close this thread.


Well what the fuck did you expect?

Ask a stupid question, and you're going to get a stupid answer.

Oh, and, GTFO 0L

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traehekat
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby traehekat » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:03 pm

JR1988 wrote:Oh, and, GTFO 0L


Little inappropriate, don't you think?

OP, check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transferapps/ (you have actually join the group, but it takes 1 minute). That should give you an idea of how well you will have to do to transfer to NYU/GULC.

JR1988
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby JR1988 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:58 pm

traehekat wrote:
JR1988 wrote:Oh, and, GTFO 0L


Little inappropriate, don't you think?

OP, check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transferapps/ (you have actually join the group, but it takes 1 minute). That should give you an idea of how well you will have to do to transfer to NYU/GULC.


Yes, had I been being serious. I'll make sure my facetiousness is more noticeable from now on.

However, the earlier portions of my post weren't facetious. It was a rather dumb question on OP's part.

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futurejdgirl
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby futurejdgirl » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:30 am

I'll be sure to censor and withhold my questions from now on, for your convenience. It must have been so inexplicably hard for you to read through my torturous, long post and subsequently think of such a creative and bitchy response. Really, I applaud your originality. Why are you still posting on this thread again?


Also, thanks for the link to the yahoo groups, traehekat. Much appreciated.

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TTRansfer
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby TTRansfer » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:47 am

Just do a bunch of searches, too. You should find out whatever you need to know via Google and TLS Search

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:59 am

1) It will be difficult to transfer to either. I imagine at the very least you would need to be top 10%, but probably would have to be top 5% (or better). Depending on your GPA, it is much easier (and predictable) to hold on off on law school for now, attain a higher score on the LSAT, and reapply next year than it would be to get the kind of grades you need to transfer.

2) You want to do international law? This might be a problem, unless you already have a pretty clear idea of what you want to do (and how you are going to get a job that does it). International law is fun to say in the abstract, but it's really not a realistic things for most.

3) American is not worth sticker. Taking on a lot of debt with not-so-great job prospects is not the best decision.

Not trying to be snarky or a jerk. I think too many people jump down your throat for posting in the wrong forum. (A mod can move the thread w/o problem to a more appropriate forum.) But you might want to do a good deal of thinking before deciding attend law school this year. Reapplying is always an option. And it also can give you time to make sure you have a realistic picture of what life post-law school might look like.

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traehekat
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby traehekat » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:42 am

Yeah, I didn't want to be the one to turn it into "that" kind of post, because I've kind of done that enough recently, but you should consider what Richie Tenenbaum posted. You'll probably need top 10% for GULC, 5% for NYU. Very hard to do, and much more so than simply retaking the LSAT and either going to a better school or getting some SIGNIFICANT money out of American.

I think a number people would agree that American is one of the worst schools you can go to. The tuition and cost of attendance is astronomical in comparison to the job prospects it offers. DC is a tough, tough market and you are going to be competing with both GULC (who has an enormous class) and GW students. If you think international law means jetting across the world from Paris to Somalia to Sydney to Sweden solving human rights issues, well, that just doesn't happen, and it especially doesn't happen for students who graduate outside of basically Yale and maybe 1 or 2 other schools in the T6. Also, you can probably forget about New York if you are coming from American, unless you are in like the top 1-3% or something, and even then it would be tough. It's not that you don't get the same legal education at American, it's just that New York firms already take a ton of students from the T14 and the billion other law schools in New York. American just isn't going to be on the radar for a lot of them.

JR1988 wrote:
traehekat wrote:
JR1988 wrote:Oh, and, GTFO 0L


Little inappropriate, don't you think?

OP, check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transferapps/ (you have actually join the group, but it takes 1 minute). That should give you an idea of how well you will have to do to transfer to NYU/GULC.


Yes, had I been being serious. I'll make sure my facetiousness is more noticeable from now on.

However, the earlier portions of my post weren't facetious. It was a rather dumb question on OP's part.


*woosh* my bad, i got ya. i don't blame OP for being curious, though, and i don't think it's really a dumb question that we can't possibly answer, considering there is an entire yahoo group dedicated to sharing the information she is looking for. the dumb part was ignoring the whole "0Ls READ THIS" sticky at the top of this forum that would have led her to the same info we gave her. :P

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Mce252
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby Mce252 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:49 am

futurejdgirl wrote:I'll be sure to censor and withhold my questions from now on, for your convenience. It must have been so inexplicably hard for you to read through my torturous, long post and subsequently think of such a creative and bitchy response. Really, I applaud your originality. Why are you still posting on this thread again?


