Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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rhododactylos
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby rhododactylos » Tue May 02, 2017 2:46 pm

Greetings Columbia friends!

Hope you all are having a happy exam season. Just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that one of the absolute best professors at UVA Law, Caleb Nelson, will be visiting CLS for the fall to teach Federal Courts, and I encourage anyone interested to take it. A Nelson class is a mind-blowing academic smorgasbord (some have compared it to "drinking from a fire hose") but I honestly learned and retained more from that class than I have from all of my other classes combined. He'll essentially give you a treatise on where the law was, where it is, where it is going, and critiques on dozens of leading theories.

On top of all that he is one of the kindest people I've ever met. If you get the chance, take him out to lunch (he loves Indian food) and get to know him. Just promise us that you'll return him to UVA undamaged and that you don't give him any big ideas about staying at CLS.

Cheers,

Your friendly neighborhood Lawhoo

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Thelaw23
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Thelaw23 » Tue May 02, 2017 3:00 pm

^^^

How do you take professors out to lunch? Is that like a normal thing in law school? (Because I don't think it was for my undegrad) You just e-mail them and casually ask them if they would want to have lunch somewhere?

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rhododactylos
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby rhododactylos » Tue May 02, 2017 3:33 pm

Thelaw23 wrote:^^^

How do you take professors out to lunch? Is that like a normal thing in law school? (Because I don't think it was for my undegrad) You just e-mail them and casually ask them if they would want to have lunch somewhere?


Whoops, didn't realize that this was more of a UVA thing than a law school thing generally. UVA has a program where if students take a professor out, the school will pay for the professor's lunch, so groups take professors out all the time. Even if this isn't normal at CLS Nelson is used to it, so I'm sure he'd be happy to go with anyone who invited him.

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White Dwarf
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby White Dwarf » Tue May 02, 2017 3:38 pm

Columbia definitely has something like that. I don't think it's a big part of the culture here, though.

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TheKisSquared
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby TheKisSquared » Wed May 03, 2017 12:04 am

rhododactylos wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:^^^

How do you take professors out to lunch? Is that like a normal thing in law school? (Because I don't think it was for my undegrad) You just e-mail them and casually ask them if they would want to have lunch somewhere?


Whoops, didn't realize that this was more of a UVA thing than a law school thing generally. UVA has a program where if students take a professor out, the school will pay for the professor's lunch, so groups take professors out all the time. Even if this isn't normal at CLS Nelson is used to it, so I'm sure he'd be happy to go with anyone who invited him.


CLS apparently gives them a budget to get meals with students, so a bunch of my professors have done small lunch or breakfast sections with 5-10 students. I've found them interesting though somewhat impersonal.

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MrJD2020
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby MrJD2020 » Wed May 03, 2017 3:18 pm

How did I only discover this thread today?
Last edited by MrJD2020 on Wed May 03, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MrJD2020
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby MrJD2020 » Wed May 03, 2017 4:16 pm

JD/MBA QUESTION

I'm starting at CLS this fall. Yay!

I was initially considering a 3-year JD/MBA at CLS. I really want V5 corp biglaw, and I know the MBA is not at all necessary to get it (though it's not so unusual at a few firms), but here are my pros/cons. Can a few CLS students chime in with their thoughts?

Pros: reasons to pursue the JD/MBA
1. I think it would help me enjoy/understand M&A matters more (from a client's perspective) from the start of my legal career. I did corporate paralegal V5 work for a few years followed by compliance at a hedge fund, but having that experience doesn't mean I wouldn't still benefit from CBS coursework. I think B school classes could help a lot.

2. Networking and future contacts: I think an MBA from Columbia and the contacts/friends I make there will improve my exit opportunities after biglaw if I don't stay in biglaw forever. My post-biglaw goal would be in-house investment counsel at a hedge fund or PE firm, but perhaps I'd want to leave law practice entirely. And if I do end up staying in biglaw and gunning for/wanting/being considered for biglaw partnership someday (I know this is FAR from a sure thing), I expect that being part of a B school network and having those contacts will help improve my profile as a candidate for partnership. There are a number of JD/MBA partners at the biglaw firms at the top of legal league tables (W, etc., though that doesn't mean it's necessary, and such partners are not in the majority).

3. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that by the end of 1L I think I somehow might not want to pursue biglaw (0.5% chance), I figure being jointly enrolled in CLS and CBS during 2L will enable me to pursue MBA summer opportunities obtainable through CBS Career Services/Recruiting, either in lieu of a 2L SA biglaw gig OR in addition to it (by splitting my post-2L summer between biglaw SA and a short finance/ibanking internship so I can then decide which offer I want to take). Is this just crazy risk-averse thinking? I know that splitting a 2L summer is uncommon, but I know it's possible and I know of a handful of people at pretty highly ranked firms who split summers successfully.

Here's what I can find about 2L summer splitting: here and here.

4. Honest-to-god interest in CBS course offerings, including taking certain classes that are not open for cross-registration (i.e., for B school students only).

Cons: reasons to just get the JD
1. JD/MBA =more debt. Holy s***t, more debt?! Please, no more debt.

2. If I can cross-register for enough B school and law courses focusing on M&A/alternative investments/finance in 2L and 3L, I'd still get most of the business education I want. If you are a CLS student who took lots of business classes, but did NOT do the JD/MBA, I REALLY want to hear from you!!

3. The likelihood that I would want to go immediately into finance instead of biglaw is honestly 0.5%. I'm not really rethinking being a corporate attorney, no more than anyone else going into CLS is rethinking being an attorney. I've had five years since UG to be sure I want to go to law school. I definitely do, and if I had any serious reservations, I wouldn't be quitting my job to go to CLS. I just know that anything can happen and that as of today, finance is the other thing I'd attempt in the extremely unlikely event that that I have second thoughts about biglaw a year from now.

Would really love to hear from CLS students about this. Thanks!

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RSN
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby RSN » Wed May 03, 2017 10:21 pm

rhododactylos wrote:Greetings Columbia friends!

Hope you all are having a happy exam season. Just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that one of the absolute best professors at UVA Law, Caleb Nelson, will be visiting CLS for the fall to teach Federal Courts, and I encourage anyone interested to take it. A Nelson class is a mind-blowing academic smorgasbord (some have compared it to "drinking from a fire hose") but I honestly learned and retained more from that class than I have from all of my other classes combined. He'll essentially give you a treatise on where the law was, where it is, where it is going, and critiques on dozens of leading theories.

On top of all that he is one of the kindest people I've ever met. If you get the chance, take him out to lunch (he loves Indian food) and get to know him. Just promise us that you'll return him to UVA undamaged and that you don't give him any big ideas about staying at CLS.

Cheers,

Your friendly neighborhood Lawhoo


Does he allow laptops?

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rhododactylos
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby rhododactylos » Wed May 03, 2017 11:06 pm

RSN wrote:
rhododactylos wrote:Greetings Columbia friends!

Hope you all are having a happy exam season. Just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that one of the absolute best professors at UVA Law, Caleb Nelson, will be visiting CLS for the fall to teach Federal Courts, and I encourage anyone interested to take it. A Nelson class is a mind-blowing academic smorgasbord (some have compared it to "drinking from a fire hose") but I honestly learned and retained more from that class than I have from all of my other classes combined. He'll essentially give you a treatise on where the law was, where it is, where it is going, and critiques on dozens of leading theories.

On top of all that he is one of the kindest people I've ever met. If you get the chance, take him out to lunch (he loves Indian food) and get to know him. Just promise us that you'll return him to UVA undamaged and that you don't give him any big ideas about staying at CLS.

Cheers,

Your friendly neighborhood Lawhoo


Does he allow laptops?


Yup. And generally even people who hand-write in other classes will type in Nelson classes because he spouts a lot of information very quickly (although he'll usually repeat himself a few times on major points).

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RSN
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby RSN » Thu May 04, 2017 1:17 am

rhododactylos wrote:
RSN wrote:
rhododactylos wrote:Greetings Columbia friends!

