Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Sun May 08, 2016 11:26 am

Does anyone know when the first GSF payment typically comes in

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Sun May 08, 2016 11:31 am

DCfilterDC wrote:Does anyone know when the first GSF payment typically comes in

June 1st :evil:

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White Dwarf
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby White Dwarf » Sun May 08, 2016 11:41 am

With 3 months of rent factored in, GSF is going to leave me with $1.12/day for all my other expenses... and I have to take the subway 10x/week.

Image

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Sun May 08, 2016 11:46 am

Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:Does anyone know when the first GSF payment typically comes in

June 1st :evil:


Fuck.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Sun May 08, 2016 12:10 pm

White Dwarf wrote:With 3 months of rent factored in, GSF is going to leave me with $1.12/day for all my other expenses... and I have to take the subway 10x/week.

Image

You max your grad plus loans? If you haven't hit the budget cap, request like $2k

naenae2745
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby naenae2745 » Tue May 10, 2016 12:26 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:I'll cosign the fact that 90% of the administration is awful, but I owe shoutouts to (1) Juliana Utley, (2) Marsha Diamond, (3) Annie Green, and (4) the one library dude with the dreadlock pineapple who always works the graveyard shift, all of whom helped with things I needed without letting bureaucratic bullshit get in the way, which is a sorely rare skill at this school. And given my seething contempt for, well, everyone and everything, I would hope posterity finds those endorsements meaningful.


Anne green? Seriously? She's fine at what she does but she doesn't do anything more. There's a reason why Columbia's clerkship rate is so low compared to that of peer schools and she's added to that problem. She's basically been on maternity leave for the past two years, leaving the office in the highly incapable hands of her "assistant," Jeff. Having talked to students from other schools regarding their clerkship office, Columbia's clerkship office is terrible. They give you the clerkship handbook and basically tell you to figure out the rest.

Fwiw, she can be helpful when it comes to interview prep, but again she does the bare minimum, which is exactly why Columbia's clerkship office is bare minimum.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 10, 2016 1:05 pm

naenae2745 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:I'll cosign the fact that 90% of the administration is awful, but I owe shoutouts to (1) Juliana Utley, (2) Marsha Diamond, (3) Annie Green, and (4) the one library dude with the dreadlock pineapple who always works the graveyard shift, all of whom helped with things I needed without letting bureaucratic bullshit get in the way, which is a sorely rare skill at this school. And given my seething contempt for, well, everyone and everything, I would hope posterity finds those endorsements meaningful.


Anne green? Seriously? She's fine at what she does but she doesn't do anything more. There's a reason why Columbia's clerkship rate is so low compared to that of peer schools and she's added to that problem. She's basically been on maternity leave for the past two years, leaving the office in the highly incapable hands of her "assistant," Jeff. Having talked to students from other schools regarding their clerkship office, Columbia's clerkship office is terrible. They give you the clerkship handbook and basically tell you to figure out the rest.

Fwiw, she can be helpful when it comes to interview prep, but again she does the bare minimum, which is exactly why Columbia's clerkship office is bare minimum.


some fair criticisms, esp compared to UVA and chicago clerkship offices, but I'm impressed with how well our class has done in the clerkship game. those 9-mo numbers are pretty meaningless for CLS, which has far more alumni clerks than first years, and attributing the depressed ABA to anne is missing the direction of the post-plan system

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smaug
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby smaug » Tue May 10, 2016 1:08 pm

Anne Green is awful. There's a good reason for the clerkship improvement but it's not what you think.

Sounds like CLS is going down the shitter. Kinda sad.

naenae2745
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby naenae2745 » Tue May 10, 2016 1:47 pm

This year's class has done well with clerkships but every single person I've spoken to did it with little to no support from Anne green and the clerkship office. This upsets me even more given that the clerkship office will most likely get credit for it.

WhiteCollarBlueShirt
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby WhiteCollarBlueShirt » Tue May 10, 2016 1:55 pm

naenae2745 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:I'll cosign the fact that 90% of the administration is awful, but I owe shoutouts to (1) Juliana Utley, (2) Marsha Diamond, (3) Annie Green, and (4) the one library dude with the dreadlock pineapple who always works the graveyard shift, all of whom helped with things I needed without letting bureaucratic bullshit get in the way, which is a sorely rare skill at this school. And given my seething contempt for, well, everyone and everything, I would hope posterity finds those endorsements meaningful.


Anne green? Seriously? She's fine at what she does but she doesn't do anything more. There's a reason why Columbia's clerkship rate is so low compared to that of peer schools and she's added to that problem. She's basically been on maternity leave for the past two years, leaving the office in the highly incapable hands of her "assistant," Jeff. Having talked to students from other schools regarding their clerkship office, Columbia's clerkship office is terrible. They give you the clerkship handbook and basically tell you to figure out the rest.