Also, thanks for the link to the yahoo groups, traehekat. Much appreciated.


ONE OF THE FIRST THREADS IN THIS FORUM SAYS FOR OLS TO READ THIS BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM. Just put your tail between your legs, tell everyone you didn't follow instructions, and go study for the LSAT.

GreatNorth87
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby GreatNorth87 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:48 pm

Simply being on the internet doesn't mean you can be rude to others. A simple mistake was made. Close out the thread, take a deep breath, and move on with your life. Worse things have happened in society beyond someone accidentally posting in the incorrect thread on TLS.

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Mce252
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby Mce252 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:25 pm

GreatNorth87 wrote:Simply being on the internet doesn't mean you can should be rude to others. A simple mistake was made. Close out the thread, take a deep breath, and move on with your life. Worse things have happened in society beyond someone accidentally posting in the incorrect thread on TLS.


FTFY. Obviously we can.

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futurejdgirl
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby futurejdgirl » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:44 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:1) It will be difficult to transfer to either. I imagine at the very least you would need to be top 10%, but probably would have to be top 5% (or better). Depending on your GPA, it is much easier (and predictable) to hold on off on law school for now, attain a higher score on the LSAT, and reapply next year than it would be to get the kind of grades you need to transfer.

2) You want to do international law? This might be a problem, unless you already have a pretty clear idea of what you want to do (and how you are going to get a job that does it). International law is fun to say in the abstract, but it's really not a realistic things for most.

3) American is not worth sticker. Taking on a lot of debt with not-so-great job prospects is not the best decision.

Not trying to be snarky or a jerk. I think too many people jump down your throat for posting in the wrong forum. (A mod can move the thread w/o problem to a more appropriate forum.) But you might want to do a good deal of thinking before deciding attend law school this year. Reapplying is always an option. And it also can give you time to make sure you have a realistic picture of what life post-law school might look like.


I've thought about retaking the LSAT but I'm honestly not sure if I can get a high enough score to get into NYU or Georgetown. My LSAC gpa isn't so pretty because of a really horrible first year (good reason) and I would pretty much need to have a 170+ to stand a chance at those schools. Not to mention, I've already taken the LSAT twice and been in the same score range (162-163). It regret re-taking it the second time because I was taking 18 hours and didn't dedicate time to it like I should have. Honestly, I feel lucky to have gotten into American with my numbers. Law School Predictor "predicted" that I would be flat out rejected. I'm definitely going to negotiate about scholarships with them. The cost is worrying me immensely and I'm not sure how I'll afford it... my family definitely has the "need" but I don't know how much that'll make them give me. However, I think because of my numbers, I'll be limited in what funds I get the first year and I might just have to deal with the loans for a year, work my ass off, get the grades, and get scholarships for the remaining years and maybe, if I'm lucky, transfer.



traehekat wrote:Yeah, I didn't want to be the one to turn it into "that" kind of post, because I've kind of done that enough recently, but you should consider what Richie Tenenbaum posted. You'll probably need top 10% for GULC, 5% for NYU. Very hard to do, and much more so than simply retaking the LSAT and either going to a better school or getting some SIGNIFICANT money out of American.

I think a number people would agree that American is one of the worst schools you can go to. The tuition and cost of attendance is astronomical in comparison to the job prospects it offers. DC is a tough, tough market and you are going to be competing with both GULC (who has an enormous class) and GW students. If you think international law means jetting across the world from Paris to Somalia to Sydney to Sweden solving human rights issues, well, that just doesn't happen, and it especially doesn't happen for students who graduate outside of basically Yale and maybe 1 or 2 other schools in the T6. Also, you can probably forget about New York if you are coming from American, unless you are in like the top 1-3% or something, and even then it would be tough. It's not that you don't get the same legal education at American, it's just that New York firms already take a ton of students from the T14 and the billion other law schools in New York. American just isn't going to be on the radar for a lot of them.


I've heard this a lot on this forums and I understand the hate towards American, given that most everyone here is choosing between t-14 schools, but what about those who want to have the chance to go to a decent school in a good location? My goal isn't to work in DC forever - I want the option, but honestly I would like to work abroad for some time in my life. The main reason I really like American is their partnership/dual degree program with Université Paris Ouest Nanterre la Défense (notable alumni, solid reputation). I do think that could serve very well if I would like to get a job in Europe, in a French-speaking country. I considered attending some European Universities, but I kept finding the applicability of their degrees in the U.S. was slim to none. I do want to be able to practice law in the U.S. as well. With my interests, I just think American could be a good fit. It seems that students actually really like the atmosphere there so even if I can't get in as a transfer to Georgetown or NYU, I'll still be in a good place where I can succeed. I know it's a gamble but to be honest, most anything short of Harvard, Yale, Columbia, NYU usually is and I've accepted that.