Hope you all are having a happy exam season. Just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that one of the absolute best professors at UVA Law, Caleb Nelson, will be visiting CLS for the fall to teach Federal Courts, and I encourage anyone interested to take it. A Nelson class is a mind-blowing academic smorgasbord (some have compared it to "drinking from a fire hose") but I honestly learned and retained more from that class than I have from all of my other classes combined. He'll essentially give you a treatise on where the law was, where it is, where it is going, and critiques on dozens of leading theories.

On top of all that he is one of the kindest people I've ever met. If you get the chance, take him out to lunch (he loves Indian food) and get to know him. Just promise us that you'll return him to UVA undamaged and that you don't give him any big ideas about staying at CLS.

Cheers,

Your friendly neighborhood Lawhoo


Does he allow laptops?


Yup. And generally even people who hand-write in other classes will type in Nelson classes because he spouts a lot of information very quickly (although he'll usually repeat himself a few times on major points).


Solid. Thanks for the heads up, looking forward to the class (which I was planning to do anyway, but glad to hear he's so well regarded).

lellie
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby lellie » Fri May 05, 2017 10:29 pm

.
Last edited by lellie on Mon May 08, 2017 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr_OIT
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Dr_OIT » Fri May 05, 2017 11:25 pm

MrJD2020 wrote:JD/MBA QUESTION

I'm starting at CLS this fall. Yay!

I was initially considering a 3-year JD/MBA at CLS. I really want V5 corp biglaw, and I know the MBA is not at all necessary to get it (though it's not so unusual at a few firms), but here are my pros/cons. Can a few CLS students chime in with their thoughts?

Pros: reasons to pursue the JD/MBA
1. I think it would help me enjoy/understand M&A matters more (from a client's perspective) from the start of my legal career. I did corporate paralegal V5 work for a few years followed by compliance at a hedge fund, but having that experience doesn't mean I wouldn't still benefit from CBS coursework. I think B school classes could help a lot.

2. Networking and future contacts: I think an MBA from Columbia and the contacts/friends I make there will improve my exit opportunities after biglaw if I don't stay in biglaw forever. My post-biglaw goal would be in-house investment counsel at a hedge fund or PE firm, but perhaps I'd want to leave law practice entirely. And if I do end up staying in biglaw and gunning for/wanting/being considered for biglaw partnership someday (I know this is FAR from a sure thing), I expect that being part of a B school network and having those contacts will help improve my profile as a candidate for partnership. There are a number of JD/MBA partners at the biglaw firms at the top of legal league tables (W, etc., though that doesn't mean it's necessary, and such partners are not in the majority).

3. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that by the end of 1L I think I somehow might not want to pursue biglaw (0.5% chance), I figure being jointly enrolled in CLS and CBS during 2L will enable me to pursue MBA summer opportunities obtainable through CBS Career Services/Recruiting, either in lieu of a 2L SA biglaw gig OR in addition to it (by splitting my post-2L summer between biglaw SA and a short finance/ibanking internship so I can then decide which offer I want to take). Is this just crazy risk-averse thinking? I know that splitting a 2L summer is uncommon, but I know it's possible and I know of a handful of people at pretty highly ranked firms who split summers successfully.

Here's what I can find about 2L summer splitting: here and here.

4. Honest-to-god interest in CBS course offerings, including taking certain classes that are not open for cross-registration (i.e., for B school students only).

Cons: reasons to just get the JD
1. JD/MBA =more debt. Holy s***t, more debt?! Please, no more debt.

2. If I can cross-register for enough B school and law courses focusing on M&A/alternative investments/finance in 2L and 3L, I'd still get most of the business education I want. If you are a CLS student who took lots of business classes, but did NOT do the JD/MBA, I REALLY want to hear from you!!

3. The likelihood that I would want to go immediately into finance instead of biglaw is honestly 0.5%. I'm not really rethinking being a corporate attorney, no more than anyone else going into CLS is rethinking being an attorney. I've had five years since UG to be sure I want to go to law school. I definitely do, and if I had any serious reservations, I wouldn't be quitting my job to go to CLS. I just know that anything can happen and that as of today, finance is the other thing I'd attempt in the extremely unlikely event that that I have second thoughts about biglaw a year from now.

