Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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White Dwarf
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby White Dwarf » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Don't a bunch of random TTTTs have top ranked moot court teams?

Either way, that kind of behavior is disappointing. Just plays into the (mostly) unfair stereotypes about CLS students.

TheoO
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby TheoO » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:46 pm

something similar happened during the NYC law school mixer. I had to walk away from a number of uncomfortable comments by clsers with regard to school ranking. the comments were being whispered between students, but everyone could hear them in the crowded bar

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:18 pm

TheoO wrote:something similar happened during the NYC law school mixer. I had to walk away from a number of uncomfortable comments by clsers with regard to school ranking. the comments were being whispered between students, but everyone could hear them in the crowded bar

Jfc that's horrible. I hang out with only a handful of law students and forget how unchill others can be

Phil Brooks
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Phil Brooks » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:48 pm

White Dwarf wrote:Don't a bunch of random TTTTs have top ranked moot court teams?

Either way, that kind of behavior is disappointing. Just plays into the (mostly) unfair stereotypes about CLS students.


Did you really have to slip in "random TTTTs" when making that point? And did your only objection to the snootiness have to be that the snootiness makes other CLS students look bad, as opposed to just being bad behavior in itself?

Self-awareness much ...

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:51 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:
White Dwarf wrote:Don't a bunch of random TTTTs have top ranked moot court teams?

Either way, that kind of behavior is disappointing. Just plays into the (mostly) unfair stereotypes about CLS students.


Did you really have to slip in "random TTTTs" when making that point? And did your only objection to the snootiness have to be that the snootiness makes other CLS students look bad, as opposed to just being bad behavior in itself?

Self-awareness much ...

Calm down. Now you're just whining.

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White Dwarf
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby White Dwarf » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:18 pm

+1
Last edited by White Dwarf on Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:19 pm

Out the moot court

Also I haven't really seen the cls prestige whoring other than ironically/sarcastically, but its a shame that anyone would do that especially to someone from GeorgeTTTown.

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:41 pm

Obviously I've only gone to CLS so don't have a lot of data to compare to, but the resources here go well beyond the top 25 school I went to as an undergrad. Between the amazing faculty, the speakers we get, events hosted by the school/student orgs, it feels like the school cares a lot about giving students a really good educational environment. I'm somewhat skeptical that I would feel that way if I'd gone to one of the lower-ranked law schools that I could have gotten a full scholarship to

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby TheoO » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:42 pm

GoneSouth wrote:Obviously I've only gone to CLS so don't have a lot of data to compare to, but the resources here go well beyond the top 25 school I went to as an undergrad. Between the amazing faculty, the speakers we get, events hosted by the school/student orgs, it feels like the school cares a lot about giving students a really good educational environment. I'm somewhat skeptical that I would feel that way if I'd gone to one of the lower-ranked law schools that I could have gotten a full scholarship to


Yea, those other Yale educated, Rhode Scholar lower tier professors are terrible.

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:48 pm

TheoO wrote:
GoneSouth wrote:Obviously I've only gone to CLS so don't have a lot of data to compare to, but the resources here go well beyond the top 25 school I went to as an undergrad. Between the amazing faculty, the speakers we get, events hosted by the school/student orgs, it feels like the school cares a lot about giving students a really good educational environment. I'm somewhat skeptical that I would feel that way if I'd gone to one of the lower-ranked law schools that I could have gotten a full scholarship to


Yea, those other Yale educated, Rhode Scholar lower tier professors are terrible.


I mean, like I said, maybe I'm wrong. It's a completely different vibe than my undergrad. And of the law professors at my undergrad that I met, which at the time had a T30 law school, the professors here are different

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dabigchina
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby dabigchina » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:47 pm

White Dwarf wrote:Don't a bunch of random TTTTs have top ranked moot court teams?

Either way, that kind of behavior is disappointing. Just plays into the (mostly) unfair stereotypes about CLS students.


It's kind of sad that I'm not more surprised.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:51 pm

dabigchina wrote:
White Dwarf wrote:Don't a bunch of random TTTTs have top ranked moot court teams?

Either way, that kind of behavior is disappointing. Just plays into the (mostly) unfair stereotypes about CLS students.


It's kind of sad that I'm not more surprised.

Yeah I just take refuge in the thought that the weight of their ineptitude will come crashing down a few months into their first year at a preftigous v13 firm

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:27 am

GoneSouth wrote:Obviously I've only gone to CLS so don't have a lot of data to compare to, but the resources here go well beyond the top 25 school I went to as an undergrad. Between the amazing faculty, the speakers we get, events hosted by the school/student orgs, it feels like the school cares a lot about giving students a really good educational environment. I'm somewhat skeptical that I would feel that way if I'd gone to one of the lower-ranked law schools that I could have gotten a full scholarship to


What resources, exactly? The WUSTLs and Emorys of the world have smart professors and lunch talks about making sure transgender Palestinians can get late-term abortions in affordable housing or whatever. The school really actually provides remarkably little. It's not like they have a bunch of expensive equipment and machinery you get to use; you pay $60k to sit in a class with a book (that cost $200) listening to a lecture.

Somehow my $12k undergrad figured out how to hire professors without massive egos and career counselors who actually helped you get a job.

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LetsGoMets
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby LetsGoMets » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:04 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
GoneSouth wrote:Obviously I've only gone to CLS so don't have a lot of data to compare to, but the resources here go well beyond the top 25 school I went to as an undergrad. Between the amazing faculty, the speakers we get, events hosted by the school/student orgs, it feels like the school cares a lot about giving students a really good educational environment. I'm somewhat skeptical that I would feel that way if I'd gone to one of the lower-ranked law schools that I could have gotten a full scholarship to


What resources, exactly? The WUSTLs and Emorys of the world have smart professors and lunch talks about making sure transgender Palestinians can get late-term abortions in affordable housing or whatever. The school really actually provides remarkably little. It's not like they have a bunch of expensive equipment and machinery you get to use; you pay $60k to sit in a class with a book (that cost $200) listening to a lecture.

Somehow my $12k undergrad figured out how to hire professors without massive egos and career counselors who actually helped you get a job.


180, particularly for the bolded. Although I will say that in my limited 1L experience the issue with my professors has been less massive ego and more an astounding level of social awkwardness when they're not lecturing.

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White Dwarf
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby White Dwarf » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:20 am

The most famous/noteworthy person who came to speak at my $6K undergrad during my 4 years there was... *drumroll* ... ESPN reporter Sal Paolantonio!

The professors were pretty iffy too. Lots of grumpy old white guys who had impressive degrees, but never really amounted to anything in their fields. And lots of social-justicey types who were super passionate about trendy topics, but couldn't tell you who fought who in the Civil War.

The career office was non-existent. All they really did was look over resumes, collect your LORs, and tell you what job sites to search. It was about as bare-bones as it gets. That's what I assumed lower-tier law schools are like (cost-minimizing everywhere), but of course I have zero experience at any of them.

Anyway, compared to my college, Columbia offers an amazing academic experience.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby TheoO » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:22 am

White Dwarf wrote:The most famous/noteworthy person who came to speak at my $6K undergrad during my 4 years there was... *drumroll* ... ESPN reporter Sal Paolantonio!

The professors were pretty iffy too. Lots of grumpy old white guys who had impressive degrees, but never really amounted to anything in their fields. And lots of social-justicey types who were super passionate about trendy topics, but couldn't tell you who fought who in the Civil War.

The career office was non-existent. All they really did was look over resumes, collect your LORs, and tell you what job sites to search. It was about as bare-bones as it gets. That's what I assumed lower-tier law schools are like (cost-minimizing everywhere), but of course I have zero experience at any of them.

Anyway, compared to my college, Columbia offers an amazing academic experience.


Yea, but it's still 6K a year versus 60k. And the average law student is looking to go into practice, not become an academic, so the

Maybe my negativity about the school is clouding my perception, but I've always felt that it's those expensive, highly-praised professors who seem to be the least able to teach their respective class in a coherent fashion. They seem more likely to use class time to do what they want, leaving the students on their own to digest the material. These academics have a profound knowledge and experience in their field, but they are mostly teaching foundation courses that can be taught by virtually anyone. I would say adjuncts would be just as good at teaching a basic Torts or Contracts course as a prof who gets paid $400k a year and gets pampered in other ways (one of my profs said CLS pays for his first class flights and all he has to do is say something is at least somewhat research related).

Somehow my $12k undergrad figured out how to hire professors without massive egos and career counselors who actually helped you get a job.


My state college career counsellors sucked hard. I don't think staff at these schools is ever all that helpful. Mostly made of lazy middle-aged women.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:01 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
GoneSouth wrote:Obviously I've only gone to CLS so don't have a lot of data to compare to, but the resources here go well beyond the top 25 school I went to as an undergrad. Between the amazing faculty, the speakers we get, events hosted by the school/student orgs, it feels like the school cares a lot about giving students a really good educational environment. I'm somewhat skeptical that I would feel that way if I'd gone to one of the lower-ranked law schools that I could have gotten a full scholarship to


What resources, exactly? The WUSTLs and Emorys of the world have smart professors and lunch talks about making sure transgender Palestinians can get late-term abortions in affordable housing or whatever. The school really actually provides remarkably little. It's not like they have a bunch of expensive equipment and machinery you get to use; you pay $60k to sit in a class with a book (that cost $200) listening to a lecture.

Somehow my $12k undergrad figured out how to hire professors without massive egos and career counselors who actually helped you get a job.


We actually do get a ton of perks, but admittedly it's tough to tell how many of those come from corporate law firms and how many come from the school itself. I do think we have a much richer campus life than a lot of other law schools, in terms of support for student orgs, pro bono, clinical offerings, speakers, social events, ect. But a lot of that funding comes either directly or indirectly from Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Schulte, ect., and the law school institution is more of a channel between them and us.

