Columbia students taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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papercut
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby papercut » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:48 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:Is everyone in the small 30 person substantive first semester class in the same classes together all year? Excluding the 1L elective of course. My year we were only together first semester and then things split up second semester. The LPW class stayed the same but the people in it were in different schedules for everything else. Not sure if this changed.


Yup, we took all our classes with the 30 (excluding the 1L elective). And yeah I forgot about the LPW thing. Since some people will do a moot court, they won't have to take LPW in the spring. I think some LPWs got combined because they ended up being so small.

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LetsGoMets
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby LetsGoMets » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:27 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
papercut wrote:
jrc223 wrote:
papercut wrote:But you will have one small class (about 30 people) out of your first three during the fall. These will still be 30 people from your big section (100 people). You will take all classes, including the small one, with the same 12 or so people in your small section.


You had me until the 12 part -- what small section?


You'll be in a small section of about 12 for your Legal Practice Workshop class. It's our version of Legal Writing. It's a high-pass/pass/fail class that is about as hard as Legal Methods to fail. Your workload will greatly depend on your LPW professor.


One of the most crucial "keys to a happy 1L year" at CLS is to realize as early as possible that no one cares or really knows what an HP or P is in LPW; that very minimal effort is required to pass the class; and that you should only be exerting give or take that minimal effort all semester. Stressing about legal practice workshop is def top five 1L fails.

There are literally only two things you need to do. The first is actually show up most of the time to class. The second is to turn in the assignments on time, even if what you're turning in is trash. The only time I've ever seen a student risk an LP or face some other penalty was for turning stuff in late.

I highly recommend one of the specialized moot courts to replace the normal LPW class in the spring, especially one where you get to travel. It's a bit more work but it makes the whole exercise less suffocating.


Thanks, this is good to know. Any other 1L fails you recommend avoiding?

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby iamgeorgebush » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:20 pm

LetsGoMets wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
papercut wrote:
jrc223 wrote:
papercut wrote:But you will have one small class (about 30 people) out of your first three during the fall. These will still be 30 people from your big section (100 people). You will take all classes, including the small one, with the same 12 or so people in your small section.


You had me until the 12 part -- what small section?


You'll be in a small section of about 12 for your Legal Practice Workshop class. It's our version of Legal Writing. It's a high-pass/pass/fail class that is about as hard as Legal Methods to fail. Your workload will greatly depend on your LPW professor.


One of the most crucial "keys to a happy 1L year" at CLS is to realize as early as possible that no one cares or really knows what an HP or P is in LPW; that very minimal effort is required to pass the class; and that you should only be exerting give or take that minimal effort all semester. Stressing about legal practice workshop is def top five 1L fails.

There are literally only two things you need to do. The first is actually show up most of the time to class. The second is to turn in the assignments on time, even if what you're turning in is trash. The only time I've ever seen a student risk an LP or face some other penalty was for turning stuff in late.

I highly recommend one of the specialized moot courts to replace the normal LPW class in the spring, especially one where you get to travel. It's a bit more work but it makes the whole exercise less suffocating.


Thanks, this is good to know. Any other 1L fails you recommend avoiding?

Don't be a douchebag. Don't brag, don't humblebrag, and don't subtly put down others' accomplishments. Remember that your classmates will be your peers from many many years, especially if you end up practicing in New York, and they will remember you primarily for your personality, not your grades/fancy internship/LR membership/etc. So be nice!

To those considering attending CLS: Most students are not douchebags at all, so don't let my remarks above steer you away. Like any law school, there are some people who get on your nerves, but for the most part, it's good people.

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papercut
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby papercut » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:05 pm

iamgeorgebush wrote:Don't be a douchebag. Don't brag, don't humblebrag, and don't subtly put down others' accomplishments. Remember that your classmates will be your peers from many many years, especially if you end up practicing in New York, and they will remember you primarily for your personality, not your grades/fancy internship/LR membership/etc. So be nice!

To those considering attending CLS: Most students are not douchebags at all, so don't let my remarks above steer you away. Like any law school, there are some people who get on your nerves, but for the most part, it's good people.


My section was full of wonderful and extremely pleasant people. These things probably change year to year, section to section, but with a class of about 350 you're gonna see all sorts, but my experience has been very positive.

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby iamgeorgebush » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:10 am

papercut wrote:
iamgeorgebush wrote:Don't be a douchebag. Don't brag, don't humblebrag, and don't subtly put down others' accomplishments. Remember that your classmates will be your peers from many many years, especially if you end up practicing in New York, and they will remember you primarily for your personality, not your grades/fancy internship/LR membership/etc. So be nice!

To those considering attending CLS: Most students are not douchebags at all, so don't let my remarks above steer you away. Like any law school, there are some people who get on your nerves, but for the most part, it's good people.


My section was full of wonderful and extremely pleasant people. These things probably change year to year, section to section, but with a class of about 350 you're gonna see all sorts, but my experience has been very positive.

I agree with that for the most part. Like I said, for the most part, it's good people.

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zcobb
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby zcobb » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:18 pm

When do we (rising 2Ls) get our schedules for the fall?

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smaug
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby smaug » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:34 pm

zcobb wrote:When do we (rising 2Ls) get our schedules for the fall?

after EIP

by design

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MCFC
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby MCFC » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:46 pm

COURSE LOTTERY: The course lottery will be run toward the middle of August and results will be released by Monday, August 17. An e-mail notification will be sent once the lottery results are available in LAWNET. See Addendum B for an explanation of the course lottery system.


Could be earlier though? I swear I remember being asked and answering the question during EIP last year. Maybe I'm confusing it with callbacks?

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DerekZoolander
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby DerekZoolander » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:05 am

Hey guys. Just got in as a transfer from a local school.

When was/is the writing competition for transfers? Is it even worth the effort?

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby papercut » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:14 am

DerekZoolander wrote:Hey guys. Just got in as a transfer from a local school.

When was/is the writing competition for transfers? Is it even worth the effort?


Congrats on joining CLS.

Here's the info for transfer applicants:
http://columbialawreview.org/home/about ... n-process/

I can't imagine it wouldn't be worth trying, it doesn't take much time.

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DerekZoolander
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby DerekZoolander » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:17 am

papercut wrote:
DerekZoolander wrote:Hey guys. Just got in as a transfer from a local school.

When was/is the writing competition for transfers? Is it even worth the effort?


Congrats on joining CLS.

Here's the info for transfer applicants:
http://columbialawreview.org/home/about ... n-process/

I can't imagine it wouldn't be worth trying, it doesn't take much time.


Thanks for the welcome.
looks like I already missed it. No big. Thanks

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby papercut » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:20 am

DerekZoolander wrote:
papercut wrote:
DerekZoolander wrote:Hey guys. Just got in as a transfer from a local school.

When was/is the writing competition for transfers? Is it even worth the effort?


Congrats on joining CLS.

Here's the info for transfer applicants:
http://columbialawreview.org/home/about ... n-process/

I can't imagine it wouldn't be worth trying, it doesn't take much time.


Thanks for the welcome.
looks like I already missed it. No big. Thanks


It looks like you have until the 15th.

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DerekZoolander
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby DerekZoolander » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:24 am

papercut wrote:
DerekZoolander wrote:
papercut wrote:
DerekZoolander wrote:Hey guys. Just got in as a transfer from a local school.

When was/is the writing competition for transfers? Is it even worth the effort?


Congrats on joining CLS.

Here's the info for transfer applicants:
http://columbialawreview.org/home/about ... n-process/

I can't imagine it wouldn't be worth trying, it doesn't take much time.


Thanks for the welcome.
looks like I already missed it. No big. Thanks


It looks like you have until the 15th.


I see that now. Guess I'll give it a whirl. Does CLS use this submission for entry to all CLS journals? Or do others follow separate admissions processes?

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby papercut » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:25 am

Not sure how it works for transfers, but we could use the writing component for all the other journals, but the personal statement would work for only some.

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DerekZoolander
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby DerekZoolander » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:29 am

papercut wrote:Not sure how it works for transfers, but we could use the writing component for all the other journals, but the personal statement would work for only some.


Thanks, appreciate it.

As a final aside, is there any general consensus in the thread regarding how transfers *generally* perform in EIP and OCI?

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby papercut » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:37 am

DerekZoolander wrote:
papercut wrote:Not sure how it works for transfers, but we could use the writing component for all the other journals, but the personal statement would work for only some.


Thanks, appreciate it.

As a final aside, is there any general consensus in the thread regarding how transfers *generally* perform in EIP and OCI?


I'm not sure. More experienced posters than me will chime in soon I'm sure.

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby anon369 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:54 am

iamgeorgebush wrote:
papercut wrote:
iamgeorgebush wrote:Don't be a douchebag. Don't brag, don't humblebrag, and don't subtly put down others' accomplishments. Remember that your classmates will be your peers from many many years, especially if you end up practicing in New York, and they will remember you primarily for your personality, not your grades/fancy internship/LR membership/etc. So be nice!

To those considering attending CLS: Most students are not douchebags at all, so don't let my remarks above steer you away. Like any law school, there are some people who get on your nerves, but for the most part, it's good people.


My section was full of wonderful and extremely pleasant people. These things probably change year to year, section to section, but with a class of about 350 you're gonna see all sorts, but my experience has been very positive.

I agree with that for the most part. Like I said, for the most part, it's good people.


I think assuming best intentions is absolutely critical here (and in general), and recognizing that people's shittiness during 1L is a often product of their own stress, insecurity and unhappiness is a really healthy life practice and will save you a lot of angst. People can also be extraordinarily generous, kind, and compassionate at moments that you'd least expect, and that is really terrific. When it happens to you, make it a point to pay it forward.

That being said, I wish that I had been more prepared for just how isolating, judgmental, cold, and competitive the environment is. For some bizarre reason, people are extremely defensive about acknowledging this -- I'm sure someone will pounce on this to set the record straight! Most people are so "chill" and it was easy to make a group of really great supportive friends within a month! when they got sick someone let them borrow their civ pro notes, so competition at columbia is sooo not a thing.

But (in my opinion at least) this sort of response is precisely what makes it such a difficult experience. The competitive dynamic is a lot more invidious than the apocryphal 'pulling out pages from the library book', which is I think worse because its difficult to articulate and makes you feel crazy. People compete along every dimension (the battle to act like you're HAVING THE MOST FUN and DONT HAVE TO TRY THAT HARD is the worst, in my opinion). the fact that you're not allowed to acknowledge this makes for a much more isolating experience than necessary. A lot of people seem really happy at Columbia, but a lot of people are really, deeply unhappy here (and yes, I'm sure that's the case everywhere, but these are incoming cls students here) so be prepared for that, and know that you are really really really not alone if that's your experience.
Last edited by anon369 on Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:26 am

To the poster above:

I agree there's much more unhappiness and even depression beneath the surface than we acknowledge. Maybe sometimes we don't do those sentiments justice when we go on about the lack of competition and friendly environment at the law school. But we're also pretty good about mocking ourselves, the school, legal academia and our place within it (see: any law revue show). People also grow up, and 1L year brings together a unique blend of stressors that largely evaporate after EIP (which generates an unnecessary amount of anxiety. PSA: you're going to get a job). I also think that misery/unhappiness is mostly a product of the type of high achievers who are attracted to careers like law, and less anything about Columbia specifically. And people are friendly. You just have to make it work for yourself. I generally can't deal with people who take themselves too seriously and I avoid situations where I would encounter that. I also rely heavily on my support network outside the law school/morningside heights. Occasionally I rely on substance abuse. Find your coping mechanisms.

Always here to talk to anyone who is having a rough go of it, though.

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby iamgeorgebush » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:21 am

anon369 wrote: People compete along every dimension (the battle to act like you're HAVING THE MOST FUN and DONT HAVE TO TRY THAT HARD is the worst, in my opinion). the fact that you're not allowed to acknowledge this makes for a much more isolating experience than necessary.

this is on point---and it is so annoying. people too often say stuff like, "oh yeah, i didn't do any of the reading for today," but you know they read every single page.

it's okay to work hard. that doesn't mean you tell everyone that you're at the library 24/7, but don't tell everyone that you don't study at all either. both of those things are really annoying---the former makes others feel bad for not working hard enough, while the latter makes others feel bad for working too hard.

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DerekZoolander
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby DerekZoolander » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:33 pm

Since my first post got a little buried...

Does anyone know a transfer student who has had a good showing at EIP/OCI? Any insight into how they typically perform?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:38 pm

DerekZoolander wrote:Since my first post got a little buried...

Does anyone know a transfer student who has had a good showing at EIP/OCI? Any insight into how they typically perform?

I don't have any data on it but they typically do really well.

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DerekZoolander
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby DerekZoolander » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:20 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
DerekZoolander wrote:Since my first post got a little buried...

Does anyone know a transfer student who has had a good showing at EIP/OCI? Any insight into how they typically perform?

I don't have any data on it but they typically do really well.


thanks

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby DCfilterDC » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:43 am

Stupid question, but does the photo we upload for the CLS Facebook/id whatever, get used for anything important like employer resume books or something like that? Can I just take a photo in a t shirt and upload it or am I going to want to be shaved and not be in a tshirt?

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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby almondjoy » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:19 am

DCfilterDC wrote:Stupid question, but does the photo we upload for the CLS Facebook/id whatever, get used for anything important like employer resume books or something like that? Can I just take a photo in a t shirt and upload it or am I going to want to be shaved and not be in a tshirt?

Anyone who looks you up on the internal CLS database will see it. That includes students, faculty and I think alumni.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia 1L(s) taking questions

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:31 pm

almondjoy wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:Stupid question, but does the photo we upload for the CLS Facebook/id whatever, get used for anything important like employer resume books or something like that? Can I just take a photo in a t shirt and upload it or am I going to want to be shaved and not be in a tshirt?

Anyone who looks you up on the internal CLS database will see it. That includes students, faculty and I think alumni.


I think most people use a professional looking photo - not professionally done, just business or at least business casual dress, shaven, ect.




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