Mce252 wrote:
ONE OF THE FIRST THREADS IN THIS FORUM SAYS FOR OLS TO READ THIS BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM. Just put your tail between your legs, tell everyone you didn't follow instructions, and go study for the LSAT.


I've been accepted to law schools already, hence, I've already taken the LSAT. Maybe you should work on your reading skills instead of criticizing mine?

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Mce252
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby Mce252 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:57 pm

futurejdgirl wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:1) It will be difficult to transfer to either. I imagine at the very least you would need to be top 10%, but probably would have to be top 5% (or better). Depending on your GPA, it is much easier (and predictable) to hold on off on law school for now, attain a higher score on the LSAT, and reapply next year than it would be to get the kind of grades you need to transfer.

2) You want to do international law? This might be a problem, unless you already have a pretty clear idea of what you want to do (and how you are going to get a job that does it). International law is fun to say in the abstract, but it's really not a realistic things for most.

3) American is not worth sticker. Taking on a lot of debt with not-so-great job prospects is not the best decision.

Not trying to be snarky or a jerk. I think too many people jump down your throat for posting in the wrong forum. (A mod can move the thread w/o problem to a more appropriate forum.) But you might want to do a good deal of thinking before deciding attend law school this year. Reapplying is always an option. And it also can give you time to make sure you have a realistic picture of what life post-law school might look like.


I've thought about retaking the LSAT but I'm honestly not sure if I can get a high enough score to get into NYU or Georgetown. My LSAC gpa isn't so pretty because of a really horrible first year (good reason) and I would pretty much need to have a 170+ to stand a chance at those schools. Not to mention, I've already taken the LSAT twice and been in the same score range (162-163). It regret re-taking it the second time because I was taking 18 hours and didn't dedicate time to it like I should have. Honestly, I feel lucky to have gotten into American with my numbers. Law School Predictor "predicted" that I would be flat out rejected. I'm definitely going to negotiate about scholarships with them. The cost is worrying me immensely and I'm not sure how I'll afford it... my family definitely has the "need" but I don't know how much that'll make them give me. However, I think because of my numbers, I'll be limited in what funds I get the first year and I might just have to deal with the loans for a year, work my ass off, get the grades, and get scholarships for the remaining years and maybe, if I'm lucky, transfer.



traehekat wrote:Yeah, I didn't want to be the one to turn it into "that" kind of post, because I've kind of done that enough recently, but you should consider what Richie Tenenbaum posted. You'll probably need top 10% for GULC, 5% for NYU. Very hard to do, and much more so than simply retaking the LSAT and either going to a better school or getting some SIGNIFICANT money out of American.

I think a number people would agree that American is one of the worst schools you can go to. The tuition and cost of attendance is astronomical in comparison to the job prospects it offers. DC is a tough, tough market and you are going to be competing with both GULC (who has an enormous class) and GW students. If you think international law means jetting across the world from Paris to Somalia to Sydney to Sweden solving human rights issues, well, that just doesn't happen, and it especially doesn't happen for students who graduate outside of basically Yale and maybe 1 or 2 other schools in the T6. Also, you can probably forget about New York if you are coming from American, unless you are in like the top 1-3% or something, and even then it would be tough. It's not that you don't get the same legal education at American, it's just that New York firms already take a ton of students from the T14 and the billion other law schools in New York. American just isn't going to be on the radar for a lot of them.


I've heard this a lot on this forums and I understand the hate towards American, given that most everyone here is choosing between t-14 schools, but what about those who want to have the chance to go to a decent school in a good location? My goal isn't to work in DC forever - I want the option, but honestly I would like to work abroad for some time in my life. The main reason I really like American is their partnership/dual degree program with Université Paris Ouest Nanterre la Défense (notable alumni, solid reputation). I do think that could serve very well if I would like to get a job in Europe, in a French-speaking country. I considered attending some European Universities, but I kept finding the applicability of their degrees in the U.S. was slim to none. I do want to be able to practice law in the U.S. as well. With my interests, I just think American could be a good fit. It seems that students actually really like the atmosphere there so even if I can't get in as a transfer to Georgetown or NYU, I'll still be in a good place where I can succeed. I know it's a gamble but to be honest, most anything short of Harvard, Yale, Columbia, NYU usually is and I've accepted that.