Fwiw, she can be helpful when it comes to interview prep, but again she does the bare minimum, which is exactly why Columbia's clerkship office is bare minimum.


On a different of those 4, seriously? Things must be changing for the better, because the other person recommended using bids on firms that had gone bankrupt, litigation boutiques and prestigious federal jobs to a lower median student who loathed westlaw/lexis (i.e., interested in corporate).

TBF, the lit boutiques and fed jobs she recommended would've been sweet if I was Kent at the time (or even Stone).

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YCDAACH
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby YCDAACH » Tue May 10, 2016 2:00 pm

This has kind of been asked in some form before but with all the talk about the school not having the resources to support students interested in clerkships, would you say that the same is true for students seeking more general govt and PI work?

Columbia has one of the strongest LRAP programs from what I can tell, but not as many class offerings in PI /govt subjects. I also can't tell if the alumni network and career offices are as strong in those areas. (Comparing CLS to Berkeley if that helps but any info is useful.)

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Tue May 10, 2016 2:15 pm

YCDAACH wrote:This has kind of been asked in some form before but with all the talk about the school not having the resources to support students interested in clerkships, would you say that the same is true for students seeking more general govt and PI work?

Columbia has one of the strongest LRAP programs from what I can tell, but not as many class offerings in PI /govt subjects. I also can't tell if the alumni network and career offices are as strong in those areas. (Comparing CLS to Berkeley if that helps but any info is useful.)

Course selection, while important, is largely meaningless to learning how to practice. CLS has the classes you need to gain a rudimentary understanding any type of law. Skills-based courses, clinics, and externships are more important to learn how to practice, and you should most definitely take them/do them.

FWIW, as a PI person. I find "Law and ____" classes are largely meaningless. (channeling my inner Henry Monaghan)

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 10, 2016 3:58 pm

smaug wrote:Anne Green is awful. There's a good reason for the clerkship improvement but it's not what you think.

Sounds like CLS is going down the shitter. Kinda sad.


Yea I def don't think she's responsible for improvement, esp considering she's been basically absent, but the cls ABA numbers for 2014-15 are about more than the actions or inactions of the clerkship office.

If cls wanted to take clerkships seriously, they could actually designate several qualified persons in charge of clerkships alone and not clerkships+journal+student services; they could actively pressure faculty to call and proffer recommendations to students and censure those that never come through or ignore high achieving students; they could use the extensive network with sdny and edny in addition to the externship programs; ect. But after all that since almost everyone wants to do m&a/finance/cap markets and thinks clerkships are a money sinkhole anyway, it might not change anything.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Tue May 10, 2016 4:21 pm

I'd pursue a clerkship harder if there was more institutional support. I have the materials together, but I don't have a close enough relationship with my LOR professors to ask them to make calls. Goldberg is too busy, Gerrard doesn't know any sitting judges, and my other letter is a 1L professor who also wrote my transfer LOR and we haven't spoken since she said she'd have the letter ready when I need it. I just don't think I can get one without Kent or a professor who could make a call.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby naenae2745 » Tue May 10, 2016 5:02 pm

I'd consider reaching out to past employers, friends who may be clerking or have clerked, etc. Try to think outside the faculty sphere if you can. I'd also consider speaking with faculty who didn't write your recommendation, but you are nonetheless close with. This may sound counterintuitive, but I've heard of several students finding success with this approach.

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Tue May 10, 2016 5:14 pm

YCDAACH wrote:This has kind of been asked in some form before but with all the talk about the school not having the resources to support students interested in clerkships, would you say that the same is true for students seeking more general govt and PI work?

Columbia has one of the strongest LRAP programs from what I can tell, but not as many class offerings in PI /govt subjects. I also can't tell if the alumni network and career offices are as strong in those areas. (Comparing CLS to Berkeley if that helps but any info is useful.)


I mean I don't really know what other schools' offices are like, but CLS really doesn't have that great of PI support. They have one fantastic person (Kurtz), and basically everything is built around her. Everyone wants her face time, and it's easy to connect with her, but it becomes apparent that you're kind of on your own besides for her. I wouldn't really say that there's any "support," but I also don't think "support" is required if you know what you want to do, and are willing to invest in the outcome.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Tue May 10, 2016 5:16 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
YCDAACH wrote:This has kind of been asked in some form before but with all the talk about the school not having the resources to support students interested in clerkships, would you say that the same is true for students seeking more general govt and PI work?

Columbia has one of the strongest LRAP programs from what I can tell, but not as many class offerings in PI /govt subjects. I also can't tell if the alumni network and career offices are as strong in those areas. (Comparing CLS to Berkeley if that helps but any info is useful.)