Would really love to hear from CLS students about this. Thanks!


Would love to hear about this too!

Humbert Humbert
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Humbert Humbert » Sat May 06, 2017 6:44 am

Regular JD but I've taken a class at the b school, one b school class cross listed with the law school (two professors, one from each school), and then a number of classes that are finance related (financial statement analysis, corporate finance, etc) that are taught at the law school but largely resemble those that would be taught across campus. You could do even more if you wanted. I had a similar mindset but decided against MBA and decided to take advantage of the law school's business/finance offerings, which are really pretty good.

dabigchina
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby dabigchina » Sat May 06, 2017 12:07 pm

I took 1 advanced B school class this semester and I'm probably going to take another one. I don't think I was really at a disadvantage in the class. To be honest, I wasn't impressed with the quality of people I met in my business school classes. To be fair, I have an accounting background and it was an advanced accounting class.

I wouldn't do the MBA if you are only considering it to learn about business. The MBA program is mainly a 2 year networking session for bankers and consultants. You can get a solid base of knowledge by taking corp finance, fin statement analysis, and a few business school courses.

Ofc, if you want to be a banker/consultant, get the dual degree.

palalc
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby palalc » Sun May 07, 2017 9:48 am

Need Advice:

Currently applying for couples housing.

Does applying for UAH or Law School Housing give me a better shot at getting a studio/1 bedroom? And the best shot at getting the greatest value? (Ie. Nicest place, lowest rent)

Which gives me a better shot at securing couples housing, listing studio or 1 bedroom as my first choice?

Does anyone have any other suggestions for how to preference the housing app?

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UVA2B
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby UVA2B » Sun May 07, 2017 9:57 am

rhododactylos wrote:Greetings Columbia friends!

Hope you all are having a happy exam season. Just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that one of the absolute best professors at UVA Law, Caleb Nelson, will be visiting CLS for the fall to teach Federal Courts, and I encourage anyone interested to take it. A Nelson class is a mind-blowing academic smorgasbord (some have compared it to "drinking from a fire hose") but I honestly learned and retained more from that class than I have from all of my other classes combined. He'll essentially give you a treatise on where the law was, where it is, where it is going, and critiques on dozens of leading theories.

On top of all that he is one of the kindest people I've ever met. If you get the chance, take him out to lunch (he loves Indian food) and get to know him. Just promise us that you'll return him to UVA undamaged and that you don't give him any big ideas about staying at CLS.

Cheers,

Your friendly neighborhood Lawhoo


Sorry to derail a bit, but how did I find out about losing Nelson for next semester through a Columbia thread?! Seriously, return him to us in one piece. And I'm pissed I don't get to enjoy the pleasure of his classes next fall when OGI is officially in the rear view mirror. :cry:

mmestik
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby mmestik » Sun May 07, 2017 3:45 pm

Got a housing app question:

Does listing higher maximum monthly cost increase the odds of getting an UAH apartment share with less people? What's the difference between an apartment share that costs 1200 vs an apartment share that costs 1600 for UAH?

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Mon May 08, 2017 8:18 am

Anyone on here done the D.C. externship and have any thoughts on whether you would recommend it, whether it's worth missing a semester of class, etc.?

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon May 08, 2017 9:40 am

GoneSouth wrote:Anyone on here done the D.C. externship and have any thoughts on whether you would recommend it, whether it's worth missing a semester of class, etc.?

I did it and it is 1000x better than class. I thought classes in law school were a waste of time so I jumped at the opportunity to get out of class and still get credit for it. I also was gunning for PI post-grad so I wanted practical experience to make myself a more qualified candidate. I highly recommend it, particularly if you have an interest in government at some point in the future. It was also good from a networking standpoint, as I used my time in DC to meet with alums working at places I would be interested in working at in the future.