Mce252 wrote:
ONE OF THE FIRST THREADS IN THIS FORUM SAYS FOR OLS TO READ THIS BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM. Just put your tail between your legs, tell everyone you didn't follow instructions, and go study for the LSAT.


I've been accepted to law schools already, hence, I've already taken the LSAT. Maybe you should work on your reading skills instead of criticizing mine?


Oh, gosh, you're right. I forgot you're in that special situation where a retake is impossible and you can't apply next year. :shock:

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Wholigan
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby Wholigan » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:07 pm

futurejdgirl wrote:I've heard this a lot on this forums and I understand the hate towards American, given that most everyone here is choosing between t-14 schools, but what about those who want to have the chance to go to a decent school in a good location? My goal isn't to work in DC forever - I want the option, but honestly I would like to work abroad for some time in my life. The main reason I really like American is their partnership/dual degree program with Université Paris Ouest Nanterre la Défense (notable alumni, solid reputation). I do think that could serve very well if I would like to get a job in Europe, in a French-speaking country. I considered attending some European Universities, but I kept finding the applicability of their degrees in the U.S. was slim to none. I do want to be able to practice law in the U.S. as well. With my interests, I just think American could be a good fit. It seems that students actually really like the atmosphere there so even if I can't get in as a transfer to Georgetown or NYU, I'll still be in a good place where I can succeed. I know it's a gamble but to be honest, most anything short of Harvard, Yale, Columbia, NYU usually is and I've accepted that.


People don't just hate American because it's not in the T14. Schools like Cardozo and American get special hatred because:

1) Their tuition is very high, and coupled with being in expensive places to live, you are going to have an incredibly high debt-load by the time you graduate, especially at sticker price or close to it. If you have a wealthy benefactor paying your tuition, maybe this is something you can pay less attention to. Otherwise, disregard at your own risk.
2) These schools are not even among the 15 best schools or so for placing grads in jobs in the very city in which they are located. Think about that for a moment. People from every school in the T14 are gunning for jobs in DC, not to mention GW, W&L, William & Mary, and Mason, all of which are ahead of American on the DC food chain. What is even more pathetic is that American did not even appear on the recent NLJ top-50 list, which lists all schools that are placing more than 6.5% of their graduates into biglaw jobs. This means that (coupled with point#1 above), save for those in the 5-6% of grads that get market paying jobs and those with big scholarships, the rest of the American grads are in debt up to their eyeballs with no way to pay it off for decades.
3) They lure people in with bullshit like this dual degree in France nonsense. Ask American for the names of the students from the last few classes who are working in Europe. I am sure you can count them on one hand, if you need to count at all. Plus ask them how much extra debt you will have to take out to go and study in Paris.

Bottom line - Other similarly ranked schools will not face the same criticism for people going under the proper circumstances. See for example, UConn, Colorado, Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Arizona, ASU, etc etc.
Last edited by Wholigan on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:09 pm

OP:
1) Getting a 170+ will be easier than getting top 10% or better. The LSAT is predictable and much less arbitrary than first year grades. I was able to do well on both, and I can tell you that improving 19 points on the LSAT from my diagnostic score to my final score (on my 3rd take) was way easier than getting good grades in law school. If you really want to GULC or NYU, start studying again for the LSAT right now and plan on taking it for the 3rd time in June or sept/Oct.

2) Are you fluent in French?

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futurejdgirl
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby futurejdgirl » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:35 pm

Thank you all for your helpful advice. As cynical as it may be, I appreciate all opinions and want to make a well informed decision.

I plan on negotiating with American for some scholarship money and hopefully I'll be able to mitigate the COL and high tuition, or else I'll have to reconsider a lot of things. The problem is, even on law school predictor with a 170 LSAT and 3.01 GPA, I'm still rejected from the majority of t-14 schools. Yes, I would have a good chance at W&M, GWU, BU, some other splitter friendly schools but I'm still 100% certain that I would have to take on shitloads of debt anywhere, regardless of my shiny new LSAT score. I just don't see debt as being unavoidable and I do know that the higher ranked schools tend to give out less money - because more people are willing to pay for them at sticker. My job prospects might be better at a higher ranked school, but how much better? If its a marginal difference, then why take a year off, become a shut in for an LSAT score that still won't make up for my GPA? You guys refer to cost/benefit a lot here, specifically in regards to job prospects, but I firmly believe my LSAT can only get me so far, with my GPA. There are a lot of aspects that go into landing a job.. Not to worry, I'm very realistic that I'll have to work 10x harder because of all the kids from higher ranked law schools. I do hope I can get a scholarship at American and if I don't I will reconsider it.