That being said, having spent time at other "prestigious" law schools in other countries, I can confirm that CLS and its peers really do spoil us with infrastructure and resources, many times in ways you don't even consider. For example, I always took for granted that each seat in JG has a laptop charger and each classroom had an audiovisual setup. That's actually a huge deal and you don't appreciate it until you don't have it. Most professors actually show up for class on time, hold office hours, and some even respond to emails. That's a huge deal comparatively. If you ask the school for things on behalf of a student org, they will generally give them to you. I got three free trips to Europe out of CLS and free lunch almost every day of the week (not to mention open bars almost every week of the year), which is completely unheard of.

I attended a college that spoiled its students too, moreso than CLS, and that also cost an arm and a leg to attend. So I don't have the comparative experience of an affordable public school. But it really is amazing how many resources there are if you engage with them and try to use them.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:23 am

jbagelboy wrote:We actually do get a ton of perks, but admittedly it's tough to tell how many of those come from corporate law firms and how many come from the school itself. I do think we have a much richer campus life than a lot of other law schools, in terms of support for student orgs, pro bono, clinical offerings, speakers, social events, ect. But a lot of that funding comes either directly or indirectly from Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Schulte, ect., and the law school institution is more of a channel between them and us.

That being said, having spent time at other "prestigious" law schools in other countries, I can confirm that CLS and its peers really do spoil us with infrastructure and resources, many times in ways you don't even consider. For example, I always took for granted that each seat in JG has a laptop charger and each classroom had an audiovisual setup. That's actually a huge deal and you don't appreciate it until you don't have it. Most professors actually show up for class on time, hold office hours, and some even respond to emails. That's a huge deal comparatively. If you ask the school for things on behalf of a student org, they will generally give them to you. I got three free trips to Europe out of CLS and free lunch almost every day of the week (not to mention open bars almost every week of the year), which is completely unheard of.

I attended a college that spoiled its students too, moreso than CLS, and that also cost an arm and a leg to attend. So I don't have the comparative experience of an affordable public school. But it really is amazing how many resources there are if you engage with them and try to use them.


Okay help me on the math here.

(The roti roll/lukewarm pizza I steal three times a week) + (outlets in the seats) + (the two hours a week Tom Merrill will put sunshine in your life) + (???) = $60,000

Somehow I get the impression the school wasn't a wasteland back in the '70s when it cost $3,000.

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ugg
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby ugg » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:36 am

Lionsgate, 400, or 420? Or none of the above.... Also trying to keep a little dog. Also, should I request law school housing or is that not really a thing?
Last edited by ugg on Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:37 am

Why is this Columbia is great/sucks pissing contest still going on?

TheoO
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby TheoO » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:38 pm

Nebby wrote:Why is this Columbia is great/sucks pissing contest still going on?


Because it's always been going on.

TheoO
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby TheoO » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:37 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Okay help me on the math here.

(The roti roll/lukewarm pizza I steal three times a week) + (outlets in the seats) + (the two hours a week Tom Merrill will put sunshine in your life) + (???) = $60,000

Somehow I get the impression the school wasn't a wasteland back in the '70s when it cost $3,000.



I mean, it doesn't seem like JBagelboy was necessarily defending the tuition.

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dabigchina
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby dabigchina » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:28 pm

ugg wrote:Lionsgate, 400, or 420? Or none of the above.... Also trying to keep a little dog. Also, should I request law school housing or is that not really a thing?

I would seriously consider not getting lawschool housing

1. You get way more for your money for UAH. Lionsgate in particular is stupid expensive IIRC.
2. It's difficult to get UAH housing once u start in law school housing. The reverse is probably true but I have never heard of anybody clamoring to get into law school housing (see #1).

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ph5354a
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby ph5354a » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:30 pm

dabigchina wrote:
ugg wrote:Lionsgate, 400, or 420? Or none of the above.... Also trying to keep a little dog. Also, should I request law school housing or is that not really a thing?

I would seriously consider not getting lawschool housing

1. You get way more for your money for UAH. Lionsgate in particular is stupid expensive IIRC.
2. It's difficult to get UAH housing once u start in law school housing. The reverse is probably true but I have never heard of anybody clamoring to get into law school housing (see #1).


Ditto. UAH apartments tend to be larger and less expensive. The dog won't be a problem either way (subject to your roommates, if you have them).

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:34 pm

TheoO wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Okay help me on the math here.

(The roti roll/lukewarm pizza I steal three times a week) + (outlets in the seats) + (the two hours a week Tom Merrill will put sunshine in your life) + (???) = $60,000

Somehow I get the impression the school wasn't a wasteland back in the '70s when it cost $3,000.



I mean, it doesn't seem like JBagelboy was necessarily defending the tuition.


Quite the opposite. The school is criminally, offensively expensive. the board of directors should fire half the administration and make faculty tenure contingent on teaching 3, rather than 2, full courses each year, to ultimately reduce the roll by one third (or transition all others to adjunct status).

But all the other schools should do this too, and they won't. Do you think it's different at Penn or Harvard or Chicago or Stanford? Do you think they are less egregious offenders? Because they aren't. Mono's burning hatred of CLS seems predicated on some mystical notion that the student experience is uniquely harrowing compared to alternatives. Knowing what I know about the peer schools and what their students say about them (both in the US and abroad), I just don't think that's realistic or accurate. So telling people "don't go here" is not doing them any real justice.




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