Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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John_Luther1989
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby John_Luther1989 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:12 am

jbagelboy wrote:Does anyone know what "Title IV Student Refund" means and why it shows up as a charge on the account, not a credit?


They remove the money from your account and send it to your bank/cut you a check. Since the money is being removed from the account, it's a charge. Is this the first year you've had loans, bro?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:20 am

John_Luther1989 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Does anyone know what "Title IV Student Refund" means and why it shows up as a charge on the account, not a credit?


They remove the money from your account and send it to your bank/cut you a check. Since the money is being removed from the account, it's a charge. Is this the first year you've had loans, bro?


So 2L and 3L fall I received a small "credit" equal to surplus of my loans over the amount due (tuition + fees - scholarship). That credit then disburses into my checking account via direct deposit. This is different: on the right side of the ledger on SSOL, a charge for about $1,200 appeared with no corresponding direct deposit or money received by me. Is the school giving me $1,200 or charging me $1,200 additional? Maybe I just have to wait and see if anything hits my bank acct?

I don't understand why its happening in late March.

ETA: called and figured it out. no worries

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ph5354a
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby ph5354a » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:52 pm

Any good supplement recommendations for Shechtman's Criminal Adjudication class? His "random cases in textbook he hates + coursepack" approach has me all kinds of scatterbrained.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:57 pm

ph5354a wrote:Any good supplement recommendations for Shechtman's Criminal Adjudication class? His "random cases in textbook he hates + coursepack" approach has me all kinds of scatterbrained.

I think I just used the E&E and it covered most of what he did.

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maroon175
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby maroon175 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:49 pm

Could anyone speak to clinic applications? Apart from the Human Rights or Immigration clinic, do the applications have to be extremely thought-out or exceed a page?

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:29 pm

Any advice on how to find someone to sublet to this summer?

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White Dwarf
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby White Dwarf » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:37 pm

Skipped my afternoon classes to grind out a bunch of cover letters for summer jobs. 5 hours, and a dozen sent applications later, I got an offer via email from my top choice, where I interviewed right before spring break.

Just glad that's over with. Really under-estimated the stress of finding a summer job.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:39 pm

White Dwarf wrote:Skipped my afternoon classes to grind out a bunch of cover letters for summer jobs. 5 hours, and a dozen sent applications later, I got an offer via email from my top choice, where I interviewed right before spring break.

Just glad that's over with. Really under-estimated the stress of finding a summer job.


All the 1L job search (which was lol, but not as lol as the actual job spending most of the day mass mailing) taught me was that most of the do-gooder PI places are completely full of shit.

"We can't serve all of our clients due to being understaffed, we're backlogged for months, we really need as many people as possible working on these cases."
"Oh that's cool. Can I work for you for free?"
"LOLNO DING"

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:41 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
White Dwarf wrote:Skipped my afternoon classes to grind out a bunch of cover letters for summer jobs. 5 hours, and a dozen sent applications later, I got an offer via email from my top choice, where I interviewed right before spring break.

Just glad that's over with. Really under-estimated the stress of finding a summer job.


All the 1L job search (which was lol, but not as lol as the actual job spending most of the day mass mailing) taught me was that most of the do-gooder PI places are completely full of shit.

"We can't serve all of our clients due to being understaffed, we're backlogged for months, we really need as many people as possible working on these cases."
"Oh that's cool. Can I work for you for free?"
"LOLNO DING"


Right, cause supervising and training dumb 1Ls doesn't take a bunch of their time

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:00 pm

As I recall, the interns were given a 30-minute intro to what the organization did, where to file shit, and what things you're not supposed to ask domestic violence victims. Everything else was, theoretically, in a giant binder they gave us. I never heard from the woman that gave that lecture at any point in the next 10 weeks.

There wasn't a lot of training necessary because most of the job was helping barely English-literate green card holders and illegal immigrants to fill out basic forms. Not that they really gave a fuck. I mean, more power to the noble doing good work when most of us will undoubtedly make the world a worse place, but everyone peaced out at like 4:30 and were basically done working by 3.

But if you don't get a 1L SA (and you probably won't), you might as well get one of these DGAF jobs. If one of the 200+ mass mails I had sent during that job wound up being the job I relied on, I would've forever thanked my lucky stars to not be whatever it is the strivers do.

ETA: Worth mentioning: Regular practice was to just outright make shit up to fit within guidelines. If you had to arrive before Date X to keep your food stamps for example, the attorney would say something like "If you arrived before Date X, you're eligible for food stamps. Now what date did you arrive smuggled in the back of a truck?" The ones whose English was better usually caught on. If their English wasn't so good, then sometimes they'd say "after Date X" and the attorney would make a second attempt, saying "Now I want to be clear--on this form that we're filing, I am going to type the date you tell me you arrived in the U.S. If that date is before Date X, you will get to keep your food stamps. If it's after Date X, you will not be eligible for food stamps. Now Mrs. Client, can you tell me, what date did you arrive in the U.S.?"

