Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:05 am

DCfilterDC wrote:Can anyone speak to the differences of doing a clinic vs. an externship. Is it preferable to do one over the other in a given semester? Or 2L vs. 3L? Can you take them at the same time?

I preferred externships because it gave me outside experience, which also meant references outside of Columbia. For my PI job search, two of my references came from 2L spring externship and one from 2L summer.

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:07 am

Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:Can anyone speak to the differences of doing a clinic vs. an externship. Is it preferable to do one over the other in a given semester? Or 2L vs. 3L? Can you take them at the same time?

I preferred externships because it gave me outside experience, which also meant references outside of Columbia. For my PI job search, two of my references came from 2L spring externship and one from 2L summer.


That was my general feeling about it, so cool, hopefully I get externships for next year

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:09 am

HEY YOU GUYS, interested in the abolition of fossil fuels or how to build a climate change regulatory regime that practically transitions fuels? You should come to the climate change symposium today from 4 to 7! No need to RSVP

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:16 am

LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.


Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.


What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:12 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.


Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.


What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.


most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others

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dabigchina
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby dabigchina » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:13 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.


Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.


What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.


most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others


My only problem is CLS is it's stupid expensive compared to other law schools and the extra expense is only really worth it if you want to practice in NYC.

If your goals align/the cost doesn't matter to you, there's probably no better school to be at outside of HYS.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:46 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.


Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.


What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.


most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others


Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby LetsGoMets » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:29 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.


Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.


What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.


most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others


Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.


Just to be clear, you were one of those who turned down a bunch of money to come here at sticker, right? And now you're spreading the gospel of don't be like me?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:09 pm

LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others


Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.


Just to be clear, you were one of those who turned down a bunch of money to come here at sticker, right? And now you're spreading the gospel of don't be like me?


he's the families who could pay full freight
just saying

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Phil Brooks » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:16 pm

How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:17 pm

Mono is the guy who went to Princeton and then told other people that Ivies are a scam

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:18 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?
Last edited by Nebby on Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:18 pm

dabigchina wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
I don't need to rationalize anything. I've gotten to a point of pessimism where any day the partners don't throw a cannister of sarin into my office will be a good day. I preempted Biglaw's alienation of my friends and family by doing that myself. My only true exit option is the railing of the GW Bridge. Your low-effort flame doesn't stack up.


Come on, man, 0Ls read this stuff, you're gonna drive them away.

But seriously, this is dark.


What you call a bug, I call a feature.

You can't judge until you join me in shouting "DON'T GO HERE!" to the admitted students in JG lobby. Look me in the eye and tell me it doesn't warm your heart.


most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others


My only problem is CLS is it's stupid expensive compared to other law schools and the extra expense is only really worth it if you want to practice in NYC.

If your goals align/the cost doesn't matter to you, there's probably no better school to be at outside of HYS.


I meant more in terms of the experience of the students. like columbia and new york are objectively fun and desirable places to go to school, putting aside the opportunities it offers for its students and cost. Obviously no one should take out a lot of loans for this. But I'm not talking about the us news and world report magazine and the schools that it chooses for whatever reason to be ahead or behind CLS. you have to take out a lot of loans for those schools too so its the same shit

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:21 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.


no, that sounds awful. I know a handful of people that would say something like that but generally no its not representative.

it might be that specifically with regard to moot courts--especially international moot courts--CLS is pretty dominant, even over other 'top' schools. So if your school doesn't have as traditionally strong a moot court team, then maybe idk. But no one would say because your school had a slightly different # on some survey

michigan law for example had a v strong team in the moot court I did. but if I saw a team that was hardly ever at the semifinals from some other school, say northwestern or stanford or whatever, I might assume they weren't as institutionally strong. doesn't mean shit really though

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:22 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others


Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.


Just to be clear, you were one of those who turned down a bunch of money to come here at sticker, right? And now you're spreading the gospel of don't be like me?


he's the families who could pay full freight
just saying


Yup. I'm very lucky to be in that position (especially coming from an income level that normally couldn't do that).

Doesn't change the calculus in a vacuum. I had a $75k scholarship to go to UVA. That's a way better choice than sticker debt here, and most admits who have applied broadly have something at least that good on the table.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Phil Brooks » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:23 pm

Nebby wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?


I don't want to out specific Columbia students.

