University of Arizona 1L Taking Questions Forum

[ColomboHeat]

I relied heavily on this site for advice and guidance during my cycle last year, so I figured I'd make myself available to you all.

I am a 1L at the University of Arizona
I am new to Tucson
I landed a summer internship at our campus career fair

I don't mind getting into specifics, but I won't waste any space in the OP. Ask away!

[Purity Control]

I'll start off with a couple questions:

- Where are you interning this summer?

- What is your 1L class schedule and work load like?

thanks!

[Geetar Man]

Can you give us your numbers? and any softs or what not?

How's the LS? Where did you do undergrad?

+ 1 on the internship... I feel as if there are a limited amount of internships in Tucson because of the city's size relative to the number of students, which is about (I believe) 150 per class.

[gaud]

Recommendations on housing/where to live?

[Geetar Man]

Recommendations on housing/where to live?

Not a 1L, but Tucson in general is pretty cheap to live. Near campus is obviously best, since you could bike to school and avoid paying for parking. A yearly parking pass, in a garage, is around $700 (which is really not that expensive).

I know people who live in a 2 bedroom/2 bath, about 2 miles away, for 850 a month plus utilities. PM me if you have anymore specific questions.

[ColomboHeat]

I'll start off with a couple questions:

- Where are you interning this summer?

- What is your 1L class schedule and work load like?

thanks!

I will be at the Attorney General's office in Phoenix.

First Semester:
Contracts
Torts
Civil Procedure
Writing & Research

Second Semester:
Property
Constitutional Law
Criminal Procedure
Immigration Law*
Writing & Research

This was an elective slot, so you had a choice between several different classes that studied statutory regulations.

I would describe the work load as required reading of 25-35 pages in each class per class meeting. This may cover 3-4 cases, and just about all professors will cold call you, so the preparation is definitely required. Some substantive classes also assign writing assignments related to the course material. The Writing and Research components take up the least in-class time, but the projects assigned wind up taking up a lot more time overall. The social scene can completely shut down the weekend a deadline comes up. I treat school like a 9-5 job and head home before it get's dark each evening for dinner. I rarely study on the weekends. My grades were not stellar, I am probably mid pack in my class, but we will not be ranked until the year is over. The B's on my transcript at least didn't seem to hurt me at OCI.

Can you give us your numbers? and any softs or what not?

How's the LS? Where did you do undergrad?

+ 1 on the internship... I feel as if there are a limited amount of internships in Tucson because of the city's size relative to the number of students, which is about (I believe) 150 per class.

I was admitted with a 164/3.05… and an upward GPA trend from the basement

I have been very impressed with my professors thus far, even those whom I may not have really enjoyed their teaching style. 3/4 of my profs have written their own casebooks, and everyone is very available. They are bringing on an IP law prof full time this year and expanding in that area. The law campus is modern and comfortable - it's right off main campus but just enough so that there are no undergrads tooling around - it feels sufficiently isolated from the masses. The law campus is "new" and was completely redone in 2008. So the classrooms, facilities, library, etc. are all very nice.

I actually did my undergrad at Arizona State, so I have spent time on both Arizona campuses. My decision to come down to Tucson for school was primarily due to the small size of our program (my class is barely 150, probably closer to 140 people I believe), the opportunity to "get away" and start law school in a small town with no [read: less] distractions, and it ultimately made more sense financially. After earning my B.A. at a school the size of a small city, I wanted a more intimate experience, and I am certainly getting that at the UofA. I am not here to bash a rival program, but I will say that the law campus at ASU is old... and it shows... which is why they are trying to make the move to build a new facility downtown. I personally don't miss Tempe save for the better bar scene/access to the rest of the valley.

I got the impression from our OCI that many of us wound up getting jobs in Phoenix over the summer, I might guesstimate about half? At several of my interviews with local/state offices I was told that they would be taking "one ASU student and one UofA student" or something along those lines. Tucson does seem to have a small legal job market. The city has about a million people. But do not feel like Tucson's distance from the Phoenix job market is an obstacle to employment, because it certainly isn't. I don't know so much about private law firms personally but several of my classmates have been interviewing with Phoenix firms.

[ColomboHeat]

Recommendations on housing/where to live?

Tucson is great for cheap housing. I spent a lot of time looking around close to campus, but I was disappointed with the small size of the properties and the lack of central air. Many have swamp coolers, and I NEED A/C! Like the other poster above said, there are some killer deals on rent in a smaller town. There are a lots of very nice restoration district neighborhoods surrounding campus on all sides if you've got the cheese, as well as some $350/month studio sized spaces walking distance from school if you don't. I personally liked the area to the north & west of the law campus the most, staying on the east side of the freeway. The homes are nice and reasonably priced, if not on the small side. But since it is student housing, it's pretty much what you'd expect.

I wound up finding a 1600'ish sq. ft. 2br/2ba house with a big yard for $800 a month north of school. I have a 15-20 minute freeway commute that I do not mind, but lots of my friends think I am crazy for living "so far" away. I think it's a fair trade for the space and amenities. I have a dog and a girlfriend who works nearby, so it's a good fit for us.

[gaud]

Recommendations on housing/where to live?

Tucson is great for cheap housing. I spent a lot of time looking around close to campus, but I was disappointed with the small size of the properties and the lack of central air. Many have swamp coolers, and I NEED A/C! Like the other poster above said, there are some killer deals on rent in a smaller town. There are a lots of very nice restoration district neighborhoods surrounding campus on all sides if you've got the cheese, as well as some $350/month studio sized spaces walking distance from school if you don't. I personally liked the area to the north & west of the law campus the most, staying on the east side of the freeway. The homes are nice and reasonably priced, if not on the small side. But since it is student housing, it's pretty much what you'd expect.

I wound up finding a 1600'ish sq. ft. 2br/2ba house with a big yard for $800 a month north of school. I have a 15-20 minute freeway commute that I do not mind, but lots of my friends think I am crazy for living "so far" away. I think it's a fair trade for the space and amenities. I have a dog and a girlfriend who works nearby, so it's a good fit for us.

Would the areas north and west of the law campuses be in 'safe' areas? I've heard good and bad things about Tucson and I want to make sure I'd be moving into a 'nicer' area if possible (my SO may be coming with me).

Also, do you have recommendations for a hotel? I will have a car and I'm looking to stay somewhere near the campus and nightlife (to get an idea of Tucson at it's best lol).

EDIT: btw, thank you for the help!

[ColomboHeat]

Would the areas north and west of the law campuses be in 'safe' areas? I've heard good and bad things about Tucson and I want to make sure I'd be moving into a 'nicer' area if possible (my SO may be coming with me).

Also, do you have recommendations for a hotel? I will have a car and I'm looking to stay somewhere near the campus and nightlife (to get an idea of Tucson at it's best lol).

EDIT: btw, thank you for the help!

Haha yes I would call the Northwest area the "safe" area. When looking around near campus to the south and immediate west there are neighborhoods such as Barrio Hollywood that I might be less inclined to recommend, but I actually haven't heard any complaints from those people I know who decided to live there. Get out a google map, and keep an eye out for 22nd street (which is south of campus). Some consider Tucson to be split at that line, like many towns… you know what I mean, and I wouldn't recommend you bother looking for housing in South Tucson below 22nd street.

This one Marriott is right on campus, seemingly part of campus, and a very short stumbling distance to the heart of Tucon's campus nightlife… and only a slightly longer walk to Tucson's downtown nightlife. A lot of parents stay here for parents' weekend and events like that. I would suggest you stay here for the feel of the University.

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/T ... rsity-Park

[gaud]

Thanks!

[Geetar Man]

I was admitted with a 164/3.05… and an upward GPA trend from the basement

I have been very impressed with my professors thus far, even those whom I may not have really enjoyed their teaching style. 3/4 of my profs have written their own casebooks, and everyone is very available. They are bringing on an IP law prof full time this year and expanding in that area. The law campus is modern and comfortable - it's right off main campus but just enough so that there are no undergrads tooling around - it feels sufficiently isolated from the masses. The law campus is "new" and was completely redone in 2008. So the classrooms, facilities, library, etc. are all very nice.

Nice, were you offered any merit based aid? I have a similar GPA and am studying for the LSAT in the hopes of pulling an LSAT around there, so I was just curious. I attended the UA as an undergrad, but I have no idea if that helps or not.

[Geetar Man]

What did OCI look like for students this year? Where does the U of A place most of their grads? It is to my understanding that Tucson has a fairy small legal market; does this pose a problem for students who want to stay in Tucson?
Last one: what about placement in Phoenix; is a job in Phoenix viable considering the Phoenix firms (or lack thereof) who attend OCI?

Thanks!

[Veyron]

What did OCI look like for students this year? Where does the U of A place most of their grads? It is to my understanding that Tucson has a fairy small legal market; does this pose a problem for students who want to stay in Tucson?
Last one: what about placement in Phoenix; is a job in Phoenix viable considering the Phoenix firms (or lack thereof) who attend OCI?

Thanks!

The city has about a million people.

Tucson has about 500k people (its the metro area, broadly defined that has a million) and the size of the legal market there better reflects the former figure. Plenty of wildcats end up working in Phoenix. As far as as Valley firms are concerned ASU/UofA are both "local" schools (Tucson firms might be another matter...) I also have no idea what you mean about a lack of Phoenix firms that attend OCI. All or nearly all of the major players in the state that hire out of their summer programs do. If you dig around enough you should be able to find the list of attendees last year non-password protected. Now at schools of that rank you probably aren't going to get a position out of 2L OCI (AKA real OCI) absent top 10 (or for a few midlaw firms 25%) but that won't change because of geography.

[Geetar Man]

What did OCI look like for students this year? Where does the U of A place most of their grads? It is to my understanding that Tucson has a fairy small legal market; does this pose a problem for students who want to stay in Tucson?
Last one: what about placement in Phoenix; is a job in Phoenix viable considering the Phoenix firms (or lack thereof) who attend OCI?

Thanks!

The city has about a million people.

Tucson has about 500k people (its the metro area, broadly defined that has a million) and the size of the legal market there better reflects the former figure. Plenty of wildcats end up working in Phoenix. As far as as Valley firms are concerned ASU/UofA are both "local" schools (Tucson firms might be another matter...) I also have no idea what you mean about a lack of Phoenix firms that attend OCI. All or nearly all of the major players in the state that hire out of their summer programs do. If you dig around enough you should be able to find the list of attendees last year non-password protected. Now at schools of that rank you probably aren't going to get a position out of 2L OCI (AKA real OCI) absent top 10 (or for a few midlaw firms 25%) but that won't change because of geography.

Thank you for taking the time to answer! I was under the impression that only a few firms from Phoenix go to OCI in Tucson, but your post indicates that it is more than just a few.

I'm just wondering about the job prospects, as I know both UA and ASU are strong regional schools. I plan on attending one or the other, so I'm trying to figure out which one is most likely to have more job opportunities. I have strong ties here in AZ, born and raised and I plan on staying here. Therefore, I'd have no problem attending one of these schools instead of another higher ranked school.

[Veyron]

What did OCI look like for students this year? Where does the U of A place most of their grads? It is to my understanding that Tucson has a fairy small legal market; does this pose a problem for students who want to stay in Tucson?
Last one: what about placement in Phoenix; is a job in Phoenix viable considering the Phoenix firms (or lack thereof) who attend OCI?

Thanks!

The city has about a million people.

Tucson has about 500k people (its the metro area, broadly defined that has a million) and the size of the legal market there better reflects the former figure. Plenty of wildcats end up working in Phoenix. As far as as Valley firms are concerned ASU/UofA are both "local" schools (Tucson firms might be another matter...) I also have no idea what you mean about a lack of Phoenix firms that attend OCI. All or nearly all of the major players in the state that hire out of their summer programs do. If you dig around enough you should be able to find the list of attendees last year non-password protected. Now at schools of that rank you probably aren't going to get a position out of 2L OCI (AKA real OCI) absent top 10 (or for a few midlaw firms 25%) but that won't change because of geography.

Thank you for taking the time to answer! I was under the impression that only a few firms from Phoenix go to OCI in Tucson, but your post indicates that it is more than just a few.

I'm just wondering about the job prospects, as I know both UA and ASU are strong regional schools. I plan on attending one or the other, so I'm trying to figure out which one is most likely to have more job opportunities. I have strong ties here in AZ, born and raised and I plan on staying here. Therefore, I'd have no problem attending one of these schools instead of another higher ranked school.

No problem. Don't make this decision based on job opportunities, the schools are as close to identical in that regard as schools can possibly be. If you want to work in AZ, I think you have the right idea of attending one or the other (unless you get into a T-14 or something).

One thing I want to clarify - I have no idea what your definition of a few is. There are maybe 20 firms in Arizona that hire summer associates AND hire from their summer associate programs. So U of A OCI may not have a lot of firms raw number wise but it has a large % of the firms that hire summer associates.

[Geetar Man]

No problem. Don't make this decision based on job opportunities, the schools are as close to identical in that regard as schools can possibly be. If you want to work in AZ, I think you have the right idea of attending one or the other (unless you get into a T-14 or something).

One thing I want to clarify - I have no idea what your definition of a few is. There are maybe 20 firms in Arizona that hire summer associates AND hire from their summer associate programs. So U of A OCI may not have a lot of firms raw number wise but it has a large % of the firms that hire summer associates.

Okay, I understand that- I didnt mean that I would make the decision solely on job opportunities; I would also consider COA, COL, Commute, my SO's opinion,etc...