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BizBro
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby BizBro » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:05 am

Legitimate question: How bad will it hurt to lose dean's cup two years in a row?

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LetsGoMets
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby LetsGoMets » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:18 am

BizBro wrote:Legitimate question: How bad will it hurt to lose dean's cup two years in a row?


Not as bad as being stuck at US News #6 seven years in a row

goingtoschool
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby goingtoschool » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:16 pm

Only 20 students a year or so are clerking (which, by the way, is a shitty idea for 95% of people). Most of the AIII clerks are Stone.


If you could elaborate, why is clerking such a bad idea?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:49 pm

goingtoschool wrote:
Only 20 students a year or so are clerking (which, by the way, is a shitty idea for 95% of people). Most of the AIII clerks are Stone.


If you could elaborate, why is clerking such a bad idea?


Actually, like 50 people per year are clerking, they just aren't all starting immediately after graduation. Historically about 18% of the class will eventually clerk.

Clerking is practically useless for corporate attorneys, and probably 3/4 of CLS students are going transactional/corporate.
Last edited by jbagelboy on Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stoopkid13
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby stoopkid13 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:51 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:As I recall, the interns were given a 30-minute intro to what the organization did, where to file shit, and what things you're not supposed to ask domestic violence victims. Everything else was, theoretically, in a giant binder they gave us. I never heard from the woman that gave that lecture at any point in the next 10 weeks.

There wasn't a lot of training necessary because most of the job was helping barely English-literate green card holders and illegal immigrants to fill out basic forms. Not that they really gave a fuck. I mean, more power to the noble doing good work when most of us will undoubtedly make the world a worse place, but everyone peaced out at like 4:30 and were basically done working by 3.

But if you don't get a 1L SA (and you probably won't), you might as well get one of these DGAF jobs. If one of the 200+ mass mails I had sent during that job wound up being the job I relied on, I would've forever thanked my lucky stars to not be whatever it is the strivers do.

ETA: Worth mentioning: Regular practice was to just outright make shit up to fit within guidelines. If you had to arrive before Date X to keep your food stamps for example, the attorney would say something like "If you arrived before Date X, you're eligible for food stamps. Now what date did you arrive smuggled in the back of a truck?" The ones whose English was better usually caught on. If their English wasn't so good, then sometimes they'd say "after Date X" and the attorney would make a second attempt, saying "Now I want to be clear--on this form that we're filing, I am going to type the date you tell me you arrived in the U.S. If that date is before Date X, you will get to keep your food stamps. If it's after Date X, you will not be eligible for food stamps. Now Mrs. Client, can you tell me, what date did you arrive in the U.S.?"


I'm sure like most internships, experiences vary widely. Just because one particular PI group seemed lax doesn't mean that most "most do-gooder PI places are completely full of shit."

stoopkid13
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby stoopkid13 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:55 pm

goingtoschool wrote:
Only 20 students a year or so are clerking (which, by the way, is a shitty idea for 95% of people). Most of the AIII clerks are Stone.


If you could elaborate, why is clerking such a bad idea?


I think the idea is that its mostly just a resume sticker/preftige thing. It's a good experience and signals that you're qualified. But in the end, if you're going to work for a firm, is it really a year better spent than a year working for the firm? I think if you want to go into academia it might help, but that's not the 95% of people. I guess put another way, if you're going to be an M&A lawyer, which is better, spending a year doing M&A work as an associate or spending a year researching random cases as a clerk?

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nicknar
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby nicknar » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:59 pm

Does anyone know whether the guaranteed housing for all law students applies to couples housing as well? And if not, do married couples get priority? (My SO and I aren't married but are already living together and we co-own a vehicle, which appears to qualify us, but I wonder if that makes us a lower priority somehow)

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LetsGoMets
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby LetsGoMets » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:30 pm

stoopkid13 wrote:
goingtoschool wrote:
Only 20 students a year or so are clerking (which, by the way, is a shitty idea for 95% of people). Most of the AIII clerks are Stone.


If you could elaborate, why is clerking such a bad idea?


I think the idea is that its mostly just a resume sticker/preftige thing. It's a good experience and signals that you're qualified. But in the end, if you're going to work for a firm, is it really a year better spent than a year working for the firm? I think if you want to go into academia it might help, but that's not the 95% of people. I guess put another way, if you're going to be an M&A lawyer, which is better, spending a year doing M&A work as an associate or spending a year researching random cases as a clerk?


