Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
kingpin101
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:24 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby kingpin101 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:37 pm

Honestly though, how common is it for professors to blow past the deadline? I'm a 1L and only have a single grade back.

User avatar
John_Luther1989
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:10 am

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby John_Luther1989 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:38 pm

kingpin101 wrote:Honestly though, how common is it for professors to blow past the deadline? I'm a 1L and only have a single grade back.


Very common, unfortunately. There is really no disincentive to it since the punishment - basically a naughty list sent to professors - is laughably inadequate. That said, there is very little you can do to influence bad actors with tenure, or otherwise reasonably secure in their jobs, to be considerate of students.

User avatar
DCfilterDC
Posts: 2665
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:28 pm

Does anyone now how many decimals are used in calculating honors? Is an A- just a 3.6, or is it 3.67, 3.6666, etc.?

User avatar
John_Luther1989
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:10 am

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby John_Luther1989 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:40 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:Does anyone now how many decimals are used in calculating honors? Is an A- just a 3.6, or is it 3.67, 3.6666, etc.?


Standard plus=.33, minus=.67

I want to also note DO NOT PUT YOUR GPA ON YOUR TRANSCRIPT. I don't care how proud you are. It is against the rules, will get you a conversation with Petal you don't want, and will make you that jerk.

Also, don't do some fuckboy stuff like "Kent Anticipated, 2015-2016." That'll just get you punched.

jrc223
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jrc223 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:42 pm

lol at "kent anticipated"

we have three grades (well some of us do)

User avatar
DCfilterDC
Posts: 2665
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:42 pm

John_Luther1989 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:Does anyone now how many decimals are used in calculating honors? Is an A- just a 3.6, or is it 3.67, 3.6666, etc.?


Standard plus=.33, minus=.67

I want to also note DO NOT PUT YOUR GPA ON YOUR TRANSCRIPT. I don't care how proud you are. It is against the rules, will get you a conversation with Petal you don't want, and will make you that jerk.

Also, don't do some fuckboy stuff like "Kent Anticipated, 2015-2016." That'll just get you punched.


Oh of course for both those things. I was honestly just curious, thanks though.

User avatar
John_Luther1989
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:10 am

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby John_Luther1989 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:46 pm

Sorry, that non GPA calc stuff wasn't aimed at you; just general commentary.

Some of the current 3Ls did the most egregious shit and since I happen to know some recruiters I heard all about it. Made for some awkward hallway conversations.

User avatar
DCfilterDC
Posts: 2665
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:49 pm

John_Luther1989 wrote:Sorry, that non GPA calc stuff wasn't aimed at you; just general commentary.

Some of the current 3Ls did the most egregious shit and since I happen to know some recruiters I heard all about it. Made for some awkward hallway conversations.


All good. I'm not surprised to hear that though...

User avatar
MCFC
Posts: 8506
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby MCFC » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:35 pm

John_Luther1989 wrote:
I want to also note DO NOT PUT YOUR GPA ON YOUR TRANSCRIPT. I don't care how proud you are. It is against the rules, will get you a conversation with Petal you don't want, and will make you that jerk.


I would caveat this with it depends on the market. Like at OCI, obviously not. If mass mailing though, I think it's fair game, especially if non-NYC. I had a few interviews in smaller markets with people who just assumed mine was pretty bad since I left it off.

User avatar
John_Luther1989
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:10 am

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby John_Luther1989 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:51 pm

Do not put your GPA on your resume. Any firm that comes to EIP should know the situation institutionally regardless of when they get the applications. If you want them to know you're smart, put Columbia Law School in bold. If you want to double confirm it, send your transcript.

I'm not saying this just to say it. I'm Kent, Stone, and on pace for Kent again this year and I don't have my GPA on my resume.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15475
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:56 pm

John_Luther1989 wrote:Do not put your GPA on your resume. Any firm that comes to EIP should know the situation institutionally regardless of when they get the applications. If you want them to know you're smart, put Columbia Law School in bold. If you want to double confirm it, send your transcript.

I'm not saying this just to say it. I'm Kent, Stone, and on pace for Kent again this year and I don't have my GPA on my resume.

And if they don't come to EIP?

User avatar
MCFC
Posts: 8506
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby MCFC » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:05 pm

Right, to be clear, I was talking non EIP.

User avatar
LetsGoMets
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby LetsGoMets » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:12 pm

John_Luther1989 wrote:Do not put your GPA on your resume. Any firm that comes to EIP should know the situation institutionally regardless of when they get the applications. If you want them to know you're smart, put Columbia Law School in bold. If you want to double confirm it, send your transcript.

I'm not saying this just to say it. I'm Kent, Stone, and on pace for Kent again this year and I don't have my GPA on my resume.


So you're saying Kent Anticipated, 2015-2016?

Sorry, couldn't resist

User avatar
Nebby
Posts: 21881
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:01 pm

JL seems like a real winner

john_brown
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:34 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby john_brown » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:25 pm

Could somebody explain the taboo re: GPAs on your resume? Not saying I want to do it -- but what's the harm, exactly?

User avatar
Nebby
Posts: 21881
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby Nebby » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:11 pm

john_brown wrote:Could somebody explain the taboo re: GPAs on your resume? Not saying I want to do it -- but what's the harm, exactly?

CSO has some weirdo aversion to it with firms. I decided to follow the rule when looking for a PI job, even though there's really no reason to, and got tons of interviews regardless of the lack of GPA on resume.