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DogsAndWriting
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DogsAndWriting » Tue May 09, 2017 5:27 pm

Another housing question:

Can anyone speak to the general student composition of each housing option? So I know that UAH is open to all grad students, whereas the other housing options on the CLS website are exclusively for law students. But besides that, are you more likely to see a particular kind of student at a particular building?

For example, I'm going to conjecture and say that Lenfest and Lionsgate is home to an older, wealthier crowd (with a higher concentration of married couples). Whereas West 115th/116th is where you'll find more KJDs, as well as students who are shoestringing their way through law school. How much truth is there to this?

Thanks!

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Thelaw23
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Thelaw23 » Tue May 09, 2017 6:27 pm

Sorry for yet another housing question in this thread:


Have most of you entered a preferred roommate when applying for housing? Or did you sort of let it rock and see who you were assigned with?

I set studio as my priority, and I am wary of finding someone as a roommate to enter into my app because 1) I don't want to let that roommate down if I get a studio and 2) I don't want to hint at the housing office that I'm ok with apartment shares as opposed to a studio

maroon175
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby maroon175 » Tue May 09, 2017 10:08 pm

DogsAndWriting wrote:Another housing question:

For example, I'm going to conjecture and say that Lenfest and Lionsgate is home to an older, wealthier crowd (with a higher concentration of married couples). Whereas West 115th/116th is where you'll find more KJDs, as well as students who are shoestringing their way through law school. How much truth is there to this?

Thanks!


not much at all..

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Wed May 10, 2017 11:11 pm

DogsAndWriting wrote:Another housing question:

Can anyone speak to the general student composition of each housing option? So I know that UAH is open to all grad students, whereas the other housing options on the CLS website are exclusively for law students. But besides that, are you more likely to see a particular kind of student at a particular building?

For example, I'm going to conjecture and say that Lenfest and Lionsgate is home to an older, wealthier crowd (with a higher concentration of married couples). Whereas West 115th/116th is where you'll find more KJDs, as well as students who are shoestringing their way through law school. How much truth is there to this?

Thanks!


Lol, nobody in law school is really "old," except maybe a few LLMs. Lenfest has a large population of LLMs, many of them couples. But it also has plenty of normal JDs, including some KJDs.

Also just throwing it out there that the composition of the building is pretty meaningless. This isn't a dorm. It's pretty unlikely that the people who become your friends will live in your building no matter where you live. Social relationships are built at school, especially in your section and in clubs, not on your hall. Chances are you won't even see the people who live in the apartments around you very often.

The only reason it would matter is for roommates which are irrelevant in Lenfest/Lionsgate and don't vary consistently enough to have any predictive value in UAH buildings

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Dr_OIT
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Dr_OIT » Thu May 11, 2017 8:33 pm

Hey all. Incoming 1L here. I've been working in NYC for the last 3 years and have been lucky to be able to save money and live with extended family out in Queens. I assumed that I would move into University housing at the beginning of 1L year, so that I'd be close to campus and save time on what would be a 2.5 hour commute (round-trip). It's also beginning to get a little cramped, since I've been sharing a 1BR with 2-3 people.. Needless to say, I've gotten very excited about the idea of moving into my own space (even an apartment share would afford more privacy). I also figure it'd be nicer to be closer to friends/classmates during the stress of 1L, instead of being alone over an hour away.

But now that the loans are feeling real and scary, I'm questioning that choice. In short, just for 1L, I'd have to take out roughly $55,000 in loans if I were to live on campus (to cover rest of tuition and estimated COL). If I stayed where I am now, that would drop to about $43,000. That's assuming $1350 rent over 9 months for the first year. Across three years, that would be about $36,000 in savings on loans... The numbers make me hesitate moving, but I wonder if the convenience, peace, and comfort would be worth it? (When I lay it out, it feels like a silly question... :| )

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Fri May 12, 2017 1:11 am

Look every situation is different, but I don't think you want to be wasting 2.5 hours commuting during 1L. I'd live in Columbia housing for 1L and then after that you can reevaluate. Living there one year doesn't commit you to doing it for three years




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