For transactional, no real point to being a Westlaw fiend for a year (except to escape temporarily from biglaw), but for litigation, it's both a skill and credential builder. Speakers at more than a few lunch talks I've been to have said aspiring litigators should at least strongly consider clerking, and most of them say their own clerkships were among the best experiences of their legal careers.

Also, clerkship bonus is $$

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smaug
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby smaug » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:39 pm

LetsGoMets wrote:
Also, clerkship bonus is $$

you lose more than you get back

but it'll help you lateral and is good signaling

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:26 am

stoopkid13 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:As I recall, the interns were given a 30-minute intro to what the organization did, where to file shit, and what things you're not supposed to ask domestic violence victims. Everything else was, theoretically, in a giant binder they gave us. I never heard from the woman that gave that lecture at any point in the next 10 weeks.

There wasn't a lot of training necessary because most of the job was helping barely English-literate green card holders and illegal immigrants to fill out basic forms. Not that they really gave a fuck. I mean, more power to the noble doing good work when most of us will undoubtedly make the world a worse place, but everyone peaced out at like 4:30 and were basically done working by 3.

But if you don't get a 1L SA (and you probably won't), you might as well get one of these DGAF jobs. If one of the 200+ mass mails I had sent during that job wound up being the job I relied on, I would've forever thanked my lucky stars to not be whatever it is the strivers do.

ETA: Worth mentioning: Regular practice was to just outright make shit up to fit within guidelines. If you had to arrive before Date X to keep your food stamps for example, the attorney would say something like "If you arrived before Date X, you're eligible for food stamps. Now what date did you arrive smuggled in the back of a truck?" The ones whose English was better usually caught on. If their English wasn't so good, then sometimes they'd say "after Date X" and the attorney would make a second attempt, saying "Now I want to be clear--on this form that we're filing, I am going to type the date you tell me you arrived in the U.S. If that date is before Date X, you will get to keep your food stamps. If it's after Date X, you will not be eligible for food stamps. Now Mrs. Client, can you tell me, what date did you arrive in the U.S.?"


I'm sure like most internships, experiences vary widely. Just because one particular PI group seemed lax doesn't mean that most "most do-gooder PI places are completely full of shit."


They're not full of shit because they were lax. Matter of fact, they're the only ones I can verify as not full of shit because they actually hired a bunch of interns hoping to make a dent in their backlog. The ones that are full of shit are the ones who claim to need SO MUCH HELP! and are understaffed and can't do half of what they would like who then turn around and go "Um, a B in Torts? Excuse me, we have standards here."

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:43 am

stoopkid13 wrote:
goingtoschool wrote:
Only 20 students a year or so are clerking (which, by the way, is a shitty idea for 95% of people). Most of the AIII clerks are Stone.


If you could elaborate, why is clerking such a bad idea?


I think the idea is that its mostly just a resume sticker/preftige thing. It's a good experience and signals that you're qualified. But in the end, if you're going to work for a firm, is it really a year better spent than a year working for the firm? I think if you want to go into academia it might help, but that's not the 95% of people. I guess put another way, if you're going to be an M&A lawyer, which is better, spending a year doing M&A work as an associate or spending a year researching random cases as a clerk?


You give up a tangible cost (about $45k on net) for a credential that maybe makes you a marginally better associate (but who cares, you're not making partner, so the chance of your quality being materially relevant to your Biglaw career is minimal) and maybe makes you marginally more marketable (but you were already preftigious enough to clerk, so I'm not sure it's helping besides the fact that other people are getting it and you've sucked yourself into an arms race). And any possible benefit to your marketability is dwarfed by the marketability you already lost, because LOL, you decided to be a litigator in 2016.

In general, consider me a giant skeptic of anything hawked by Boomers with a large upfront cost and vaguely-described "benefits" that no one seems to be able to quantify.

pa1901
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby pa1901 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:10 pm

GoneSouth wrote:Any advice on how to find someone to sublet to this summer?


I used the Off Campus Student Housing Sublet posting site that they sent emails about and got a call from someone literally within two hours of my post being approved and being up on their list. So if you're in UAH definitely post it there.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:47 am

BizBro wrote:Legitimate question: How bad will it hurt to lose dean's cup two years in a row?


suck it

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White Dwarf
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby White Dwarf » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:20 am

How competitive is Dean's Cup in terms of talent level?

I played some in college (on a bad D3 team), and was going to try-out, but had a prior commitment this week.

GoneSouth
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Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:03 am

jbagelboy wrote:
BizBro wrote:Legitimate question: How bad will it hurt to lose dean's cup two years in a row?


suck it


What's the deal with NYU supposedly pulling out of the Deans' Cup next year? Pretty lame




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