Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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wilt
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby wilt » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:23 pm

How common is it for people to be taking on sticker debt, especially if they want to do Biglaw? My understanding from the people I met at Admitted Students was that they either had trust fund parents or a Hamilton.

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almondjoy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby almondjoy » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:23 pm

White Dwarf wrote:Is it normal to feel totally unprepared for a Constitutional Law final ~2 weeks out from the test?

I know the nuts and bolts of what we covered, I just don't know how they translate to a 4-hour final. Seems like I have to be missing a lot of stuff. My outline is ~15 pages, and a lot of that is fluff (my other 3 outlines are 25-40 pages, and feel much more rigorous).


This was con law for me too. I had a ton of notes from class but when I got down to studying for the exam and taking practice tests the whole semester boiled down to like 4-5 doctrinal tests that could be covered in a 10 page outline.

dabigchina
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby dabigchina » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:25 pm

White Dwarf wrote:Is it normal to feel totally unprepared for a Constitutional Law final ~2 weeks out from the test?

I know the nuts and bolts of what we covered, I just don't know how they translate to a 4-hour final. Seems like I have to be missing a lot of stuff. My outline is ~15 pages, and a lot of that is fluff (my other 3 outlines are 25-40 pages, and feel much more rigorous).


This x 1 Million

My outline is tied with crim as the shortest and the only reason it's as long as it is is because I frankensteined it together from 3 other outlines.

Also are we supposed to be getting doctrine out of Lawrence v TX and Obergefell? Cause I still don't know any doctrine.

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smaug
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby smaug » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:26 pm

wilt wrote:How common is it for people to be taking on sticker debt, especially if they want to do Biglaw? My understanding from the people I met at Admitted Students was that they either had trust fund parents or a Hamilton.

hard to tell

look up the indebtedness figures and understand that the % of people who get 1/2 or better scholarships is very small

means that lots of people have family money, but also that a significant group has sticker (or near sticker) debt, without much in between

TheoO
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby TheoO » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:26 pm

wilt wrote:How common is it for people to be taking on sticker debt, especially if they want to do Biglaw? My understanding from the people I met at Admitted Students was that they either had trust fund parents or a Hamilton.


it could just be that those people are the most vocal.

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smaug
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby smaug » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:27 pm

dabigchina wrote:
White Dwarf wrote:Is it normal to feel totally unprepared for a Constitutional Law final ~2 weeks out from the test?

I know the nuts and bolts of what we covered, I just don't know how they translate to a 4-hour final. Seems like I have to be missing a lot of stuff. My outline is ~15 pages, and a lot of that is fluff (my other 3 outlines are 25-40 pages, and feel much more rigorous).


This x 1 Million

My outline is tied with crim as the shortest and the only reason it's as long as it is is because I frankensteined it together from 3 other outlines.

Also are we supposed to be getting doctrine out of Lawrence v TX and Obergefell? Cause I still don't know any doctrine.

just recognize that there are relatively few things you can be asked for con law. don't make it harder than it needs to be. there will be some sort of quasi-protected class. there will be some sort of commerce clause-y thing. there might be some third thing.

that's about it, though.

dabigchina
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby dabigchina » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:27 pm

wilt wrote:How common is it for people to be taking on sticker debt, especially if they want to do Biglaw? My understanding from the people I met at Admitted Students was that they either had trust fund parents or a Hamilton.

All of my friends are taking on debt. I have no idea if they are sticker or not because we don't talk about scholarships.

Weren't you the guy with the full ride to Cornell? Go to Cornell, seriously.

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smaug
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby smaug » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:29 pm

dabigchina wrote:
wilt wrote:How common is it for people to be taking on sticker debt, especially if they want to do Biglaw? My understanding from the people I met at Admitted Students was that they either had trust fund parents or a Hamilton.

All of my friends are taking on debt. I have no idea if they are sticker or not because we don't talk about scholarships.

Weren't you the guy with the full ride to Cornell? Go to Cornell, seriously.

oh i'm lacking context

if you have a full ride at cornell seriously take it and don't look back

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wilt
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby wilt » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:33 pm

smaug wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
wilt wrote:How common is it for people to be taking on sticker debt, especially if they want to do Biglaw? My understanding from the people I met at Admitted Students was that they either had trust fund parents or a Hamilton.

All of my friends are taking on debt. I have no idea if they are sticker or not because we don't talk about scholarships.

Weren't you the guy with the full ride to Cornell? Go to Cornell, seriously.

oh i'm lacking context

if you have a full ride at cornell seriously take it and don't look back


I'm female. But yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Thanks.

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:39 pm

wilt wrote:I'm female. But yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Thanks.


Yeah, you will never hear someone say, "I have 300k in debt and it was worth it." The % paying sticker is misleading, because a lot of people have family money covering a significant portion. I would honestly say a small % are actually fully debt financing.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:51 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
wilt wrote:I'm female. But yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Thanks.


Yeah, you will never hear someone say, "I have 300k in debt and it was worth it." The % paying sticker is misleading, because a lot of people have family money covering a significant portion. I would honestly say a small % are actually fully debt financing.


Eh. Its a greater number paying near sticker than you might think would be reasonable. I have multiple friends borrowing or who borrowed literally 300k. And yea, some of them even justify the decision and say it was worth it (like people who had really bad grades and still got V50s and think they would have struck out at another school). But many others have help, either all or COL.

I'm one of the few people I know in the "middle" position with about $140k in federal debt (plus some small private loans).

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:55 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
wilt wrote:I'm female. But yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Thanks.


Yeah, you will never hear someone say, "I have 300k in debt and it was worth it." The % paying sticker is misleading, because a lot of people have family money covering a significant portion. I would honestly say a small % are actually fully debt financing.


Eh. Its a greater number paying near sticker than you might think would be reasonable. I have multiple friends borrowing or who borrowed literally 300k. And yea, some of them even justify the decision and say it was worth it (like people who had really bad grades and still got V50s and think they would have struck out at another school). But many others have help, either all or COL.

I'm one of the few people I know in the "middle" position with about $140k in federal debt (plus some small private loans).


I know a few who are fully debt financing their tuition, but have CoL covered, but don't know anyone who actually is doing the 300k. Interesting to think that it's more than I realized. I guess in the V50 situation it might actually end up being worth it for them. If they would've struck out otherwise, the fact that they had 150k less debt wouldn't really make them any less screwed

Burlington4174
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Burlington4174 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:39 pm

I think there are a decent number of us that did not receive a Butler or Hamilton but still got some money from Columbia. Personally did not get either, but I still received a merit/need-based package of just under 90K, which was comparable to the offers I received from other T14 (and a lot more than NYU offered me), and makes the debt a lot more manageable.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:10 pm

Burlington4174 wrote:I think there are a decent number of us that did not receive a Butler or Hamilton but still got some money from Columbia. Personally did not get either, but I still received a merit/need-based package of just under 90K, which was comparable to the offers I received from other T14 (and a lot more than NYU offered me), and makes the debt a lot more manageable.


I've actually seen a lot more non-named sums in the $70-100k range this cycle and last than in previous years. Good trend IMO

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:51 pm

wilt wrote:How common is it for people to be taking on sticker debt, especially if they want to do Biglaw? My understanding from the people I met at Admitted Students was that they either had trust fund parents or a Hamilton.


It's very common. I think it's like 76% of the school graduates with debt, and those folks have an average debt load of $154,000. 52% of students get no scholarship money. So yeah, a decent chunk is doing sticker or close.

DO NOT take sticker debt out of here. If you sincerely feel the need to become a lawyer and you would take out over $200k of debt, go to WUSTL for free instead.

curry1
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby curry1 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:12 pm

Is Columbia's JD/LLM program with LSE still operational, or is the page on the website just a relic? If so, did any of you elect to participate in the program or know anyone who has? Thanks.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:47 pm

curry1 wrote:Is Columbia's JD/LLM program with LSE still operational, or is the page on the website just a relic? If so, did any of you elect to participate in the program or know anyone who has? Thanks.


Yea a bunch of people did. Including at least one TLSer, if that person is still around. Feel free to pm me I can speak to the experiences of my friends on the program.

curry1
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby curry1 » Sun May 01, 2016 1:15 am

jbagelboy wrote:
curry1 wrote:Is Columbia's JD/LLM program with LSE still operational, or is the page on the website just a relic? If so, did any of you elect to participate in the program or know anyone who has? Thanks.


Yea a bunch of people did. Including at least one TLSer, if that person is still around. Feel free to pm me I can speak to the experiences of my friends on the program.

Thanks, PM'd!

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freakingoutlalala
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby freakingoutlalala » Sun May 01, 2016 2:28 pm

How soon before first day of classes do 1Ls know which textbooks theyll need? (is there time to look for used books)

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Sun May 01, 2016 3:24 pm

freakingoutlalala wrote:How soon before first day of classes do 1Ls know which textbooks theyll need? (is there time to look for used books)


ranges on when some professors upload syllabi to course works. But you'll have time once you get here to find used copies of your books. Really not something to worry about

dabigchina
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby dabigchina » Sun May 01, 2016 3:33 pm

freakingoutlalala wrote:How soon before first day of classes do 1Ls know which textbooks theyll need? (is there time to look for used books)

you have 3 weeks of legal methods to figure out textbooks.

also, don't buy the legal methods textbook like everyone else. just scan it at the library or something.

or just not read because nobody fails.

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Sun May 01, 2016 11:01 pm

dabigchina wrote:
freakingoutlalala wrote:How soon before first day of classes do 1Ls know which textbooks theyll need? (is there time to look for used books)

you have 3 weeks of legal methods to figure out textbooks.

also, don't buy the legal methods textbook like everyone else. just scan it at the library or something.

or just not read because nobody fails.


I mean this is an exaggeration because some people do fail the first time and have to redo the exam, which I imagine is not particularly enjoyable when dealing with 1L fall at the same time. So you should do what you need to do to avoid that (hint: it doesn't require that much effort).

But yes, scanning the Legal Methods book at the library is TCR, or at the very least, buy a used copy even if you normally hate highlighting and margin notes.

And as the others said, you will have plenty of time to get books for the other classes during Legal Methods and plenty of 2Ls and 3Ls willing to sell you their used ones

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maroon175
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby maroon175 » Mon May 02, 2016 11:48 am

TheoO wrote:two weeks is plenty of time.


hardly when you have 3 other exams to prepare for and take before the con law exam

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somethingElse
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby somethingElse » Tue May 03, 2016 3:45 pm

Possibly stupid and/or unanswerable housing Q for you guys:

For UAH, how shitty/unshitty are the chances that you get a 2 bedroom if you put down one roommate (i.e. list their name and shit)? And do those chances change at all if you put down two roommates (for getting a 3 bedroom)? Tyia

EDIT: Oh, and also, are the two bedrooms generally more expensive than the three, and so on etc?

equang
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby equang » Tue May 03, 2016 8:45 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
equang wrote:
TheoO wrote:If you're fairly determined not to do biglaw and focus on non-profit, I would say got for HLS. Otherwise, see if you can get some kind of public interest scholarship from NYU. It's not that CLS is bad for non-profits --there are plenty doing it-- it's that those schools have a better reputation for that kind of stuff.


Right... here's the sort of wrench in the works for me. I went to an undergrad with a massive alumni network. I really like seeing people in public here and there wearing sweaters from my undergrad. I also see that Ivy league schools have joint networking events (this slightly lowers my perception of the NYU network). Putting those two ideas together makes me think that an Ivy LS degree would give me that sort of networking/psychological enjoyment. Also, I didn't feel really challenged as a student (double-majored in molecular biology and philosophy). I have a (perhaps wrong) feeling that schools like HLS, CLS would give me more of the academic rigor that I am craving. I sleepwalked through my neurobiology and logic courses where literally the complaining of other students would water down the course requirements.

Those two factors are putting HLS and CLS at the one and two positions on my school list. I realize that if I do take out 200k in debt, that I might end up jobless and maybe just ruined for life. But I feel like I would rather take the chance to strike out doing the kind of work that I want to do, than go "safe" (not that this will require a HLS or CLS degree).

I realize prestige isn't everything, especially when it comes to social justice causes. But in this world, there are decision-makers and decision-followers.... With all that said, spending money that isn't yours, in the form of student loans, isn't something that should be taken lightly.

Basically, I'm aiming to retake 173 to go 175+ and give myself a solid shot at HLS. If I stay in my current line of work, I think I would have an outside shot at RTK... but I am questioning my fit for PI since I come from a middle/upper-middle class family who has never struggled, and might have more of an ideological attachment than genuine... but I feel committed to stay away from work that I don't want to do.


Wait what? Are you considering offers between HLS, CLS and NYU, or hoping to retake to have these offers?


Planning to retake in September to hopefully have those offers. Maybe I should get off TLS and focus on that for now...




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