Phil Brooks
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Phil Brooks » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:24 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.


no, that sounds awful. I know a handful of people that would say something like that but generally no its not representative.

it might be that specifically with regard to moot courts--especially international moot courts--CLS is pretty dominant, even over other 'top' schools. So if your school doesn't have as traditionally strong a moot court team, then maybe idk. But no one would say because your school had a slightly different # on some survey

michigan law for example had a v strong team in the moot court I did. but if I saw a team that was hardly ever at the semifinals from some other school, say northwestern or stanford or whatever, I might assume they weren't as institutionally strong. doesn't mean shit really though


Thanks. Good to know.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:29 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:most ppl actually like being at CLS tho. they recognize a lot of it is bullshit but they'd rather be here than some other school

I don't really tell people not to come to columbia, I tell them they should reconsider whether they really want to go to law school. once they've taken the plunge this is a softer landing than others


Nah, even among the people who should go to law school, it's rare that CLS the best choice. Really only for Butler/Hamilton, strong splitters, and people whose families could pay full freight. Most everyone else could get a sizeable T14 scholly or a full ride at WUSTL. The offers that people turn down to go into $250k debt out of here are crazy.


Just to be clear, you were one of those who turned down a bunch of money to come here at sticker, right? And now you're spreading the gospel of don't be like me?


he's the families who could pay full freight
just saying


Yup. I'm very lucky to be in that position (especially coming from an income level that normally couldn't do that).

Doesn't change the calculus in a vacuum. I had a $75k scholarship to go to UVA. That's a way better choice than sticker debt here, and most admits who have applied broadly have something at least that good on the table.


But tell that to the 15% of each UVA alumni class doing school funded temp gigs making $18/hr.

UVA in-state with $75k is usually better than CLS at sticker. But that doesn't mean Columbia isn't worth, in some cases, $75k more than UVA.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:31 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.


no, that sounds awful. I know a handful of people that would say something like that but generally no its not representative.

it might be that specifically with regard to moot courts--especially international moot courts--CLS is pretty dominant, even over other 'top' schools. So if your school doesn't have as traditionally strong a moot court team, then maybe idk. But no one would say because your school had a slightly different # on some survey

michigan law for example had a v strong team in the moot court I did. but if I saw a team that was hardly ever at the semifinals from some other school, say northwestern or stanford or whatever, I might assume they weren't as institutionally strong. doesn't mean shit really though


Thanks. Good to know.


Then again I don't know most people at CLS anymore and I haven't done an int'l moot court for a couple years. Maybe everyone's a douchebag now.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:44 pm

jbagelboy wrote:UVA in-state with $75k is usually better than CLS at sticker. But that doesn't mean Columbia isn't worth, in some cases, $75k more than UVA.

I think the punchline here is that the real number is going to be way, way higher than 75k. Higher sticker tuition and higher cost of living, plus all the interest on those borrowed dollars, really add up.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:46 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:UVA in-state with $75k is usually better than CLS at sticker. But that doesn't mean Columbia isn't worth, in some cases, $75k more than UVA.

I think the punchline here is that the real number is going to be way, way higher than 75k. Higher sticker tuition and higher cost of living, plus all the interest on those borrowed dollars, really add up.


Yea, absolutely.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:52 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?


I don't want to out specific Columbia students.

You're not outing anyone if you tell us what moot court it was, but I understand your hesitance. More importantly, did you beat them?

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:01 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Doesn't change the calculus in a vacuum. I had a $75k scholarship to go to UVA. That's a way better choice than sticker debt here, and most admits who have applied broadly have something at least that good on the table.


But tell that to the 15% of each UVA alumni class doing school funded temp gigs making $18/hr.

UVA in-state with $75k is usually better than CLS at sticker. But that doesn't mean Columbia isn't worth, in some cases, $75k more than UVA.


A crappy outcome at $100k of debt is an acceptable risk to take in a way that a crappy outcome at $250k is not. The former is a struggle, the latter is something close to life-ruining.

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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Phil Brooks » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:09 pm

Nebby wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?


I don't want to out specific Columbia students.

You're not outing anyone if you tell us what moot court it was, but I understand your hesitance. More importantly, did you beat them?


We did, thanks.

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:10 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:How snooty are the people at Columbia?

This is a serious question. I was at a moot court competition two months ago and we hit Columbia in the semi-finals. I go to a lower T14. The Columbia students were visibly and audibly snickering when they found out that a team from the lower T14 had made it to the semi-finals, and I overheard one of them say, "Oh, [this low-T14] should be a piece of cake."

Is this attitude representative? I would like to give the vast majority of other CLS students the benefit of the doubt.

What moot competition?


I don't want to out specific Columbia students.

You're not outing anyone if you tell us what moot court it was, but I understand your hesitance. More importantly, did you beat them?


We did, thanks.

Usually snooty people are compensating for their lack of skill




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