I mean I don't really know what other schools' offices are like, but CLS really doesn't have that great of PI support. They have one fantastic person (Kurtz), and basically everything is built around her. Everyone wants her face time, and it's easy to connect with her, but it becomes apparent that you're kind of on your own besides for her. I wouldn't really say that there's any "support," but I also don't think "support" is required if you know what you want to do, and are willing to invest in the outcome.

+1

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Bearlyalive » Tue May 10, 2016 5:35 pm

Ya'll are making me nervous. One of the consistent themes at ASWs was how complicated the clerkship application process has gotten in recent years, and how invaluable it is to have support from the school. Is it still fair to say that the clerkship process is navigable with help from 2L/3Ls and alums?

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smaug
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby smaug » Tue May 10, 2016 5:40 pm

Bearlyalive wrote:Ya'll are making me nervous. One of the consistent themes at ASWs was how complicated the clerkship application process has gotten in recent years, and how invaluable it is to have support from the school. Is it still fair to say that the clerkship process is navigable with help from 2L/3Ls and alums?

You'll be fine but also this isn't something you should worry about as a 0L.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 10, 2016 5:42 pm

Bearlyalive wrote:Ya'll are making me nervous. One of the consistent themes at ASWs was how complicated the clerkship application process has gotten in recent years, and how invaluable it is to have support from the school. Is it still fair to say that the clerkship process is navigable with help from 2L/3Ls and alums?


Its navigable in the sense that oscar isn't that complicated and your profs have assistants that are familiar with the letter writing and submission process and from there its pretty ad hoc.

Its emotionally grueling and demoralizing, though, and you apply to hundreds of judges to get a handful of interviews. There are all sorts of "support" networks like designated clerkship upper class advisors, professors assigned to different minority groups, ect. But all that crap only takes you so far. You've gotta do well in school and stuff regardless--not everyone at columbia is entitled to a federal clerkship.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Bearlyalive » Tue May 10, 2016 5:52 pm

smaug wrote:
Bearlyalive wrote:Ya'll are making me nervous. One of the consistent themes at ASWs was how complicated the clerkship application process has gotten in recent years, and how invaluable it is to have support from the school. Is it still fair to say that the clerkship process is navigable with help from 2L/3Ls and alums?

You'll be fine but also this isn't something you should worry about as a 0L.


I'm not really. If I don't end up clerking it won't be the end of the world. But the negativity ITT with regards to the administration was definitely concerning. I'd rather know up front to not bother going to them with questions if I'm not going to get helpful advice, or if I'd get better advice from asking other students.

Thanks everyone.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 10, 2016 5:56 pm

Bearlyalive wrote:
smaug wrote:
Bearlyalive wrote:Ya'll are making me nervous. One of the consistent themes at ASWs was how complicated the clerkship application process has gotten in recent years, and how invaluable it is to have support from the school. Is it still fair to say that the clerkship process is navigable with help from 2L/3Ls and alums?

You'll be fine but also this isn't something you should worry about as a 0L.


I'm not really. If I don't end up clerking it won't be the end of the world. But the negativity ITT with regards to the administration was definitely concerning. I'd rather know up front to not bother going to them with questions if I'm not going to get helpful advice, or if I'd get better advice from asking other students.

Thanks everyone.


The student community is an incredible resource, as are student organizations and your professors.

The administration tends to do more harm than help, but its good to put yourself on their radar (like letting rachel know you are interested in honors positions, or anne know you want to clerk) so they can reach out when they have something. But as smaug said dont think about this stuff now.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue May 10, 2016 6:36 pm

Fuck, I tried to say ONE nice thing about someone at this school and it turned into fifteen posts about how deep all you prestige tweakers can jam the clerkship needle into your vein.

Shhh, it'll be okay. Your note is going to change the face of legal scholarship. Look, your firm moved up in Vault!

naenae2745
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby naenae2745 » Tue May 10, 2016 8:02 pm

lol someone's really bitter and/or sensitive. chill out, dude. no one's bashing on saying nice things. there are a ton of people at CLS (administrators, faculty, students, etc.) who make this place great. However, there's nothing wrong either with calling it how it is. If someone or some people are doing a shitty job then they're going to (and should) get called out for it, especially given our unreasonably high tuition costs.

LOL also at trying to turn this into a matter of prestige. Again, someone's either really bitter and/or sensitive.

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smaug
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby smaug » Tue May 10, 2016 8:21 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Fuck, I tried to say ONE nice thing about someone at this school and it turned into fifteen posts about how deep all you prestige tweakers can jam the clerkship needle into your vein.

Shhh, it'll be okay. Your note is going to change the face of legal scholarship. Look, your firm moved up in Vault!

more basking in the irony of multiple people not realizing who does shit at the school and who doesn't

and yeah anne green was always nice and tried to be helpful

she just doesn't care and doesn't really know what to do




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