Okay, I see. So what you're basically saying is that there are roughly 20 firms that hire for summer jobs and the aforementioned firms pull (to hire) a high % from those same people. Therefore, getting a summer associate position greatly increases your chances in getting hired in the future, because of the fact that they hire a large % of their summer associates. Am I understanding that correctly?

One last thing: (I swear, hopefully) Does either UA or ASU have a DOJ honors program? I'd like to work for the DOJ at some point and I've heard that being in this program increases your chances, marginally. If they both have the program, would it be better to attend the smaller school (UA) so that there is less competition and better chances at keeping a higher GPA required for the program. If you don't mind, assuming you know, can you explain how this program works?

I really REALLY appreciate your responses, as the OP is MIA. I see that you're not attending UA, but I have faith, as indicated in your posts, that you know the gist of what this stuff is about...

Op, if you come back id like to hear your thoughts since you go to a school that's in question.

[Veyron]

No problem. Don't make this decision based on job opportunities, the schools are as close to identical in that regard as schools can possibly be. If you want to work in AZ, I think you have the right idea of attending one or the other (unless you get into a T-14 or something).

One thing I want to clarify - I have no idea what your definition of a few is. There are maybe 20 firms in Arizona that hire summer associates AND hire from their summer associate programs. So U of A OCI may not have a lot of firms raw number wise but it has a large % of the firms that hire summer associates.

Okay, I understand that- I didnt mean that I would make the decision solely on job opportunities; I would also consider COA, COL, Commute, my SO's opinion,etc...

Okay, I see. So what you're basically saying is that there are roughly 20 firms that hire for summer jobs and the aforementioned firms pull (to hire) a high % from those same people. Therefore, getting a summer associate position greatly increases your chances in getting hired in the future, because of the fact that they hire a large % of their summer associates. Am I understanding that correctly?

One last thing: (I swear, hopefully) Does either UA or ASU have a DOJ honors program? I'd like to work for the DOJ at some point and I've heard that being in this program increases your chances, marginally. If they both have the program, would it be better to attend the smaller school (UA) so that there is less competition and better chances at keeping a higher GPA required for the program. If you don't mind, assuming you know, can you explain how this program works?

I really REALLY appreciate your responses, as the OP is MIA. I see that you're not attending UA, but I have faith, as indicated in your posts, that you know the gist of what this stuff is about...

Op, if you come back id like to hear your thoughts since you go to a school that's in question.

Ahhhh... I forgot you were a 0L. There are WAY more than 20 firms that hire for summer jobs. You have to understand the difference between the positions "law clerk" and "summer associate." As a law clerk you work for a firm for the summer but there is no expectation that you will be hired. As a summer associate you work for a firm for the summer with the expectation that the firm will seriously consider hiring you. You are also paid at or near first year associate rates. There are about 20 firms in Arizona that hire summer associates (give or take) and almost all firms planning on hiring summer associates for Arizona in a given year recruit at both ASU and U of A. Plenty of firms that are only planning to hire law clerks don't even bother doing OCI.

I think you are also misunderstanding the nature of the DOJ Honors program. That's something you apply to while in law school so that you can work for the DOJ on their honors track. Its a program run by the DOJ, not by any particular law school. Its best to think of it in the same way as applying for a job or (judicial) clerkship. Your acceptance into the program will depend on your commitment to government service as demonstrated by your resume as well as your (law school) class rank and to some extent the quality of the law school you attend.

[ShastaNikki]

Hi! UA 0L here. Thanks for taking questions.
Just wondering what the electives for 1L 2nd semester usually are?
Also, what did your schedule look like for 1st semester, if you don't mind sharing? Blocked classes? Friday classes? Organizational meetings? Late library time?
Who were your favorite profs, and why? Are certain profs always paired together to teach students in the same sections, or are the split up randomly?
What sort of law do you think you are interested in as you approach your 2L?
Were there any supplements you found particularly helpful for certain classes/profs?
Thanks again!

[istara]

Last semester, the elective options were Leg Reg, Immigration, and Federal Tax.

First semester was well-scheduled IMO, and so much better than second semester. The three major classes met 3 times a week (at least for my section), with research thrown in 1 day per week for half the semester and also writing (2 hours, once per week). You will have a small section (unless something has changed) of about 25-30. One class will be just that section, others will be 2-4 sections combined, and LRW classes will be half that (~15 students).

I didn't use supplements, except for in Civ Pro, but that class will be totally different next semester (both Profs who taught it will not be here next year, one was visiting from ASU, the other will be visiting Yale). I do have A outlines for everything except property (A-, I should have used a supplement or two for that class).. so if you need anything, feel free to PM me.

[lookingin]

question answered thanks!