User avatar
MCFC
Posts: 8506
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby MCFC » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:27 pm

john_brown wrote:Could somebody explain the taboo re: GPAs on your resume? Not saying I want to do it -- but what's the harm, exactly?

It's more than a taboo; there's an OCS rule that it can't appear on the resume that they send to firms for EIP. They'll email you and tell you to take it off. The idea is that you walk into the EIP interview with the employer having seen your resume, but without knowing your grades. You then hand them your transcript when you walk into the interview.

The idea is to have everyone be on more equal footing, and to be clear, I have no problem with it, and I followed the rule.

My point was just that I know there's a convention that if your GPA is below 3.0, don't put it on your resume. So my worry when mass mailing (one borne out by my experiences) was that someone would quickly open the email, scan the resume, see no GPA, assume it was 2.something, and send it to the trash.

GoneSouth
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby GoneSouth » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:25 am

Does anyone know how the upperclass curve compares to the 1L curve?

jrc223
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jrc223 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:55 am

also, rough guess as to what gpa is top 20%, 15%, 10%, etc.?

cheaptilts
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:29 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby cheaptilts » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:59 am

MCFC wrote:
john_brown wrote:Could somebody explain the taboo re: GPAs on your resume? Not saying I want to do it -- but what's the harm, exactly?

It's more than a taboo; there's an OCS rule that it can't appear on the resume that they send to firms for EIP. They'll email you and tell you to take it off. The idea is that you walk into the EIP interview with the employer having seen your resume, but without knowing your grades. You then hand them your transcript when you walk into the interview.

The idea is to have everyone be on more equal footing, and to be clear, I have no problem with it, and I followed the rule.

My point was just that I know there's a convention that if your GPA is below 3.0, don't put it on your resume. So my worry when mass mailing (one borne out by my experiences) was that someone would quickly open the email, scan the resume, see no GPA, assume it was 2.something, and send it to the trash.


I don't/didn't attend Columbia, so I have no dog in the fight, but isn't this a little strange? Wouldn't this simply give "double-ivies," those with high undergrad GPAs, or those with interesting/prestigious work experience a leg up? If the school's worried about employers not judging someone before they walk in based on law grades, wouldn't employers just pass judgment based on things they can see?

Eh, I'm probably missing something here so the answer doesn't really matter

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:06 am

cheaptilts wrote:
MCFC wrote:
john_brown wrote:Could somebody explain the taboo re: GPAs on your resume? Not saying I want to do it -- but what's the harm, exactly?

It's more than a taboo; there's an OCS rule that it can't appear on the resume that they send to firms for EIP. They'll email you and tell you to take it off. The idea is that you walk into the EIP interview with the employer having seen your resume, but without knowing your grades. You then hand them your transcript when you walk into the interview.

The idea is to have everyone be on more equal footing, and to be clear, I have no problem with it, and I followed the rule.

My point was just that I know there's a convention that if your GPA is below 3.0, don't put it on your resume. So my worry when mass mailing (one borne out by my experiences) was that someone would quickly open the email, scan the resume, see no GPA, assume it was 2.something, and send it to the trash.


I don't/didn't attend Columbia, so I have no dog in the fight, but isn't this a little strange? Wouldn't this simply give "double-ivies," those with high undergrad GPAs, or those with interesting/prestigious work experience a leg up? If the school's worried about employers not judging someone before they walk in based on law grades, wouldn't employers just pass judgment based on things they can see?

Eh, I'm probably missing something here so the answer doesn't really matter


Not really. Most CLS students came from elite undergraduate institutions or have something else on their resume to recommend them. Naturally people with more experience and a better profile will have advantages in hiring, as they should. But moreover, whether the GPA is on the resume or just expressed on the transcript is irrelevant since the firms that care about grades will look at your transcript immediately before considering you for hire, and for the rest of them that don't care about grades it wouldn't matter anyway.

If it wasn't clear, you hand your transcript to the EIP interviewer upon entering the room. They have seconds at most to review your resume without having access to your transcript.

User avatar
John_Luther1989
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:10 am

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby John_Luther1989 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:14 am

jrc223 wrote:also, rough guess as to what gpa is top 20%, 15%, 10%, etc.?


Not relevant for CLS. You're Kent, Stone, median pwn'd, or nothing.

User avatar
smaug
Posts: 12592
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:31 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby smaug » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:25 am

John_Luther1989 wrote:
jrc223 wrote:also, rough guess as to what gpa is top 20%, 15%, 10%, etc.?


Not relevant for CLS. You're Kent, Stone, median pwn'd, or nothing.

There are cut offs between Kent and Stone for firms, but if you're near or at an A- average you've cleared most of them.

User avatar
DCfilterDC
Posts: 2665
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:30 am

I've read somewhere in here that Stone is a good rule of thumb for bidding DC. Is that true?

User avatar
John_Luther1989
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:10 am

Re: Columbia students taking questions

Postby John_Luther1989 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:45 am

DCfilterDC wrote:I've read somewhere in here that Stone is a good rule of thumb for bidding DC. Is that true?


No. OCS and general chatter makes DC out to be some super hard place to get hired, but it really isn't, even at some of the top shops. Obviously Stone+ is better than not, but even being below median isn't a kiss of death. Be smart about bidding though (i.e. don't do 25 DC and 5 NY if your grades aren't killer). Talk to people who are going to DC. A bunch of 3Ls are headed that way and a decent number of 2Ls as well.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests