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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:50 am
by nahmjun
dabigchina wrote:
nahmjun wrote:I recently got admitted via ED to Columbia and now am sitting at home wondering about the joys and glories that lie ahead (not really)

I do have a handful of questions for y'all awesome Columbia people:

1) Admission Packet & Hamilton

I know that ED applicants are usually shooed away from financial aid, but is there a chance that I may be eligible for the fellowships? I only received the admission email, and haven't received my admission packet yet... How does Hamilton/Butler work? If it isn't mentioned on my email, then no-no?
(also, any idea as to when the packet will arrive?)

2) Scholarship Grants

So I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole loan component thing. I'm not a US citizen/greencard holder so I'm not eligible for FAFSA. To receive scholarship grants, do I HAVE to take out loans? (cuz then I'd have to go through the hassle of securing a US cosigner and taking out private loan with decent interest rates...) Is there any way to receive scholarship grants and grants only? I might be able to secure the rest..

3) Recommendations on what to do before law school? I quit my internship last week and started tutoring gigs. (much more lucrative)


1. fellowships come in packets. I want to say the email should have had them too but I don't remember.
2. Columbia technically doesn't have "scholarships". You either get a fellowship or you get "need based aid" which looks strangely like scholarships. It seems weird to screw you over for not being a citizen so I would ask the finaid people.
3. Have fun. Read the guides for how to be successful in law school that are posted on these forums.


Thanks. Just on the need based aid though.

Does it HAVE to include a loan component? like, for US citizens, can you receive a need based aid without applying for loans?

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:10 am
by White Dwarf
Kraus exam done.

Bleh. Multiple choice were easier than I expected, but my answer to the essay was mediocre. The fact pattern was just too damn long for a 90 minute essay with a 1,000 word limit.

I think I did enough to hit median, but who the heck knows. I always feel God-awful after tests and it usually works out...

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:57 am
by TheoO
White Dwarf wrote:Kraus exam done.

Bleh. Multiple choice were easier than I expected, but my answer to the essay was mediocre. The fact pattern was just too damn long for a 90 minute essay with a 1,000 word limit.

I think I did enough to hit median, but who the heck knows. I always feel God-awful after tests and it usually works out...


So I guess he gave a new test? What was the multiple choice? because the one given the last few years was the same.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:22 pm
by White Dwarf
2 fact patterns, 30 MC. And I meant easier than I expected given the horror stories I read on this board. They were far from easy.

One was about an art museum trying to find a partner for some kind of artist-in-residence thing. The one museum puts down offers on properties, and then the other party backs out of the partnership, and one of the property owners sells to another buyer for more money.

The other was about an employment agreement where the CEO of the company was aware that the employee may have committed fraud, but didn't tell the board until after they had approved his promotion.

The essay was all relational contracts.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:26 pm
by jbagelboy
White Dwarf wrote:2 fact patterns, 30 MC. And I meant easier than I expected given the horror stories I read on this board. They were far from easy.

One was about an art museum trying to find a partner for some kind of artist-in-residence thing. The one museum puts down offers on properties, and then the other party backs out of the partnership, and one of the property owners sells to another buyer for more money.

The other was about an employment agreement where the CEO of the company was aware that the employee may have committed fraud, but didn't tell the board until after they had approved his promotion.

The essay was all relational contracts.


all of these are recycled.

son of a bitch.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:40 pm
by White Dwarf
And there were quite a few typos

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Are they just an intentional mind-f*** sort of thing, or is he just weirdly lazy when it comes to teaching?

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:45 pm
by Tiago Splitter
I don't know how anyone remembers those MC questions years later but if they are the same and you felt good about them I'm sure you're in great shape. I remember thinking I didn't know a god damn thing after that test. Congrats on being done with that class.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:00 pm
by jbagelboy
I remember the employer with fraudulent employee and if the relational contracts problems where firms with default names like International or Industrial corp or whatever that contracted for a certain amount of some heavy chemical product then they are the same questions from 2 yrs ago
I don't remember the art museum one specifically but the selling and purchasing of the property rings a bell
It can't be completely the same because we had 25 questions and you have 30 tho so he must have added

And yea you probably killed it, because I remember leaving thinking I'd gotten basically all of them wrong, and I kind of did since i got like 11/25

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:16 pm
by White Dwarf
Yup, that's the same relational essay Q we had. And there were 5 free-standing questions after two sets with hypos. He probably just tacked those on.

Those were pretty rough. Asked us to interpret vague legal maxims, and summarize a judge's reasoning on a case in one sentence. Reminded me of those ultra-hard LSAT Qs where two answers were basically saying the same thing with slightly different syntax.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:39 pm
by TheoO
Just know that someone last year answered only half of the issue spotter, and got an A.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:03 pm
by White Dwarf
lol, well I'm not going to get my hopes up anyway; too many super smart people in my section. I'd be fine with a good ol' B+ here.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:29 pm
by chickensoup1234
Saw this kind of question earlier in thread and wasn't answered. Would really appreciate a response, thanks a lot!

For a OL who plans on financing law school entirely through loans (less than 100K savings, no UG debt)

Cornell w./ 90K scholarship or CLS sticker?

Other info: Interested in corporate law and transactional work (specific area of interest is IP licensing), maybe arbitration. After few years in Big Law maybe move in-house to a multinational. Desired preference post-grad: 1 - DC, 2 - NYC, 3 - elsewhere on the east coast.

Would love CLS but seems sticker debt is simply too big of a hole...

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:48 pm
by TheoO
Prolly Cornell, though I chose CLS at 90 over Cornell at 160. Don't know if I made the right decision.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:53 pm
by chickensoup1234
Very much appreciated, thank you. (IMO you didn't go wrong)

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:31 am
by White Dwarf
I'd go with Cornell. That's a lot of money, and their big law placement is great. CLS has a much better LRAP, but if you're set on private sector, that doesn't matter.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:53 am
by jbagelboy
TheoO wrote:Just know that someone last year answered only half of the issue spotter, and got an A.


cause he doesn't read it

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:55 am
by jbagelboy
chickensoup1234 wrote:Saw this kind of question earlier in thread and wasn't answered. Would really appreciate a response, thanks a lot!

For a OL who plans on financing law school entirely through loans (less than 100K savings, no UG debt)

Cornell w./ 90K scholarship or CLS sticker?

Other info: Interested in corporate law and transactional work (specific area of interest is IP licensing), maybe arbitration. After few years in Big Law maybe move in-house to a multinational. Desired preference post-grad: 1 - DC, 2 - NYC, 3 - elsewhere on the east coast.

Would love CLS but seems sticker debt is simply too big of a hole...


It's way too early to make this decision. You couldn't have possibly applied for financial aid and received a decision yet from CLS. IF you got $60k from them this would be totally different. And you'll probably be able to boost your Cornell scholarship too.

Don't stress about these decisions until you have everything accounted for, and be sure to negotiate. This is too abstract.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:17 am
by TheoO
White Dwarf wrote:lol, well I'm not going to get my hopes up anyway; too many super smart people in my section. I'd be fine with a good ol' B+ here.


Im just saying: don't discount or overestimate your performance. That test is all over the place.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:24 pm
by White Dwarf
Spring 2016 schedules available on Lawnet.

I've got Bulman-Pozen for Con. Law, Briffault for Property, Harcourt for Crim., and Richman for Evidence.

Anyone have thoughts and feelings on these four? Heard goods thing about Briffault and Bulman-Pozen, but so-so things on the other two.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:53 pm
by jbagelboy
I had Briffault for 1L property and richman for evidence.

I liked richman's class, he's a good professor. I liked property fine, it was boring but briffault is a great guy and he really is a good professor on the subjects that interest him; he's just not the most psyched about intro property law.

bulman-pozen is great. congrats.

I've heard only bad things about harcourt for crim.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:11 pm
by ForgotMyPassword
Can any 3L give me an idea of the sort of movement on waitlists for mid-size 2L/3L classes? I'm #15 on the waitlist for Monaghan's Fed Courts and the class size is forty, is there any chance I make it in?

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:50 pm
by smaug
Richman sucks

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:51 pm
by smaug
ForgotMyPassword wrote:Can any 3L give me an idea of the sort of movement on waitlists for mid-size 2L/3L classes? I'm #15 on the waitlist for Monaghan's Fed Courts and the class size is forty, is there any chance I make it in?

I'm stunned that many people want to take a class with HPM. I bet he'd let people in. I would also assume that a lot of people will go the first day and then run far far away.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:20 pm
by jbagelboy
smaug wrote:Richman sucks


:(

I owe richman quite a debt so I shan't speak ill. But I'll admit his class was very poorly attended; maybe not everyone shares my positive review.

Then again, you like Monaghan.

Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:26 am
by smaug
I've heard his non evidence classes are good.

I think obsequious gunners who want clerkships should love him. Same reason they are likely to hate HPM