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DCfilterDC wrote:Can anyone speak to the differences of doing a clinic vs. an externship. Is it preferable to do one over the other in a given semester? Or 2L vs. 3L? Can you take them at the same time?

Nebby wrote:

DCfilterDC wrote:Can anyone speak to the differences of doing a clinic vs. an externship. Is it preferable to do one over the other in a given semester? Or 2L vs. 3L? Can you take them at the same time?

I preferred externships because it gave me outside experience, which also meant references outside of Columbia. For my PI job search, two of my references came from 2L spring externship and one from 2L summer.

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.

Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.

Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.

What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.

jbagelboy wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.

Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.

What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.

most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others

jbagelboy wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.

Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.

What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.

most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.

Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.

What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.

most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others

Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

jbagelboy wrote: most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others

Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.

Just to be clear, you were one of those who turned down a bunch of money to come here at sticker, right? And now you're spreading the gospel of don't be like me?

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

dabigchina wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.

Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.

What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.

most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others

My only problem is CLS is it's stupid expensive compared to other law schools and the extra expense is only really worth it if you want to practice in NYC.

If your goals align/the cost doesn't matter to you, there's probably no better school to be at outside of HYS.

jbagelboy wrote:

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

jbagelboy wrote: most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others

Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.

Just to be clear, you were one of those who turned down a bunch of money to come here at sticker, right? And now you're spreading the gospel of don't be like me?

he's the families who could pay full freight
just saying

Nebby wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?

jbagelboy wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

no, that sounds awful. I know a handful of people that would say something like that but generally no its not representative.

it might be that specifically with regard to moot courts--especially international moot courts--CLS is pretty dominant, even over other 'top' schools. So if your school doesn't have as traditionally strong a moot court team, then maybe idk. But no one would say because your school had a slightly different # on some survey

michigan law for example had a v strong team in the moot court I did. but if I saw a team that was hardly ever at the semifinals from some other school, say northwestern or stanford or whatever, I might assume they weren't as institutionally strong. doesn't mean shit really though

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

LetsGoMets wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:

jbagelboy wrote: most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others

Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.

Just to be clear, you were one of those who turned down a bunch of money to come here at sticker, right? And now you're spreading the gospel of don't be like me?

he's the families who could pay full freight
just saying

Yup. I'm very lucky to be in that position (especially coming from an income level that normally couldn't do that).

Doesn't change the calculus in a vacuum. I had a $75k scholarship to go to UVA. That's a way better choice than sticker debt here, and most admits who have applied broadly have something at least that good on the table.

Phil Brooks wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

no, that sounds awful. I know a handful of people that would say something like that but generally no its not representative.

it might be that specifically with regard to moot courts--especially international moot courts--CLS is pretty dominant, even over other 'top' schools. So if your school doesn't have as traditionally strong a moot court team, then maybe idk. But no one would say because your school had a slightly different # on some survey

michigan law for example had a v strong team in the moot court I did. but if I saw a team that was hardly ever at the semifinals from some other school, say northwestern or stanford or whatever, I might assume they weren't as institutionally strong. doesn't mean shit really though

Thanks. Good to know.

jbagelboy wrote: UVA in-state with $75k is usually better than CLS at sticker. But that doesn't mean Columbia isn't worth, in some cases, $75k more than UVA.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

jbagelboy wrote: UVA in-state with $75k is usually better than CLS at sticker. But that doesn't mean Columbia isn't worth, in some cases, $75k more than UVA.

I think the punchline here is that the real number is going to be way, way higher than 75k. Higher sticker tuition and higher cost of living, plus all the interest on those borrowed dollars, really add up.

Phil Brooks wrote:

Nebby wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?

I don't want to out specific Columbia students.

jbagelboy wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Doesn't change the calculus in a vacuum. I had a $75k scholarship to go to UVA. That's a way better choice than sticker debt here, and most admits who have applied broadly have something at least that good on the table.

But tell that to the 15% of each UVA alumni class doing school funded temp gigs making $18/hr.

UVA in-state with $75k is usually better than CLS at sticker. But that doesn't mean Columbia isn't worth, in some cases, $75k more than UVA.

Nebby wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:

Nebby wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?

I don't want to out specific Columbia students.

You're not outing anyone if you tell us what moot court it was, but I understand your hesitance. More importantly, did you beat them?

Phil Brooks wrote:

Nebby wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:

Nebby wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?

I don't want to out specific Columbia students.

You're not outing anyone if you tell us what moot court it was, but I understand your hesitance. More importantly, did you beat them?

We did, thanks.