Richie: Yes, I am fluent in French and Spanish.

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Kikero
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby Kikero » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:39 pm

futurejdgirl wrote: My job prospects might be better at a higher ranked school, but how much better? If its a marginal difference, then why take a year off, become a shut in for an LSAT score that still won't make up for my GPA?


This much better:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

Doesn't look like a marginal difference to me.

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bk1
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby bk1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:44 pm

LSP isn't the be all end all. Take a look at LSN. With a 170/3.0 you could likely snag UVA through ED. There are tons of people who got accepted with similar numbers this cycle and last cycle. There is nobody who got rejected this cycle with those numbers and only 4 people who get rejected with those numbers last cycle. A 170 would be huge and with ED you can get into the T14.

You're right, as a splitter you are pretty much guaranteed to take out tons of debt for a decent school (with some minor exceptions such as WUSTL/IUB which don't necessarily place where you want to be). This means that you pretty much need to get a T14 since they are the only schools which give you a good enough chance at getting a job that can make paying back $200k+ debt feasible.

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traehekat
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Re: 0L needing some advice

Postby traehekat » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:59 pm

futurejdgirl wrote:Thank you all for your helpful advice. As cynical as it may be, I appreciate all opinions and want to make a well informed decision.

I plan on negotiating with American for some scholarship money and hopefully I'll be able to mitigate the COL and high tuition, or else I'll have to reconsider a lot of things. The problem is, even on law school predictor with a 170 LSAT and 3.01 GPA, I'm still rejected from the majority of t-14 schools. Yes, I would have a good chance at W&M, GWU, BU, some other splitter friendly schools but I'm still 100% certain that I would have to take on shitloads of debt anywhere, regardless of my shiny new LSAT score. I just don't see debt as being unavoidable and I do know that the higher ranked schools tend to give out less money - because more people are willing to pay for them at sticker. My job prospects might be better at a higher ranked school, but how much better? If its a marginal difference, then why take a year off, become a shut in for an LSAT score that still won't make up for my GPA? You guys refer to cost/benefit a lot here, specifically in regards to job prospects, but I firmly believe my LSAT can only get me so far, with my GPA. There are a lot of aspects that go into landing a job.. Not to worry, I'm very realistic that I'll have to work 10x harder because of all the kids from higher ranked law schools. I do hope I can get a scholarship at American and if I don't I will reconsider it.

Richie: Yes, I am fluent in French and Spanish.


No, you may not be able to break into the T14 with your GPA (although if you take a year to work and retake the LSAT, you would have a decent shot at NU with a 170+). LSP is not very helpful for splitters, so you can't go solely based on that.

You also have to understand that it is NOT simply a "marginal" difference in job prospects between American and a school like BU. Here are the NLJ250 numbers for classes of 2009, 2010, and 2011 (respectively):

Boston University: 34.6%, 30%, 17.84%
George Washington: 31.6%, 24.76%, 17.76%
American*: <13.2%, <10.57%, <6.49%

*American was not among the top 50 schools to place it's students in NLJ250 firms in any of those three years.

Seems like a pretty significant difference to me, and keep in mind that the economy hit the class of 2011 worse, so I would imagine the classes of 2012 and 2013 will have done better (maybe not back up to 34% in BU's case, but probably back in the 25-30% range).

You also have to understand that "taking a year off" and becoming a "shut in" for the LSAT is an EXTREMELY small price to pay if it could possibly mean the difference between graduating with almost $200,000 in debt and no job versus graduating with almost $200,000 in debt and having a job. You probably spent 4 years toiling away in undergrad to get a degree you probably can't make much use of, but you won't spend a few months to study for a test that could actually determine how you will live the rest of your life?

Last thing...

futurejdgirl wrote:Not to worry, I'm very realistic that I'll have to work 10x harder because of all the kids from higher ranked law schools.


No, you DO have to worry. Finding a job, and even doing well in law school in the first place, is not simply something you can outwork people at. You could work as hard as you possibly can and still end up at median, and then you can work as hard as possible at finding a job, and still come up with nothing. The truly sad part is that this would not be abnormal or anything. It happens ALL THE TIME.




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